Alleged Contradictions in the Bible
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Epiphoskei
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"Absolute precision" is a non-concept. I don't think you grasp the concept of precision.
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Epiphoskei
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It has been answered several different ways. If you don't find them "acceptable," that's your problem. Truth doesn't care what you don't like to hear.
Now, I don't hold the counting from midnight view myself, but you're insisting on something you haven't proven yet. Are you a historian? Do you have formal training? Are you an armchair enthusiast of ancient history who happened to read a few journal articles on ancient timekeeping? Can we see your sources? Are they primary, or at least peer reviewed secondary sources? Or are you simply insisting on the absolute and unconditional veracity of something you read once upon a time somewhere?
And again, have you ever been long separated from a wristwatch?
You want timekeeping to be absolutely precise, but also count hours from dawn. Do you not realize that these two propositions are mutually exclusive? To count time exactly, you need some kind of exact measurement system for the passage of time. That system has to be calibrated to some kind of observational benchmark that always occurs at the same time. The only such benchmark is high noon. Sunrise occurs at wildly different hours over the course of the year. If the hours begin at dawn then the hours can't have fixed length and timekeeping is nothing but estimation.
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It has been answered by two lies:
First lie is that Romasn use a time hours commencing at midnight. That is one of the lies.
The second lie it is about the unaccuracy of the Bible. That is the second lie.
The truth is that Romas used the same hours than the Jew and doesnt care if you dont like it to hera.
The truth is that the Bible is totally accurate and doesnt care if you dont like it to hear.
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Epiphoskei
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On your say-so only, apparently. Interact with what people write. Once more:
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Your suposed answers were totally refutated.
Do you want me to refute them again? Just do a re-posting or just give us the post #.
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Epiphoskei
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"Refuted" on nothing but the basis of your say so. Cite sources and answer questions. I don't feel the need at this point to repeat them yet again.
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My sources: the Bible
John states that by the sixth hour Jesus was at Pilates
The Synoptics stated that by the third hour Jesus was crucified.
The Roman clock, or time of day, was divided into 12 hours (Latin horae) of light and 12 hours of darkness.
^ Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire - Page 543 Matthew Bunson - 2002 "The Roman day was divided into 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness. By the middle of the second century BCE, the Romans understood that the length of daylight varied throughout the year and also depended upon latitude.
^ The Romans: an introduction - Page 208 Antony Kamm - 2008 "The Roman day was divided into twelve hours of equal length, from sunrise to sunset, and likewise during the night. Thus the length of an hour, and the hour itself, varied according to the season of the year."
^ The Gospel of John: Volume 1 - Page 98 William Barclay - 2001 "The Jewish day, like the Roman day, was divided into twelve equal hours, from sunrise to sunset. That of course means that the length of an hour varied according to the length of the day and the season of the year."
John states that by the sixth hour Jesus was at Pilates
The Synoptics stated that by the third hour Jesus was crucified.
The Roman clock, or time of day, was divided into 12 hours (Latin horae) of light and 12 hours of darkness.
^ Encyclopedia of the Roman Empire - Page 543 Matthew Bunson - 2002 "The Roman day was divided into 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness. By the middle of the second century BCE, the Romans understood that the length of daylight varied throughout the year and also depended upon latitude.
^ The Romans: an introduction - Page 208 Antony Kamm - 2008 "The Roman day was divided into twelve hours of equal length, from sunrise to sunset, and likewise during the night. Thus the length of an hour, and the hour itself, varied according to the season of the year."
^ The Gospel of John: Volume 1 - Page 98 William Barclay - 2001 "The Jewish day, like the Roman day, was divided into twelve equal hours, from sunrise to sunset. That of course means that the length of an hour varied according to the length of the day and the season of the year."
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NOTICE:
until now nobody have shown a reliable source stablishing that Romans count hours from midnight.
what we have are few christians repeating the fabrication of a false explanation.
until now nobody have shown a reliable source stablishing that Romans count hours from midnight.
what we have are few christians repeating the fabrication of a false explanation.
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She has been given the answer along with cited sources and has not answered nor posted sources of her own to refute anything. Unless she does this, I see no reason to continue the conversation.
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Dont get much exited. In the next hours I will demostrate out of any doubt that John time is the same as the Synoptic times.
Meanwile, it will be good for you to prepare the apollogy of your argumentation. So far is ONLY your own opinion and the personal opinion of some christians without any prove of anything.
Be ready.
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Time accuracy and precision in the NT
In the I Century the Jew were able to know with much accuracy and precision what hour of the day it was at all time. It follows some internal evidence in the NT
Things that happened in the same hour. That is: the witnesses were able to confirm that each event did happens at the same hour, despite at different places.
Matthew 8:13
Matthew 15:28
John 4:52-53
Act 10:30
Evidence that the Jew were able to measure one, two and three hours lapses
Matthew 26:40 = one hour
Mark 14:37 = one hour
Luke 22:59 = one hour
Acts 19:34 = two hours
Acts 5:7 = three hours
Some hours mentioned in the NT
3rd hour = Matthew 20:3; Mark 15:25; Act 2:15
6th hour = Matthew 20:5; 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44; John 4:6; 19:14
7th hour = John 4:52
9th hour = Matthew 20:5; 27:45; 27:46; Mark 15:33; 15:34; Act 3:1; 10:3; 10:9; 10:30
10th hour = John 1:39
11th hour = Matthew 20:6
3rd Hour of the night = Acts 23:23
In the I Century the Jew were able to know with much accuracy and precision what hour of the day it was at all time. It follows some internal evidence in the NT
Things that happened in the same hour. That is: the witnesses were able to confirm that each event did happens at the same hour, despite at different places.
Matthew 8:13
Matthew 15:28
John 4:52-53
Act 10:30
Evidence that the Jew were able to measure one, two and three hours lapses
Matthew 26:40 = one hour
Mark 14:37 = one hour
Luke 22:59 = one hour
Acts 19:34 = two hours
Acts 5:7 = three hours
Some hours mentioned in the NT
3rd hour = Matthew 20:3; Mark 15:25; Act 2:15
6th hour = Matthew 20:5; 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44; John 4:6; 19:14
7th hour = John 4:52
9th hour = Matthew 20:5; 27:45; 27:46; Mark 15:33; 15:34; Act 3:1; 10:3; 10:9; 10:30
10th hour = John 1:39
11th hour = Matthew 20:6
3rd Hour of the night = Acts 23:23
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ebia
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You're confusing accuracy with precision.
An "hour" in that world was not a precisely defined unit in our terms. In fact measurement precision really only became even theoretically possible with the philosophy of the metric system during the French Revolution and the attempt to define units against a fixed universal standard.
When your hour is "one twelfth of the period from sunrise to sunset (day) or sunset to sunrise (night)" then the length of the hour actually changes as you go through the year.
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It does not matter the precision. It does not matter if an hour is 54 minutes or 75 minutes. What it matters is that the 3rd hor is 9am, and the sixth hour is 12noon.
I have porved that in the Gospel of John, hours are counted the same manner and presicion than in the synoptics.
You still have a huge prpoblem trying to demostrate that the sixth hour is before the erd hour.
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