Does anyone know the true reason why they don't allow any other people or priests too than those there to see the miracle of the light that happens every year, while they allow anyone to touch the holy flame?
The holy fire/light on the holy saturday in the holy tomb in Jerusalem
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Does anyone know the true reason why they don't allow any other people or priests too than those there to see the miracle of the light that happens every year, while they allow anyone to touch the holy flame?
rusmeister
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They fly it into Moscow, and people waiting spread it around as many of the churches in the region as they can. They brought it into our church. The transportation device looked like an old lantern head right out of any Victorian-era story. The fire itself looked small and stable; it didn't flicker much.
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no there are priests that go there if you are asking. but the one who is allowed in the tomb is the Patriarch of Jerusalem, because he is the bishop of that Church. I think other EO bishops have done it in the past though.
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I think that ArmyMatt understands my question more, I mean why do they allow to transfer the flame for the people, and they do not allow anyone to be present when the miracle happens every year inside the tomb?
And if I go further, why don't they put a camera there for the world?
An archimandrite hid in the holy tomb once and he wrote a book about it I SAW THE HOLY LIGHT
And if I go further, why don't they put a camera there for the world?
An archimandrite hid in the holy tomb once and he wrote a book about it I SAW THE HOLY LIGHT
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I would imagine that not everything is for everyone's eyes. The Patriarch is searched for anything that could begin a fire, usually by non-Orthodox, I believe. Only the high priest was allowed into the Holy of Holies.
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buzuxi02
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As Matt explained, the Patriarch is the archbishop of Jerusalem, so it is his duty to celebrate the ceremony and retrieve the fire. It is also an Eastern Orthodox liturgy, it would be like substituting the pope of Rome with a baptist minister to celebrate Mass in the Vatican.
On a minor note the Armenians differ on the dating of Pascha 4 times every 532 years. During one of those years that Pascha differed the Armenian bishop decided to celebrate the Pascha Liturgy and try to retrieve the Holy Light himself. A flash burst forth splitting the marble column, this fissure in the column against the tomb can be viewed today but no candles were lighted.
Who knows someday a camera may indeed be placed in the tomb.
On a minor note the Armenians differ on the dating of Pascha 4 times every 532 years. During one of those years that Pascha differed the Armenian bishop decided to celebrate the Pascha Liturgy and try to retrieve the Holy Light himself. A flash burst forth splitting the marble column, this fissure in the column against the tomb can be viewed today but no candles were lighted.
Who knows someday a camera may indeed be placed in the tomb.
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ikonographics
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The marble column was split when the Armenians locked out the Greek Orthodox patriarch and tried to receive the light themselved. The patriarch was standing by the column and the fire came from the column and lit his candles and not the Armenians. This miracle is proof of the truth of the Orthodox faith. The Holy Fire will only descend when the Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem reads the prayers.
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well, the Tomb before hand is searched, cleaned, and made sure that no one can light a match. the same is done with the bishop. the door is then locked, sealed with wax, and a guard is posted.
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rusmeister
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There is simply no way for humans to successfully pull off a scam for a thousand years. That is more improbable than any miracle, even a Virgin birth.
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for now there are two reason that we think:
For me I can also think about a reason: Matthew 15:26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." 27 "Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." 28 Then Jesus said to her, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed at that moment.
but does anyone know if the church there ever said a statement why they don't allow anyone to see the miracle when it happens?
For me I can also think about a reason: Matthew 15:26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to the dogs." 27 "Yes it is, Lord," she said. "Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table." 28 Then Jesus said to her, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed at that moment.
but does anyone know if the church there ever said a statement why they don't allow anyone to see the miracle when it happens?
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I would like to add ideas according to those two words and according to the verses that I said in Matthew 15.
why not choose a few number of sick people every year and they go in a period of spiritual preparation like a month before the date of the miracle, and they put a camera only for those sick people that were prepared for it.
I am sure that with the preparation that is important a lot of those people will get healed when the miracle happens because as we know it is the faith that heals right? I mean the faith has a very important role when God heals that Jesus asked a lot before that he healed them Do you believe? Mark 6:5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith...
So according to the example that I said in Matthew 15 why do they keep the bread for them and they give the crumbs for us/for anyone? Did they say a reason? I think that the blind will be healed.
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I wish that it was like that but:
Mark 4:21 He said to them, “Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don’t you put it on its stand? 22 For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. 23 If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear.”
24 “Consider carefully what you hear,” he continued. “With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more. 25 Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.”
So again I think that they give the crumbs and not the bread or the lamp, and I do not know why...
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rusmeister
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A thought to add to this one, on the idea of a perpetual, successful scam:
From GKC's Father Brown:
.
So it is with the idea of a thousand-year old scam.
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-Kyriaki-
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I really think you're missing the point here. The point is that the light is given and then distributed throughout the whole world. It isn't for healing. It isn't for anything else. It's a miracle, and it occurs the way that it always has, because that's what's been happening for a couple thousand years.
Not crumbs...the true miracle as it has always been given.
Also, I have no idea where your thing about healing is coming from, because that's not something I've ever heard associated with the miracle anyway. There are other things that healings DO happen with...but not this.
Not crumbs...the true miracle as it has always been given.
Also, I have no idea where your thing about healing is coming from, because that's not something I've ever heard associated with the miracle anyway. There are other things that healings DO happen with...but not this.
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