Does the bible ever declare that being black is a curse from God??

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RevelationTestament

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we are talking about mormon presidents and apostles calling people "negro", you only have to hear the term to know what they think of them...

Actually, the title of the thread is does the Bible talk about being black as a curse - and it does. It equates blackness, with darkness and sin, and equates whiteness with purity... just like the BOM.
If you don't like the title of your thread anymore, maybe you should give up on it.
Job 30:28 I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation.
Job 30:29 I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
Job 30:30 My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
He is saying God has loathed him, made Him sad, cursed him, and turned him black to be a hiss and a byword.

Song 1:1 The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
Song 1:2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
Song 1:3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
Song 1:4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
Song 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Song 1:6 Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.

Jer 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not יהוה in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
Jer 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
Jer 8:21 For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

Is this talking about skin color, despair or sin? The church is black compared to the righteousness of the sun. Malachi 4:2
 
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peebly63

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Actually, the title of the thread is does the Bible talk about being black as a curse - and it does. It equates blackness, with darkness and sin, and equates whiteness with purity... just like the BOM.
If you don't like the title of your thread anymore, maybe you should give up on it.
Job 30:28 I went mourning without the sun: I stood up, and I cried in the congregation.
Job 30:29 I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
Job 30:30 My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.
He is saying God has loathed him, made Him sad, cursed him, and turned him black to be a hiss and a byword.

Song 1:1 The song of songs, which is Solomon's.
Song 1:2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth: for thy love is better than wine.
Song 1:3 Because of the savour of thy good ointments thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.
Song 1:4 Draw me, we will run after thee: the king hath brought me into his chambers: we will be glad and rejoice in thee, we will remember thy love more than wine: the upright love thee.
Song 1:5 I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
Song 1:6 Look not upon me, because I am black, because the sun hath looked upon me: my mother's children were angry with me; they made me the keeper of the vineyards; but mine own vineyard have I not kept.

Jer 8:19 Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not יהוה in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
Jer 8:20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
Jer 8:21 For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.

Is this talking about skin color, despair or sin? The church is black compared to the righteousness of the sun. Malachi 4:2

none of those references say they were black because of sin or they were made black because of sin...lol

and no mention of negroes either....
 
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RevelationTestament

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none of those references say they were black because of sin or they were made black because of sin...lol

and no mention of negroes either....

Are you illiterate?
Lam 5:10 Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.
Lam 5:11 They ravished the women in Zion, and the maids in the cities of Judah.
Lam 5:12 Princes are hanged up by their hand: the faces of elders were not honoured.
Lam 5:13 They took the young men to grind, and the children fell under the wood.
Lam 5:14 The elders have ceased from the gate, the young men from their musick.
Lam 5:15 The joy of our heart is ceased; our dance is turned into mourning.
Lam 5:16 The crown is fallen from our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned!

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, יהוה cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jude 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are wicked among them of all their wicked deeds which they have wicked committed, and of all their hard speeches which wicked sinners have spoken against him.
Jude 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jude 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Master Yahushua the Messiah;
Jude 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own wicked lusts.
Jude 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

Is reference to being white racist? Is this skin color?
Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Lam 4:6 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.
Lam 4:7 Her Nazarites were purer than snow, they were whiter than milk, they were more ruddy in body than rubies, their polishing was of sapphire:
Lam 4:8 Their[daughter] visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.
 
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2ducklow

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what about indians? are indians and blacks in the same category according to old mormon beliefs? what if you're like 1/16 indian or black? same as being 100 percenter? tough questions.

I can remember when colored was the polite word to use. what if mormons had all been black? ya think they would have had the same opionon about whites that they did about blacks in old times/? thoughts to ponder. What about blacks, what if they had all been white, and whites had all been black and the blacks who changed into whites were dominant, would they have behaved differeently? the same? thoughts to blow your mind with. brain overload. ohhh what if someone developed a chemical that they could put in the water supply that would cause black people to be white, and white people to be black. oh man that would really be somethin. and what if the effects only lasted say 3 years? then you'd revert back to your original color, man that's heavy. i don't want to take it to changing sexes, that's too much fer my brain to handle. one thing though, there probably wouldn't be any racists left after 3 years. Nah i take that back, people aren't logical of course there would still be racists.
 
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williamgramsmith

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what about indians? are indians and blacks in the same category according to old mormon beliefs? what if you're like 1/16 indian or black? same as being 100 percenter? tough questions.

I can remember when colored was the polite word to use. what if mormons had all been black? ya think they would have had the same opionon about whites that they did about blacks in old times/? thoughts to ponder. What about blacks, what if they had all been white, and whites had all been black and the blacks who changed into whites were dominant, would they have behaved differeently? the same? thoughts to blow your mind with. brain overload. ohhh what if someone developed a chemical that they could put in the water supply that would cause black people to be white, and white people to be black. oh man that would really be somethin. and what if the effects only lasted say 3 years? then you'd revert back to your original color, man that's heavy. i don't want to take it to changing sexes, that's too much fer my brain to handle. one thing though, there probably wouldn't be any racists left after 3 years. Nah i take that back, people aren't logical of course there would still be racists.

1. Blacks of India, Asia, Native American's, Central South America, Islands, many of whom were JUST AS BLACK as any "African" Black WAS GIVEN THE PRIESTHOOD.

2. The ban ONLY applied to those of African Lineage, period.

3. Even some whites were denied the priesthood.

4. All other races, no matter the "color" was given the Priesthood.

5. All races in Mormonism worshiped together, there was NEVER Segregation, unlike most others.

6. Mormons were Abolitionists. In fact, a lot of the early anti-mormonism wasn't simply due to the religion, but because of their voting power compared to the locals.

- Did a mormon ever say something wrong, yes?

- Did some assume "reasons" for the Doctrine that were wrong, yes?

- Was there ever a racist Mormon, yes?

- Did Mormonism teach TOLERANCE of all races and peoples, and did/do most mormons live that way, yes?

- Did and do enemy's of Mormonism pervert some statements by LDS leaders, taking them out of context to make them say things they aren't saying, yes?

- Did and do the enemy's or Mormonism OMIT LDS history, teachings, etc. that clearly demonstrate a LACK of racism in order to make their racism claims, yes?

- Do the enemy's of Mormonism ignore the fact that racism against the black man, namely the black African ENDED the same exact time the ban was lifted, ignoring that it's likely not a coincidence, that maybe God was in charge all along, and he was waiting for the white man to get a brain, yes?
 
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joneysd

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1. Blacks of India, Asia, Native American's, Central South America, Islands, many of whom were JUST AS BLACK as any "African" Black WAS GIVEN THE PRIESTHOOD.

2. The ban ONLY applied to those of African Lineage, period.

3. Even some whites were denied the priesthood.

4. All other races, no matter the "color" was given the Priesthood.

5. All races in Mormonism worshiped together, there was NEVER Segregation, unlike most others.

6. Mormons were Abolitionists. In fact, a lot of the early anti-mormonism wasn't simply due to the religion, but because of their voting power compared to the locals.

- Did a mormon ever say something wrong, yes?

- Did some assume "reasons" for the Doctrine that were wrong, yes?

- Was there ever a racist Mormon, yes?

- Did Mormonism teach TOLERANCE of all races and peoples, and did/do most mormons live that way, yes?

- Did and do enemy's of Mormonism pervert some statements by LDS leaders, taking them out of context to make them say things they aren't saying, yes?

- Did and do the enemy's or Mormonism OMIT LDS history, teachings, etc. that clearly demonstrate a LACK of racism in order to make their racism claims, yes?

- Do the enemy's of Mormonism ignore the fact that racism against the black man, namely the black African ENDED the same exact time the ban was lifted, ignoring that it's likely not a coincidence, that maybe God was in charge all along, and he was waiting for the white man to get a brain, yes?

I have been viewing this thread for some time now and feel it is time to post, the evidence given by others, especially quoting your former apostles etc seems to prove that there was in fact a ban for black people from your priesthood and that ban seems to be on a racist reasoning.
 
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DaughterofJehovah

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I have been viewing this thread for some time now and feel it is time to post, the evidence given by others, especially quoting your former apostles etc seems to prove that there was in fact a ban for black people from your priesthood and that ban seems to be on a racist reasoning.

Not just Mormons, but ALL European Christians saw racial segregation as God-given, using Ham from the Bible, and the curse set upon him.

Joseph Smith himself was not a racist. There is also strong historical evidence showing that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black males, and he also did not believe in slavery. It wasn't until later Apostles (like Brigham Young) that brought about the common Christian belief in racial segregation and hierarchy.

Christians who are anti-Mormon speak about 'racism' in others, and yet forget about the sexist references in their Bibles. And please, don't get me started on homophobia either!

Mormon Christianity is growing rapidly among non-white populations these days. Being a Filipina and having experienced some aspects of the LDS Church (seminary, Ironrod Games, Sacrament Meetings, Relief Society, etc.), I know that they are FAR from racist attitudes!
 
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joneysd

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Not just Mormons, but ALL European Christians saw racial segregation as God-given, using Ham from the Bible, and the curse set upon him.

Joseph Smith himself was not a racist. There is also strong historical evidence showing that Joseph Smith gave the priesthood to black males, and he also did not believe in slavery. It wasn't until later Apostles (like Brigham Young) that brought about the common Christian belief in racial segregation and hierarchy.

Christians who are anti-Mormon speak about 'racism' in others, and yet forget about the sexist references in their Bibles. And please, don't get me started on homophobia either!

Mormon Christianity is growing rapidly among non-white populations these days. Being a Filipina and having experienced some aspects of the LDS Church (seminary, Ironrod Games, Sacrament Meetings, Relief Society, etc.), I know that they are FAR from racist attitudes!

I don't think the bible is racist and i think that point has been argued round and round.

there has been plenty of evidence of the LDS making clear racist remarks, I think that much has been clearly shown, it is correct that the priesthood was witheld from blacks until 1978.

whether Joseph Smith himself said anything racist I would have to research further but later prophets definitely did and their claim was this came from God which to me is very disturbing.

the comments on sexist scripture and homosexuality are topics for a separate thread perhaps.
 
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fatboys

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I don't think the bible is racist and i think that point has been argued round and round.

there has been plenty of evidence of the LDS making clear racist remarks, I think that much has been clearly shown, it is correct that the priesthood was witheld from blacks until 1978.

whether Joseph Smith himself said anything racist I would have to research further but later prophets definitely did and their claim was this came from God which to me is very disturbing.

the comments on sexist scripture and homosexuality are topics for a separate thread perhaps.

As has been explained over and over again, and you fail to grasp it a racist is someone who has such feelings toward a particular race that they feel they are of a lower or subhuman being. Never did any church leader place those of the negro race as a subhuman. They were never denied entrance into the church and the opportunity to progress. They were never taught that they could not reach the highest of the eternal opportunities as any other race or any other color of skin. It was not because of skin color as to the ban. It was because of lineage. Now that has been lifted. Enough said.
 
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joneysd

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As has been explained over and over again, and you fail to grasp it a racist is someone who has such feelings toward a particular race that they feel they are of a lower or subhuman being. Never did any church leader place those of the negro race as a subhuman. They were never denied entrance into the church and the opportunity to progress. They were never taught that they could not reach the highest of the eternal opportunities as any other race or any other color of skin. It was not because of skin color as to the ban. It was because of lineage. Now that has been lifted. Enough said.

they were denied the priesthood till 1978.
 
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RevelationTestament

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I don't think the bible is racist and i think that point has been argued round and round.
No, it is not, but it uses black/dark and white/pure the same way the Book of Mormon does.

there has been plenty of evidence of the LDS making clear racist remarks, I think that much has been clearly shown, it is correct that the priesthood was witheld from blacks until 1978.
And if you research history, you will find the same kind of remarks made about the mark of Cain among basically all Protestant sects. Guess where LDS converts came from? These same sects. So people with these attitudes came into the LDS church. But the LDS didn't practice segregation. We didn't make blacks sit in separate churches. We didn't practice slavery. We didn't persecute blacks or Indians like Protestants, yet they now come here and make LDS out to be the bad guys. We didn't promote slavery like Calvinist preachers and Baptists, etc.

U.S. slavery was probably the worst that ever existed.
Slavery
Race and Slavery in America
February 28th, 2009

When I was writing “Eric Holder and Cowards” a couple of days ago, I was looking for sources when I came across a 1965 Department of Labor document titled “The Negro Family: The Case For National Action.” This document, also known as the “Moynihan Report,” was written by Daniel Patrick Moynihan when he was an Assistant Secretary of Labor. (His small staff included a very young Ralph Nader.)

I’ve heard of the “Moynihan Report” and read quotes from it, but I had never seen the entire document. I found it to be interesting, enlightening, and prescient. It’s the source of the often-quoted (and sometimes misquoted) Moynihan statement,

The steady expansion of this welfare program [ADC], as of public assistance programs in general, can be taken as a measure of the steady disintegration of the Negro family structure over the past generation in the United States. (Chapter II)

Not only was Moynihan right in 1965, every year since has seen his observation re-validated. He was called a racist then for stating the truth as he saw it, and despite the accuracy of his observation, there are still those who attack him.

There’s also another statement in the Moynihan Report that was true then, when I had just entered the Army and could see things for myself, and it’s true today:

Service in the United States Armed Forces is the only experience open to the Negro American in which he is truly treated as an equal: not as a Negro equal to a white, but as one man equal to any other man in a world where the category “Negro” and “white” do not exist. If this is a statement of the ideal rather than reality, it is an ideal that is close to realization. In food, dress, housing, pay, work — the Negro in the Armed Forces is equal and is treated that way. (Chapter IV)
What I found most informative was a discussion of why slavery in America was worse than in other places in our hemisphere and what the impact of that difference has been. About 12,000,000 African slaves were brought to the New World via the hellish “middle passage” over a period of about 400 years. About 645,000 (5 percent) came first to the British colonies in North America and then to what had become the U.S. The U.S., which outlawed the importation of slaves in 1807, permitted legal slavery for a total of about 85 years. From the “Moynihan Report:”

The most perplexing question about American slavery, which has never been altogether explained, and which indeed most Americans hardly know exists, has been stated by Nathan Glazer as follows: “Why was American slavery the most awful the world has ever known?” The only thing that can be said with certainty is that this is true: it was.
American slavery was profoundly different from, and in its lasting effects on individuals and their children, indescribably worse than, any recorded servitude, ancient or modern. The peculiar nature of American slavery was noted by Alexis de Tocqueville and others, but it was not until 1948 that Frank Tannenbaum, a South American specialist, pointed to the striking differences between Brazilian and American slavery. The feudal, Catholic society of Brazil had a legal and religious tradition which accorded the slave a place as a human being in the hierarchy of society — a luckless, miserable place, to be sure, but a place withal. In contrast, there was nothing in the tradition of English law or Protestant theology which could accommodate to the fact of human bondage — the slaves were therefore reduced to the status of chattels — often, no doubt, well cared for, even privileged chattels, but chattels nevertheless.
Glazer, also focusing on the Brazil-United States comparison, continues.
“In Brazil, the slave had many more rights than in the United States: he could legally marry, he could, indeed had to, be baptized and become a member of the Catholic Church, his family could not be broken up for sale, and he had many days on which he could either rest or earn money to buy his freedom. The Government encouraged manumission, and the freedom of infants could often be purchased for a small sum at the baptismal font. In short: the Brazilian slave knew he was a man, and that he differed in degree, not in kind, from his master.”
“[In the United States,] the slave was totally removed from the protection of organized society (compare the elaborate provisions for the protection of slaves in the Bible), his existence as a human being was given no recognition by any religious or secular agency, he was totally ignorant of and completely cut off from his past, and he was offered absolutely no hope for the future. His children could be sold, his marriage was not recognized, his wife could be violated or sold (there was something comic about calling the woman with whom the master permitted him to live a ‘wife’), and he could also be subject, without redress, to frightful barbarities — there were presumably as many sadists among slaveowners, men and women, as there are in other groups. The slave could not, by law, be taught to read or write; he could not practice any religion without the permission of his master, and could never meet with his fellows, for religious or any other purposes, except in the presence of a white; and finally, if a master wished to free him, every legal obstacle was used to thwart such action. This was not what slavery meant in the ancient world, in medieval and early modern Europe, or in Brazil and the West Indies.
“More important, American slavery was also awful in its effects. If we compared the present situation of the American Negro with that of, let us say, Brazilian Negroes (who were slaves 20 years longer), we begin to suspect that the differences are the result of very different patterns of slavery. Today the Brazilian Negroes are Brazilians; though most are poor and do the hard and dirty work of the country, as Negroes do in the United States, they are not cut off from society. They reach into its highest strata, merging there — in smaller and smaller numbers, it is true, but with complete acceptance — with other Brazilians of all kinds. The relations between Negroes and whites in Brazil show nothing of the mass irrationality that prevails in this country.”
Stanley M. Elkins, drawing on the aberrant behavior of the prisoners in Nazi concentration camps, drew an elaborate parallel between the two institutions. This thesis has been summarized as follows by Thomas Pettigrew:
“Both were closed systems, with little chance of manumission, emphasis on survival, and a single, omnipresent authority. The profound personality change created by Nazi internment, as independently reported by a number of psychologists and psychiatrists who survived, was toward childishness and total acceptance of the SS guards as father-figures — a syndrome strikingly similar to the ‘Sambo’ caricature of the Southern slave. Nineteenth-century racists readily believed that the ‘Sambo’ personality was simply an inborn racial type. Yet no African anthropological data have ever shown any personality type resembling Sambo; and the concentration camps molded the equivalent personality pattern in a wide variety of Caucasian prisoners. Nor was Sambo merely a product of ‘slavery’ in the abstract, for the less devastating Latin American system never developed such a type.
“Extending this line of reasoning, psychologists point out that slavery in all its forms sharply lowered the need for achievement in slaves… Negroes in bondage, stripped of their African heritage, were placed in a completely dependent role. All of their rewards came, not from individual initiative and enterprise, but from absolute obedience — a situation that severely depresses the need for achievement among all peoples. Most important of all, slavery vitiated family life… Since many slaveowners neither fostered Christian marriage among their slave couples nor hesitated to separate them on the auction block, the slave household often developed a fatherless matrifocal (mother-centered) pattern.”
With the emancipation of the slaves, the Negro American family began to form in the United States on a widespread scale. But it did so in an atmosphere markedly different from that which has produced the white American family.
The Negro was given liberty, but not equality. Life remained hazardous and marginal. Of the greatest importance, the Negro male, particularly in the South, became an object of intense hostility, an attitude unquestionably based in some measure of fear.
When Jim Crow made its appearance towards the end of the 19th century, it may be speculated that it was the Negro male who was most humiliated thereby; the male was more likely to use public facilities, which rapidly became segregated once the process began, and just as important, segregation, and the submissiveness it exacts, is surely more destructive to the male than to the female personality. Keeping the Negro “in his place” can be translated as keeping the Negro male in his place: the female was not a threat to anyone. (Chapter III)

Articles written by Tom Carter


If one wants to see terrible injustice and slavery perpetrated on a people one need look no further than Protestant religions who were the persecutors of not only LDS, but Indians and Blacks
 
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joneysd

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of course darkness and light are used for references to good and evil, there is clearly no problem with that.

When the LDS declare God says that blacks are banned from a priesthood that is totally different, you can paint it anyway you like but it is pure and simple racism and blamed upon God it is blasphemous.
 
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RevelationTestament

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of course darkness and light are used for references to good and evil, there is clearly no problem with that.

When the LDS declare God says that blacks are banned from a priesthood that is totally different, you can paint it anyway you like but it is pure and simple racism and blamed upon God it is blasphemous.
They weren't banned. The first to clearly say anything on the subject, Brigham Young, also said they would receive the priesthood but would be last to do so. That is not necessarily a bad thing in the gospel. "And the last shall be first, and the first last, for many are called but few chosen."
Now God "banned" various ethnic groups from the house of the Lord for various period of time - that is Biblical.
God "banned" women from the priesthood, but I don't see you jumping up and down and calling Him sexist.
 
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