Non-denominational is the way to go I think BUT

Telrunya · May 2, 2013

I was raised a Catholic, Have gone to (And by that I mean for a year or more) Assemblies of God, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist, and Non Denominational churches over the years. I understand where you are coming from when you say following the two Great Commandments is what it takes. That's great for those who need milk. The problems come in for those who need meat to grow (See Hebrews 5:11-14). That is the point where denominations arose. Now while we are all sinners and if you find a perfect church you shouldn't go there lest you screw it up, some denominations are actually approving of sins, condoning them if you will by official recognition. As I said we are all sinners and all churches should welcome in sinners, but if we live in unrepentant sin we are not to serve in the church. How can we have a meeting of the minds when the vast chasm of doctrinal beliefs of condoning sins and those that hold to the more traditional views lay between us? You can't. That doesn't even begin to touch the minor differences such as dunking or sprinkling, taking part in Communion, even how to take Communion (IE right hand over the left ect...) For some people these aren't stumbling blocks and it's no big deal, for others it is a stumbling block. For these minor differences there is no denying the salvation of those who don't see things your way and no reason why one church can't emphasize one thing while another church emphasizing another. denominations are not Christ divided in that respect but the many parts of the Body each doing it's own part. A leg cannot be a hand and an ear can't be a mouth.

xXMikHaelXx · May 2, 2013

"I was raised a Catholic, Have gone to (And by that I mean for a year or more) Assemblies of God, Lutheran, Methodist, Episcopalian, Baptist, and Non Denominational churches over the years. I understand where you are coming from when you say following the two Great Commandments is what it takes. That's great for those who need milk."

I've taken it a step further - I've looked into different denominations within the church to get an idea of how the body of Christ views itself - and then I went into the secular community. I've read the Satanic Bible - read books on Wiccans and Pegans - sat down with Atheists - spoken to Spiritualists - etc. Just so I could get any idea of how THEY view the Body of Christ.

Most of their claims are justified when they have criticism. Although the entire body may not be doing something wrong - there is one part of the body that is and the only thing they see is the body as a whole. This is where denominations are making it harder to evangelize. I've had people assume something about me as a Christian because of something they heard about *insert denomination here*...

"I understand where you are coming from when you say following the two Great Commandments is what it takes. That's great for those who need milk."

They are the greatest Commandments - nothing will ever change that. My issue is that there are some who get so wrapped up in righteousness and abiding in the "law" that they begin looking like Pharisee's and completely forget about those two commandments. They go at people as if it were their obligation to rid them of sin - because they see themselves righteous enough to do so.

Here's another issue with denominations NOT being a divided body. I'm a street minister - I hang around college campuses and the unsavory parts of town - I'm tattooed, pierced, my fair is funny colors, and the side of my head is shaved. People out there and some churches don't have an issue with me but some have MAJOR issues with me.

So as I'm there preaching to people - the hands/eyes/ears of Christ as very supportive of me BUT then I have the foot sometimes walk up and start kicking me. It's very very hard to explain something like that to a new christian. As a result they get torn on what to believe - is this funny looking woman speaking the truth or is that foot over there the correct one? If the foot is the whole body then everything they feared about Christians becomes true and what I'm telling them suddenly goes out the window.

Imagine walking up to someone and telling them that God loves them and He wants to know them - then having a SUV drive by and scream at you that you're going to hell and you need to read your bible. You've just finished gushing about the love and compassion found within Christ and all of that goes out the window because a denomination has an issue with how people dress.

yogosans14 · May 2, 2013

Thats why I'm converting to Catholicism, its so unified and has a long history and the early Church fathers believed in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist!

xXMikHaelXx · May 2, 2013

yogosans14 said:
Thats why I'm converting to Catholicism, its so unified and has a long history and the early Church fathers believed in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist!

Lol, okay?

Well I think I shall stick outside denomination. I have this weird thing against labels.

GrayJM9 · May 2, 2013

Mikhael I think me and you are really alike.

GrayJM9 · May 2, 2013

yogosans14 said:
Thats why I'm converting to Catholicism, its so unified and has a long history and the early Church fathers believed in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist!

But be aware of the hypocrisy of the modern Catholic church.

xXMikHaelXx · May 2, 2013

GrayJM9 said:
But be aware of the hypocrisy of the modern Catholic church.

Lol I think there is hypocrisy everywhere, even in the secular world - it's just a matter of finding the least amount of hypocrisy.

Handmaid for Jesus · May 3, 2013

I think being of no denomination frees us to celebrate the great diversity within the church body. Everyone is not a hand.Everyone is not a foot. And so on and so on. There are great gifts and talents scattered within the church, and we can partake in that great blessing without getting angry because everyone is not a hand, or a foot. If we think about the human body and look at the multitude of it's parts, we can see that it takes all of it to work properly. What denominations do is group people who are hands in one corner and group people who are feet in the other corner and they fight about who is more right. That is really why I think no denomination can have all of the truth. But, I understand the reason why this is done. I guess you could say that birds of a feather flock together. LOL. All joking aside though, what needs to be understood, imho, is that God is changing us into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit in us. The more we submit to Him and follow the two commandments about love, the more we are changed. The Bible tells us to be not conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. The Holy Scriptures are there to teach us His Way. Now when we have the mind of Christ, we tend to do what He did/does. The word of God should be our plumb line, our standard if you will, to living a holy life. But our flesh will rebel because it is enmity against God and it wars against the dictates of the Spirit. That is why we must submit daily, confess our sins, ask for forgiveness, and forgive. Our Lord Jesus is so faithful to forgive our sins, and He will cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Being free to fellowship with believers across denominational lines should enrich our experience/journey to being made perfect in Jesus. I heard a preacher once who encouraged his congregation to visit other denominations. He said eat the wheat and spit out the husk then come on back home. LOL. I thought that was very funny, and very novel. But I really think that is how it should be since I don't believe any one denomination has a lock on the truth. Jesus Christ is what we need. We need to understand the living Jesus Christ, that He lives in us who believe in Him, that He will transform and cleanse us, no matter the denomination.

Tigger45 · May 4, 2013

I liked it when you said your pastor encouraged the congregation about visiting other denominations. While instructing you guys to spit out the husks. A bible believing and teaching church grounding it's congregation in the essentials of orthodox christianity can be more confident in exploring the buffet of christianity without getting sick.

I used to attend an independant charismatic church in a town where our sister congregation was non-charismatic. The local newspaper evan printed a story about our church affiliation. As congregations we got together often. Expecially for community events. And if either pastor was out of town that congregation would just meet at the other congregations church building for Sunday worship.

Handmaid for Jesus said:
I think being of no denomination frees us to celebrate the great diversity within the church body. Everyone is not a hand.Everyone is not a foot. And so on and so on. There are great gifts and talents scattered within the church, and we can partake in that great blessing without getting angry because everyone is not a hand, or a foot. If we think about the human body and look at the multitude of it's parts, we can see that it takes all of it to work properly. What denominations do is group people who are hands in one corner and group people who are feet in the other corner and they fight about who is more right. That is really why I think no denomination can have all of the truth. But, I understand the reason why this is done. I guess you could say that birds of a feather flock together. LOL. All joking aside though, what needs to be understood, imho, is that God is changing us into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ through the indwelling Holy Spirit in us. The more we submit to Him and follow the two commandments about love, the more we are changed. The Bible tells us to be not conformed to the world, but be transformed by the renewing of our minds. The Holy Scriptures are there to teach us His Way. Now when we have the mind of Christ, we tend to do what He did/does. The word of God should be our plumb line, our standard if you will, to living a holy life. But our flesh will rebel because it is enmity against God and it wars against the dictates of the Spirit. That is why we must submit daily, confess our sins, ask for forgiveness, and forgive. Our Lord Jesus is so faithful to forgive our sins, and He will cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Being free to fellowship with believers across denominational lines should enrich our experience/journey to being made perfect in Jesus. I heard a preacher once who encouraged his congregation to visit other denominations. He said eat the wheat and spit out the husk then come on back home. LOL. I thought that was very funny, and very novel. But I really think that is how it should be since I don't believe any one denomination has a lock on the truth. Jesus Christ is what we need. We need to understand the living Jesus Christ, that He lives in us who believe in Him, that He will transform and cleanse us, no matter the denomination.

candle glow · May 4, 2013

Lol I think there is hypocrisy everywhere, even in the secular world - it's just a matter of finding the least amount of hypocrisy.

Nice. ^.^

I liked it when you said your pastor encouraged the congregation about visiting other denominations. While instructing you guys to spit out the husks.

I also think learning about other denominations is a good idea; reminds me of chewing the meat and spitting out the bones.

Jesus described the spirit as being like the wind, blowing where ever it wants to and John talked about each of us needing to walk in all the light that we have. Denominations can be helpful when it comes to organization and structure, but invariably people become fixated on traditions/rituals and miss the bigger picture.

yogosans14 · May 5, 2013

GrayJM9 said:
But be aware of the hypocrisy of the modern Catholic church.

Where is the hypocrisy in the RCC?

candle glow · May 7, 2013

Mikhael had it right when she said that hypocrisy is everywhere. Learning to recognize that is an important part of being non-denominational.

By "everywhere" I assume she means in ourselves, as well. The important thing is to learn to judge ourselves, first and then we'll see more clearly how to fairly judge the world around us.

Thought, I think it's not such a black/white issue, since we'll never be able to judge ourselves to the point that we are perfect, which means we'll never be able to perfectly judge others around us, and yet, I think God still wants us to try to practice fair judgment.

So someone can say, "beware hypocrisy in the RCC", which is a fair statement, but then again, we could (and probably should) make the same statement about ANY group.

Alithis · May 8, 2013

xXMikHaelXx said:
Lol - people are really stuck on that angel thing huh?

You don't have to accept my claim - I've never been forceful on that point.

I think every person should be allowed their own beliefs but they should be fully convinced of them within their own hearts.

"One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living."

The love commandments are more directed at the quarreling between the denominations. I've seen Baptists and Methodists go at each-other like two rabid dogs - or a Catholic and a Lutheran unable to stay in the same room with each other without arguing.

I'm not sure what the cause is for so much offence on this forum. I was simply quoting Paul - saying that there's too much quarreling going on and it sometimes confuses and puts off the secular community.

just to clarify - so your are now admitting that you are not "an angel incarnate " .. ?

Alithis · May 8, 2013

candle glow said:
Mikhael had it right when she said that hypocrisy is everywhere. Learning to recognize that is an important part of being non-denominational.

By "everywhere" I assume she means in ourselves, as well. The important thing is to learn to judge ourselves, first and then we'll see more clearly how to fairly judge the world around us.

Thought, I think it's not such a black/white issue, since we'll never be able to judge ourselves to the point that we are perfect, which means we'll never be able to perfectly judge others around us, and yet, I think God still wants us to try to practice fair judgment.

So someone can say, "beware hypocrisy in the RCC", which is a fair statement, but then again, we could (and probably should) make the same statement about ANY group.

yup yup.. let us always reword that to.. beware hypocrisy ,in our own hearts

xXMikHaelXx · May 8, 2013

michaelmynameIs said:
just to clarify - so your are now admitting that you are not "an angel incarnate " .. ?

No - I said I don't care if people believe that "claim".

xXMikHaelXx · May 8, 2013

michaelmynameIs said:
yup yup.. let us always reword that to.. beware hypocrisy ,in our own hearts

Foam at the mouth - stomp your feet - set traps - and try to discredit...

Indeed we should look for hypocrisy within our own hears.

candle glow · May 8, 2013

I get the feeling that Mikhael suspects she is being singled out (either by Michael or myself, or maybe both of us) regarding the hypocrisy thing. I didn't mean it towards any one person in particular.

I thought it was good that she pointed out that hypocrisy can be found anywhere.

xXMikHaelXx · May 8, 2013

candle glow said:
I get the feeling that Mikhael suspects she is being singled out (either by Michael or myself, or maybe both of us) regarding the hypocrisy thing. I didn't mean it towards any one person in particular.

I thought it was good that she pointed out that hypocrisy can be found anywhere.

I didn't feel singled out by you but Michael likes to tag-along into other threads because of disagreements we've had in other threads and go after me for something I've said there.

I think hypocrisy is all over the place.

"Mastering others is strength, mastering yourself makes you fearless." - this is my motto - I even have it tattooed on my back.

I think we should be ever searching for hypocrisy within our own lives.

candle glow · May 9, 2013

I think we should be ever searching for hypocrisy within our own lives.

Agreed. ^.^

Any practical tips on how to do this?

"Mastering others is strength, mastering yourself makes you fearless." - this is my motto - I even have it tattooed on my back.

It sounds a bit daunting. What does it mean?

xXMikHaelXx · May 9, 2013

candle glow said:
Agreed. ^.^

Any practical tips on how to do this?

It sounds a bit daunting. What does it mean?

Indeed

and my tips are in my motto-

For me it means that you can dominate others in your judgement of them - breaking them down by picking at their flaws, using their weaknesses to give yourself power but it takes a truly fearless person to use that same judgement on yourself - picking at your own flaws to better yourself.

What "power" is to be gained from breaking others down? If your strength is nothing but their flaws then your strength is an illusion. If your strength comes from within then you are truly strong.

Non-denominational is the way to go I think BUT

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