the 1000 year rule

brinny said:

What's dispensationalism?

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RevelationTestament said:

Actually each day of the creation is a type for the thousand year periods. Each of the 7 seals represent a thousand years starting with Adam and the Adamic covenant.
Then Noah around 3000 B.C. and the Noahic covenant. Then around 2000 B.C. and the Abrahamic covenant. Then around 1000 B.C. and the Davidic Covenant. Then around 0 A.D. and the New covenant or covenant of grace. The last is the Sabbath or day of rest for the Hebrews. Starting 2000 A.D.

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Here's what Hebrews adds to the subject:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

brinny said:

Thanks, that sorta' helped.

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Many dispensationalists basically believe that there will be 7,000 of human history and that the final 1,000 years will be the millennial period of rest.

We are currently at 6,000 years of human history so in this theory the millennium is coming soon.

RevelationTestament said:

Here's what Hebrews adds to the subject:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

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Yes, that rest is now. It is the rest that we enter into by faith in Jesus Christ.

brinny said:

What's dispensationalism?

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I am dispensationalist.
Dispensations represent dispensations of the gospel. As time passed God kept adding more to the Word, and kept revealing more to man. This is still ongoing. In Revelation the mystery of God is finished after the 2 witnesses speak.
Most Prostestants hold to the view that God is done with prophets, and will not add anymore to His Word, but the 2 witnesses of Revelation refute this view.
Noah was the head of a dispensation. God decreed the world had become evil so started over with a new covenant to Noah - remember the token of the rainbow?
Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Noah unto Him.

RevelationTestament said:

Here's what Hebrews adds to the subject:

Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

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Further evidence that the rest is now:

Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

brinny said:

from my very limited understanding of Revelation, it does seem like Jesus is coming soon...considering world events, etc. and what Jesus said about the signs of His coming...

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We don't know when the Lord will return.

It could be tomorrow...it could be in another ten thousand years.

PreachingChristCrucified said:

Yes, that rest is now. It is the rest that we enter into by faith in Jesus Christ.

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Yes, some are entering this rest - those of Ephraim, and a few others.

Isa 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.
Isa 61:7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
Isa 61:9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.

brinny said:

True, as Jesus said, no one knows the day or time, only the Father does. Jesus did say however that there would bbe signs of HIs coming. It is also written that as the time gets closer there will be more and more evil.

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I do not know the day, but I know that He will not physically return to the earth until the Father's work is finished, and that is not for hundreds of years. That does not mean there is no resurrection. Notice that the 2 witnesses are resurrected, and their dead bodies rise up into "heaven" after 3 days. Those who believe will be resurrected too. Jesus is coming to the Gentiles as a thief - some will be transfigured from the field while others are left.

RevelationTestament said:

Yes, some are entering this rest - those of Ephraim, and a few others.

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What a bunch of bunkum. Those who have faith in Jesus Christ are entering his rest.

PreachingChristCrucified said:

What a bunch of bunkum. Those who have faith in Jesus Christ are entering his rest.

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Would that be Judah?
I'd be surprised if even 1% of Judah has entered His rest. Many Gentiles are of Ephraim. Ephraim was the head of many nations. It's not bunkum at all but can be shown through scripture. But now I have to go.

Here is another prophetic translation rule for Daniel and part of Revelation.

Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

So we see for instance in Daniel, the 70 wks of Daniel 9 become 490 years to prepare for the messiah.

Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah [Anointed one] the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall even in troublous times. And after threescore (60) and two weeks shall Messiah be cutoff, but not for himself: and the people of the prince [Rome] that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [Titus destroyed the temple]; and the end thereof shall be with a flood [again a flood being the workings of Satan in men], and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week [3 1/2 days or years] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation [the END], and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. [The last sentence has also been interpreted as: "and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator." Oxford Annotated Bible] Daniel 9:24-7.

I will start by saying Rome is the abomination which maketh desolate. The Roman Church is the Great Harlot and Mother of Abominations of the Earth. At the decreed end the desolator will receive the judgments of Revelation 18. Now let us determine when the 70 weeks start. After Nebuchadnezzar destroyed Jerusalem, the Hebrews returned to Jerusalem in two main migrations, but Daniel stayed in the capitol of the Persians. The first migration under Zerubbabel had commission to rebuild the Temple [known as the Temple of Zerubbabel]. The commission came through king Cyrus of Persia in his first year to build an house at Jerusalem to the LORD God. Cyrus the king brought the vessels of gold and silver king Nebuchadnezzar had taken, and gave them to Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah (Zerubbabel), to be taken to Jerusalem. Ezra 1. Zerubbabel led forth the families listed in Ezra 2 to Judah. By the seventh month the people were in their cities, and gathered in Jerusalem where Zerubbabel directed them first in building an altar. Then according to the grant of Cyrus king of Persia, they began collecting wood and materials to rebuild the Temple. Ezra 3. Apparently the rebuilding effort stopped or slowed during the eight year reign of Cambyses. In the sixth month of the second year of Darius the spirit of the LORD was stirred in Zerubbabel through the words of Haggai, to finish the Temple. Apparently, by this time Zerubbabel was recognized as governor of Judah. Haggai 1. The Temple was finished under Darius, king of Persia (who renewed the decree of Cyrus or possibly Darius II), on the third day of the month Adar in the sixth year of Darius. Ezra 6. The second migration returned under Ezra, the scribe, who left Babylon the first day of the first month in the seventh year of king Artaxerxes, who ruled after Darius I, and therefore after Daniel's account. Ezra 7:7-9. They were commissioned by the LORD and king Artaxerxes to beautify the Temple by a letter found in Ezra 7.

However, in the twentieth year of king Artaxerxes, Nehemiah learned of the troublous times of his people: "The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire." Nehemiah 1:1-3. King Artaxerxes saw his troubled countenance, and Nehemiah told him it was because Jerusalem lay waste, and the gates lay burnt. So the king prepared a letter to the keeper of his forest to cut timber for the rebuilding, and sent Nehemiah to Jerusalem. Nehemiah 2:1-8. When he arrived, he found the city in a state of waste. He told the people what God had put in his heart to do, and called the people to rebuild. Nehemiah 2:17-8. But these were troublous times. When the Arabians, the Ammonites, the Ashdodites, and Tobiah, and Sanballat heard of the rebuilding, they came to fight against Jerusalem, so Nehemiah "...set the people after their families with their swords, their spears, and their bows." Nehemiah 4:7,8,13. "So the wall was finished in the twenty and fifth day of the month Elul, in fifty and two days." Nehemiah 6:15. "Now the city was large and great: but the people were few therein, and the houses were not builded." Nehemiah 7:4.

Cyrus II (the Great) reigned from 549-530 B.C.; Cambyses II from 530-522 B.C.; Darius from 522-486 B.C.; and Xerxes from 486-465 B.C. The commandment to rebuild the walls and the city was to Nehemiah in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes. Artaxerxes I ruled from 465 B.C. to 424 B.C.[1] His twentieth year was 445 B.C. This is about when Old Testament prophecy stopped. This is the beginning of the seventy weeks, which commence with seven weeks (7 x 7 = 49 days/years) to restore and rebuild Jerusalem (when the walls are rebuilt) unto the Messiah, which brings us to 396 B.C. After the second period of threescore and two weeks the Messiah is cut off. Sixty two weeks equals 434 days or prophetic years, which brings us to 38 Anno Domini (according to Roman dating). After His ascension our Lord continued to periodically speak to His apostles, and personally called Paul as a disciple. He then was cut off for awhile, and the Holy Spirit did His work. So the third and last period of the seventy weeks is not consecutive. "Then said I, I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another. And I took my staff, even Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people. And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that is was the word of the LORD. And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel." Zechariah 11:9-14.

The third period is a period of only one week (7 years) when he shall confirm the covenant with many. This is a prophecy of the seven year Jewish war beginning under the reign of Nero. One might say He began to confirm the covenant in Rome in the autumn of 63 A.D. or 64 A.D., when many Christians were called to confirm their covenants with our Lord, and were sacrificed under Nero who chose to blame the Christians for the great fire in Rome. A tradition places the sacrifice of Peter in 67 A.D., rather than 64 A.D. However, this prophecy was directed specifically to the Jews, some of whom had accepted Jesus Christ (Acts 11,12). In the Holy Land the Jewish war did not start until approximately August 15, 66 A.D., when Antonia was attacked, although some argue that it began with the unrest in Jerusalem and its surroundings in approximately May, 66. For the dates concerning the Jewish war I rely on the history of Josephus, the Jewish historian to the Romans. His history uses Macedonian (Greek) names for the months of the year which seem to correspond best with an accurate date if imposed upon the Roman months of the year. If, alternatively the Macedonian name is imposed on the Tyrian system or on the luni-solar calender, the date may vary up to one half month from the date I use herein (Roman). In the spring of the 13th year of Nero, 67 A.D., Vespasian, who is the seventh crown of the great red dragon, was sent to subdue the Hebrews. He began by taking cities and fortresses in Galilee: Jotapata, Japha, Garizim, Tarichaeae, and Gamala. After the death of Nero, Vespasian left his invasion of Judaea in 69 A.D., and returned to defeat Vitellius and become emperor. He then sent his son, Titus.

In the midst of the week, that is in the fourth or middle year, He causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The fourth year of the war would be August 15, 69 A.D., to August 14, 70 A.D. According to Josephus, Titus took the outer wall of Jerusalem on May 7, 70. The Temple sacrifice ceased on 17 Panemus, which would correspond with July 17, 70 A.D. Titus burned the Temple on August 10 (10 Lous), 70 A.D. Then the prophesied desolation began. On September 8 (8 Gorpaeus), 70 A.D., Titus took the upper city of Jerusalem. According to Tacitus 600,000 Jews perished. According to Josephus the Romans killed 1,197,000 Jews in the siege and the aftermath of revolts. About 97,000 captives were sold as slaves, or died as unwilling gladiators in the Roman games. The city walls were destroyed. The Jewish War continued until the fall of Masada in 73 A.D. [2] So the Hebrews had till 73 A.D., to accept their Messiah. Major revelations stopped, and the canonical books of the New Testament were set. Continuing revelation was through the Holy Spirit which revealed the truthfulness of the gospel to those who earnestly sought. He knowing the Hebrews would not accept their Messiah, has fulfilled His promise to give His light unto the Gentiles in the latter days. "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Luke 13:34-5.

PreachingChristCrucified said:

Basically what I am saying is that the millennium is now.

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No, sorry it is not. If we were in the thousand year reign of Christ on earth there would be no deception by way of the Devil working in the world because Satan is also bound up and sealed during this thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Anyone who thinks that Satan is currently bound, and the nations are not currently being deceived are also deceived themselves. (sorry)

InSpiritInTruth said:

No, sorry it is not. If we were in the thousand year reign of Christ on earth there would be no deception by way of the Devil working in the world because Satan is also bound up and sealed during this thousand years.

Revelation 20:1-3

King James Version (KJV)

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Anyone who thinks that Satan is currently bound, and the nations are not currently being deceived are also deceived themselves. (sorry)

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He is bound during the thousand years - during. That means the process starts in the thousand years, and has started. True it has a ways to go, but it will happen. Satan can only be bound when men deny him power in them - we can see we have a ways to go.

RevelationTestament said:

He is bound during the thousand years - during. That means the process starts in the thousand years, and has started. True it has a ways to go, but it will happen. Satan can only be bound when men deny him power in them - we can see we have a ways to go.

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Yes Satan is bound during the thousand years (as the scriptures also plainly show). But no it has not started yet because Satans spirit of deception is still present in the world right now (as is also self evident by all the deception and evil we see at work in the world).

InSpiritInTruth said:

Yes Satan is bound during the thousand years (as the scriptures also plainly show). But no it has not started yet because Satans spirit of deception is still present in the world right now (as is also self evident by all the deception and evil we see at work in the world).

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That criteria is meaningless respectfully. He will have deceptive power till the last person bends the knee to Christ - that doesn't mean the process hasn't started.

RevelationTestament said:

That criteria is meaningless respectfully. He will have deceptive power till the last person bends the knee to Christ - that doesn't mean the process hasn't started.

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Respectfully the process of Satan being bound for a thousand years does not start till the second coming of Christ first takes place. (unless you believe that has already happened as well)

Notice the sequence of events preceeding Satan being bound for a thousand years.

Revelation 19:11-20

King James Version (KJV)

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Notice at the Lords second coming with his armies how the beast and the false prophet are first cast alive into the lake of fire preceeding Satan being bound a thousand years, loosed, and then also cast into the lake of fire.

This is confirmed in Revelation 20:7-10 when after Satan is bound for a thousand years he is again loosed to deceive the nations. And then we see in verse 10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimestone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

So before the thousand year reign begins, and Satan is bound during that thousand years, Christs second coming will first take place. (which has not happened yet)

If you want more proof concerning the sequence of events compare Daniel 7;11-14 to Revelation 19:20 concerning the beast being slain first, his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame and the coming of one like the Son of man with the clouds of heaven.

And also in Daniel 7:27 it is confirmed again that at this time "and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him."

The second coming of Christ must first take place before the thousand years even begins.