Is the Catholic Church the only one capable of properly interpreting scripture?

He's not visible. And he knew he wouldn't be visible. That's why he put Peter in charge.
Well I don't see Jesus putting Peter in charge of anything but preaching the Gospel. When Jesus rose from the dead He is still alive. Heck He created the whole earth without man needing to intervene I am sure He can Lead His whole Body of believers without having a man to intervene and stand as He just because He is not visible to the naked eye.
 
Upvote 0

Gnarwhal

☩ Broman Catholic ☩
Oct 31, 2008
20,391
12,081
36
N/A
✟425,830.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Libertarian
Well I don't see Jesus putting Peter in charge of anything but preaching the Gospel. When Jesus rose from the dead He is still alive. Heck He created the whole earth without man needing to intervene I am sure He can Lead His whole Body of believers without having a man to intervene and stand as He just because He is not visible to the naked eye.

That's a really flawed argument: "he created the universe so that means he can govern his church without anyone helping." Well, yeah of course he can! But that's not the point. The point is that people have always been raised up and appointed to lead whether it was God appointing Moses, Christ appointing Peter or the Holy Spirit leading the Church to appoint a successor to Peter.

There has always been a framework to worship and that involves people appointed to lead it such as priests and bishops.
 
Upvote 0
That's a really flawed argument: "he created the universe so that means he can govern his church without anyone helping." Well, yeah of course he can! But that's not the point. The point is that people have always been raised up and appointed to lead whether it was God appointing Moses, Christ appointing Peter or the Holy Spirit leading the Church to appoint a successor to Peter.

There has always been a framework to worship and that involves people appointed to lead it such as priests and bishops.
This is why we see the new covenant. It is not like the old with priests coming before God for the people. It is now Christ who is our high priest and we have access to the Father. The curtain has been torn. He governs His Body through His Spirit and the Word. For He spoke to men before through the law and the Prophets. Now He has Spoken through His only begotton Son. Show me how it is flawed? Did God need man to create man?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rick Otto
Upvote 0

paul becke

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Jul 12, 2003
4,011
814
83
Edinburgh, Scotland.
✟205,214.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Politics
UK-Labour
How do you explain the same powers of binding & loosing given to Peter in Matthew 16 being given to all disciples present in Matthew 18?
(btw, Zwingli is the best!)

I believe I read that the principle of collegiality is at least partly based on St Paul's correction of Peter and the other Apostles as regards their continuing to insist on external Jewish rites, such as circumcision.
 
Upvote 0

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Site Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Well I don't see Jesus putting Peter in charge of anything but preaching the Gospel. When Jesus rose from the dead He is still alive. Heck He created the whole earth without man needing to intervene I am sure He can Lead His whole Body of believers without having a man to intervene and stand as He just because He is not visible to the naked eye.
Those highlighted should be Protestant mantra...
 
Upvote 0

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Site Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
Well one can't see it because in the full context of scripture it just isn't there..
In the full context of Scripture, it is there.

Scripture


Matt. to Rev. - Peter is mentioned 155 times and the rest of apostles combined are only mentioned 130 times. Peter is also always listed first except in 1 Cor. 3:22 and Gal. 2:9 (which are obvious exceptions to the rule).

Matt. 10:2; Mark 1:36; 3:16; Luke 6:14-16; Acts 1:3; 2:37; 5:29 - these are some of many examples where Peter is mentioned first among the apostles.
Matt. 14:28-29 - only Peter has the faith to walk on water. No other man in Scripture is said to have the faith to walk on water. This faith ultimately did not fail.
Matt. 16:16, Mark 8:29; John 6:69 - Peter is first among the apostles to confess the divinity of Christ.
Matt. 16:17 - Peter alone is told he has received divine knowledge by a special revelation from God the Father.
Matt. 16:18 - Jesus builds the Church only on Peter, the rock, with the other apostles as the foundation and Jesus as the Head.
Matt. 16:19 - only Peter receives the keys, which represent authority over the Church and facilitate dynastic succession to his authority.
Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.
Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.
Matt. 18:21 - in the presence of the disciples, Peter asks Jesus about the rule of forgiveness. One of many examples where Peter takes a leadership role among the apostles in understanding Jesus' teachings.
Matt. 19:27 - Peter speaks on behalf of the apostles by telling Jesus that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 10:28 - here also, Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples by declaring that they have left everything to follow Him.
Mark 11:21 - Peter speaks on behalf of the disciples in remembering Jesus' curse on the fig tree.
Mark 14:37 - at Gethsemane, Jesus asks Peter, and no one else, why he was asleep. Peter is accountable to Jesus for his actions on behalf of the apostles because he has been appointed by Jesus as their leader.
Mark 16:7 - Peter is specified by an angel as the leader of the apostles as the angel confirms the resurrection of Christ.
Luke 5:3 – Jesus teaches from Peter’s boat which is metaphor for the Church. Jesus guides Peter and the Church into all truth.
Luke 5:4,10 - Jesus instructs Peter to let down the nets for a catch, and the miraculous catch follows. Peter, the Pope, is the "fisher of men."
Luke 7:40-50- Jesus addresses Peter regarding the rule of forgiveness and Peter answers on behalf of the disciples. Jesus also singles Peter out and judges his conduct vis-à-vis the conduct of the woman who anointed Him.
Luke 8:45 - when Jesus asked who touched His garment, it is Peter who answers on behalf of the disciples.
Luke 8:51; 9:28; 22:8; Acts 1:13; 3:1,3,11; 4:13,19; 8:14 - Peter is always mentioned before John, the disciple whom Jesus loved.
Luke 9:28;33 - Peter is mentioned first as going to mountain of transfiguration and the only one to speak at the transfiguration.
Luke 12:41 - Peter seeks clarification of a parable on behalf on the disciples. This is part of Peter's formation as the chief shepherd of the flock after Jesus ascended into heaven.
Luke 22:31-32 - Jesus prays for Peter alone, that his faith may not fail, and charges him to strengthen the rest of the apostles.
Luke 24:12, John 20:4-6 - John arrived at the tomb first but stopped and waited for Peter. Peter then arrived and entered the tomb first.
Luke 24:34 - the two disciples distinguish Peter even though they both had seen the risen Jesus the previous hour. See Luke 24:33.
John 6:68 - after the disciples leave, Peter is the first to speak and confess his belief in Christ after the Eucharistic discourse.
John 13:6-9 - Peter speaks out to the Lord in front of the apostles concerning the washing of feet.
John 13:36; 21:18 - Jesus predicts Peter's death. Peter was martyred at Rome in 67 A.D. Several hundred years of papal successors were also martyred.
John 21:2-3,11 - Peter leads the fishing and his net does not break. The boat (the "barque of Peter") is a metaphor for the Church.
John 21:7 - only Peter got out of the boat and ran to the shore to meet Jesus. Peter is the earthly shepherd leading us to God.
John 21:15 - in front of the apostles, Jesus asks Peter if he loves Jesus "more than these," which refers to the other apostles. Peter is the head of the apostolic see.
John 21:15-17 - Jesus charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," "feed my sheep." Sheep means all people, even the apostles.
Acts 1:13 - Peter is first when entering upper room after our Lord's ascension. The first Eucharist and Pentecost were given in this room.
Acts 1:15 - Peter initiates the selection of a successor to Judas right after Jesus ascended into heaven, and no one questions him. Further, if the Church needed a successor to Judas, wouldn't it need one to Peter? Of course.
Acts 2:14 - Peter is first to speak for the apostles after the Holy Spirit descended upon them at Pentecost. Peter is the first to preach the Gospel.
Acts 2:38 - Peter gives first preaching in the early Church on repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.
Acts 3:1,3,4 - Peter is mentioned first as going to the Temple to pray.
Acts 3:6-7 - Peter works the first healing of the apostles.
Acts 3:12-26, 4:8-12 - Peter teaches the early Church the healing through Jesus and that there is no salvation other than Christ.
Acts 5:3 - Peter declares the first anathema of Ananias and Sapphira which is ratified by God, and brings about their death. Peter exercises his binding authority.
Acts 5:15 - Peter's shadow has healing power. No other apostle is said to have this power.
Acts 8:14 - Peter is mentioned first in conferring the sacrament of confirmation.
Acts 8:20-23 - Peter casts judgment on Simon's quest for gaining authority through the laying on of hands. Peter exercises his binding and loosing authority.
Acts 9:32-34 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and works the healing of Aeneas.
Acts 9:38-40 - Peter is mentioned first among the apostles and raises Tabitha from the dead.
Acts 10:5 - Cornelius is told by an angel to call upon Peter. Angels are messengers of God. Peter was granted this divine vision.
Acts 10:34-48, 11:1-18 - Peter is first to teach about salvation for all (Jews and Gentiles).
Acts 12:5 - this verse implies that the "whole Church" offered "earnest prayers" for Peter, their leader, during his imprisonment.
Acts 12:6-11 - Peter is freed from jail by an angel. He is the first object of divine intervention in the early Church.
Acts 15:7-12 - Peter resolves the first doctrinal issue on circumcision at the Church's first council at Jerusalem, and no one questions him. After Peter the Papa spoke, all were kept silent.
Acts 15:12 - only after Peter (the Pope) speaks do Paul and Barnabas (bishops) speak in support of Peter's definitive teaching.
Acts 15:13-14 - then James speaks to further acknowledge Peter's definitive teaching. "Simeon (Peter) has related how God first visited..."
Rom. 15:20 - Paul says he doesn't want to build on "another man's foundation" referring to Peter, who built the Church in Rome.
1 Cor. 9:5 – Peter is distinguished from the rest of the apostles and brethren of the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:4-8 - Paul distinguishes Jesus' post-resurrection appearances to Peter from those of the other apostles. Christ appeared “to Cephas, then to the twelve.”
Gal.1:18 - Paul spends fifteen days with Peter privately before beginning his ministry, even after Christ's Revelation to Paul.
1 Peter 5:1 - Peter acts as the chief bishop by "exhorting" all the other bishops and elders of the Church.
1 Peter 5:13 - Some Protestants argue against the Papacy by trying to prove Peter was never in Rome. First, this argument is irrelevant to whether Jesus instituted the Papacy. Secondly, this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city" of the New Testament period. Because Rome during this age was considered the center of the world, the Lord wanted His Church to be established in Rome.
2 Peter 1:14 - Peter writes about Jesus' prediction of Peter's death, embracing the eventual martyrdom that he would suffer.
2 Peter 3:16 - Peter is making a judgment on the proper interpretation of Paul's letters. Peter is the chief shepherd of the flock. Matt. 23:11; Mark 9:35; 10:44 - yet Peter, as the first, humbled himself to be the last and servant of all servants.

from Scripture Catholic - THE PRIMACY OF PETER
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Mar 27, 2007
34,437
3,872
On the bus to Heaven
✟60,078.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
In the full context of Scripture, it is there.

One would have to do mental pirouettes to reach some of the conclusions that you posted. I am again reminded of the argument that the apostles had regarding who among them was the greatest. Do you recall what Christ told them?
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Oh my my my my my, from the horses mouth

...this verse demonstrates that Peter was in fact in Rome. Peter writes from "Babylon" which was a code name for Rome during these days of persecution. See, for example, Rev. 14:8, 16:19, 17:5, 18:2,10,21, which show that "Babylon" meant Rome. Rome was the "great city"

You've made a mistake here in thinking that it was only for those times. You are right in saying that these verses are referring to the Roman Church, for those verses point to events that have not yet happened. Rome was represented as Babylon period, and the Apostle John wrote about things that were to happen then, and things that were to happen in the future.

Rev 14:8 - And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

16:19 - And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

17:5 - And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

18:2 - And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 10 - Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 21 - And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.



You probably shouldn't have left out this one:
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
 
Upvote 0

steve_bakr

Christian
Aug 3, 2011
5,918
240
✟22,533.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
Oh my my my my my, from the horses mouth

You've made a mistake here in thinking that it was only for those times. You are right in saying that these verses are referring to the Roman Church, for those verses point to events that have not yet happened. Rome was represented as Babylon period, and the Apostle John wrote about things that were to happen then, and things that were to happen in the future.

Rev 14:8 - And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

16:19 - And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

17:5 - And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

18:2 - And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 10 - Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. 21 - And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

You probably shouldn't have left out this one:
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

You mean to refer to ancient Rome, and eschatology is not an eyewitness account of fixed future events. The future is still an open possibility.
 
Upvote 0

Root of Jesse

Admiral of the Fleet/First Sea Lord
Site Supporter
Jun 23, 2011
18,910
3,646
Bay Area, California
Visit site
✟354,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Constitution
One would have to do mental pirouettes to reach some of the conclusions that you posted. I am again reminded of the argument that the apostles had regarding who among them was the greatest. Do you recall what Christ told them?
Actually, if you study the whole organic faith, you don't have to do any mental pirouettes. The Catholic faith is the only one that doesn't require you to play Twister in your mind.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You mean to refer to ancient Rome, and eschatology is not an eyewitness account of fixed future events. The future is still an open possibility.

I meant exactly what I said, and the future isn't an open possibility when God says exactly what's going to happen. That's one of those ways you're able to prove prophecy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Actually, if you study the whole organic faith, you don't have to do any mental pirouettes. The Catholic faith is the only one that doesn't require you to play Twister in your mind.

True. It simply requires you to believe what you're told.
 
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by Hentenza
One would have to do mental pirouettes to reach some of the conclusions that you posted. I am again reminded of the argument that the apostles had regarding who among them was the greatest. Do you recall what Christ told them?
Actually, if you study the whole organic faith, you don't have to do any mental pirouettes. The Catholic faith is the only one that doesn't require you to play Twister in your mind.
:D

I always liked that game when I was younger....I could explain why, but not on CF :p


images





.
 
Upvote 0

steve_bakr

Christian
Aug 3, 2011
5,918
240
✟22,533.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I meant exactly what I said, and the future isn't an open possibility when God says exactly what's going to happen. That's one of those ways you're able to prove prophecy.

How do you know that you are not injecting your own historical, cultural, sociological, religious, and psychological bias into your reading of these eschatological assertions? Not to mention wishful thinking. It's been done for centuries, and it is incorrect eschatology.
 
Upvote 0

Stryder06

Check the signature
Jan 9, 2009
13,856
519
✟31,839.00
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
How do you know that you are not injecting your own historical, cultural, sociological, and psychological bias into your reading of these eschatological assertions? It's been done for centuries, and it is incorrect eschatology.

Don't know enough about any of those subjects to do that. ;)

True enough that prophecies have been misinterpreted for as long as they've been around, and that only helps forward the enemies agenda of discouraging God's people's understanding of it. But we are told to not despise prophecy.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Site Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,588
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
Originally Posted by steve_bakr
How do you know that you are not injecting your own historical, cultural, sociological, and psychological bias into your reading of these eschatological assertions? It's been done for centuries, and it is incorrect eschatology.
Don't know enough about any of those subjects to do that. ;)

True enough that prophecies have been misinterpreted for as long as they've been around, and that only helps forward the enemies agenda of discouraging God's people's understanding of it. But we are told to not despise prophecy.
So what makes you think the SDA sect is any better at interpreting prophecy?

images




..
 
Upvote 0