Can you pass a Jim Crow era literacy test?

stamperben said:

Gee Mach, thanks, courteous soul that you are.

(rolls eyes...)

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Discourteous would be asking me the same thing over and over.

MachZer0 said:

Discourteous would be asking me the same thing over and over.

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I guess we both be persistent, eh?

MachZer0 said:

Yes, because it can be authenticated

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Not to the standards you claim to apply to all documents. We do not have an original copy. The oldest copies are from 200 years or so later. There are no seals o other official documentation. The grammar was not the Classical Greek that the translators were expecting. (Other examples of Koine were not discovered until Modern times) And the archiving institution has an agenda.

Everything that you reject in the case of the literacy test. The Gospel cannot be authenticated to your standards.

OllieFranz said:

Not to the standards you claim to apply to all documents. We do not have an original copy. The oldest copies are from 200 years or so later. There are no seals o other official documentation. The grammar was not the Classical Greek that the translators were expecting. (Other examples of Koine were not discovered until Modern times) And the archiving institution has an agenda.

Everything that you reject in the case of the literacy test. The Gospel cannot be authenticated to your standards.

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Your analysis is an oversimplification. The Bible is one of the most authenticated documents in history after intense scrutiny. The alleged literacy test has one question similar to other tests which themselves cannot be produced. That's the extent of it's authentication

MachZer0 said:

Your analysis is an oversimplification. The Bible is one of the most authenticated documents in history after intense scrutiny. The alleged literacy test has one question similar to other tests which themselves cannot be produced. That's the extent of it's authentication

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Ah, but you forget that:

MachZer0 said:

We have no information regarding a chain of custody.

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[serious];62909950 said:

Ah, but you forget that:

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Yes, the alleged test has no chain of custody

I read the first eight pages of this thread, got tired of Mach derailing and taking over yet another thread and skipped to the end, only to find that after 46 pages it's STILL being argued.

It doesn't help having him blocked if everyone still spends all their time responding to him, guys!

Chajara said:

I read the first eight pages of this thread, got tired of Mach derailing and taking over yet another thread and skipped to the end, only to find that after 46 pages it's STILL being argued.

It doesn't help having him blocked if everyone still spends all their time responding to him, guys!

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It's not a derail to question the authenticity of a document that is the subject of the thread

USincognito said:

The test (in PDF format) is from Louisiana. Read the instructions at the top and keep them in mind as you go through the questions. If you're really adventuresome, print the test out and don't look at it until ready to take it with a ten minute time limit.
http://www.crmvet.org/info/la-littest.pdf

More information on this particular test.
Veterans of the Civil Rights Movement -- Voter Literacy Test Questions

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These should all be banned and none of those "voter I.D. cards" become legal.

Imagine Jesus, God's conception of an "undocumented" human.
The absurdity of it all

Panzerkampfwagen said:

Quite frankly, if you can't read, you should not be allowed to vote because you have no way of knowing what you're voting for. So there are legitimate reasons for making sure people can read before they vote.

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But they were prevented from reading (oppressed), because they thought education would make them think, and they would free themselves and gain confidence in their abilities.

Hence, when Frederick Douglas was taught to read (illegally) it made him the strong leader and speaker he was for freedom. Reading was strength. education was strength - tools to free them.

"Shortly after Frederick joined the Auld household, he developed a strong desire to read, and Sophia gladly agreed to teach him. The boy was precocious and learned quickly. Sophia seemed proud of his progress, as if he had been 'her own child,' and told her husband about her new pupil. Hugh Auld scolded her severely, forbidding her to give the young slave further lessons, 'If you give a ____ an inch he will take an ell, he angrily lectured her. "Learning will spoil the best ____ in the world."
Professor Ronald Takaki: "A Different Mirror: A History of Multicultural America"

Also, I am against all of these tests. Imagine trying to explain it to Jesus, God, "These tests, they are for those who documented and undocumented." Imagine God, the creator of ALL humankind, conceptualizing "undocumented" humans.
What?

.

MachZer0 said:

Again, the link you provided referred to documents important enough to archive. That says nothing of the level of authenticity.

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Documents in the National Archive are, by the nature of being in the archive, incredibly well authenticated.

MachZer0 said:

The alleged literacy test has one question similar to other tests which themselves cannot be produced.

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You accuse others of not paying attention, yet you keep making this same incorrect claim after being repeatedly corrected.

The claim wasn't that the question appeared on any other literacy test. The claim was that it was mentioned in a transcript of a meeting discussing literacy test questions. That transcript was provided.

kermit said:

You accuse others of not paying attention, yet you keep making this same incorrect claim after being repeatedly corrected.

The claim wasn't that the question appeared on any other literacy test. The claim was that it was mentioned in a transcript of a meeting discussing literacy test questions. That transcript was provided.

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That even makes authentication a greater problem. There is now no evidence that the alleged test is legitimate. Zip

MachZer0 said:

That even makes authentication a greater problem. There is now no evidence that the alleged test is legitimate. Zip

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Even if someone who was an eyewitness who was there at the time the tests were in use and gives an example of one of the questions? That is what the transcript shows.

Skaloop said:

Even if someone who was an eyewitness who was there at the time the tests were in use and gives an example of one of the questions? That is what the transcript shows.

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What was that person's name?

MachZer0 said:

What was that person's name?

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Jeffrey Schwartz

Once again you are showing a lack of detail.

kermit said:

Jeffrey Schwartz

Once again you are showing a lack of detail.

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So schwartz claims he saw the questionon another literacy test, but can't actually produce the test. That doesn't really help your case very much

Scwartz didn't claim to have "seen" "another" test. He was describing a test that was actually administered to him back then. And others have spoken about classes to "beat" this and similar questions.

There is no such statement concerning the Gospel. And not one of your standards is met with regarding the Gospel. Not a single one. No chain of custody. No seal by Pilate or his successors, in fact no copy older than almost 200 years after the fact. Etc. By your standards, the Gospel cannot be taken as authentic, and cannot be discussed. We might as well shut down CF and close all the churches.

Or you could admit that you are holding out extreme, nearly impossible, standards for this test, that no one, including you, holds any other document to.

OllieFranz said:

Scwartz didn't claim to have "seen" "another" test. He was describing a test that was actually administered to him back then. And others have spoken about classes to "beat" this and similar questions.

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How did he take a test that he didn't see? Braille perhaps?

There is no such statement concerning the Gospel. And not one of your standards is met with regarding the Gospel. Not a single one. No chain of custody. No seal by Pilate or his successors, in fact no copy older than almost 200 years after the fact. Etc. By your standards, the Gospel cannot be taken as authentic, and cannot be discussed. We might as well shut down CF and close all the churches.

Or you could admit that you are holding out extreme, nearly impossible, standards for this test, that no one, including you, holds any other document to.

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You're sadly mistaken.

By the way, why would we expect Pilate to put his seal on the Gospels