The Bible is NOT the WORD OF GOD

MikeBigg said:

That was uncalled for.

Actually, I agree with Sonshine. John 1 tells us who the Word of God is. Quite clearly.

Some people seem to elevate the Bible into being equal to the members of the Godhead - creating a quadrinity.

Christianity is supposed to be first and foremost a relationship with The Living God. His followers hear His voice. The Bible is useful, but God's voice is much more personal and much more appropriate in the context of a living relationship.

As charismatics, we should be walking in this.

Regards,

Mike

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Faulty said:

Indeed they both are.

After all, since Jesus called the scripture the "word of God", who am I to argue with Him in the matter.

Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.
Matthew 15:1-6
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Yes -- Certainly all Scriptures was inspired by God!! Also, we have very specific words recorded in the Scriptures that God spoke!! It should still be noted, that not every word in the Scriptures are God's words, thought God inspired them to be written. For example, Satan is also clearly quoted in the Scriptures, and Satan's words are not God's words. So also look at the verse quoted above--- Jesus was not necessarily referring to all the words in the Bible as being the word of God. The reference specifically is in regards to honoring our father and mother.

Check out Jesus on what Moses wrote:

Jn 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me. But if you do not believe his writings how will you believe My words?

So Jesus called the Scriptures Moses wrote 'his writing' as opposed to God's writings. Still it was those inspired writings of Moses that should have gotten the Jews to seek the words of Jesus Christ our Lord.

So we need to read the Scriptures with the clear understanding that they are inspired by God. Yet if we read them and fail to come to the Lord and hear what He has to say to us, we missed the whole point and purpose for them.

So I don't have a particular problem with the Scripture being called the Word of God. But it is worth noting that it can cause confusion, and this I have seen many times: That people know the Scriptures but don't always come to know the Lord.

For example, I had a person tell me that he had to preach the Word of God and wanted to know if I had seen a book on it. I told him I had, and ask if the Lord had told him exactly what type of book he was to look for. He couldn't understand, and when I told him that the Lord talks to us he called me a liar. So if felt a need to preach the Word of God but didn't know the Word of God. That is, he was going to preach the Bible without knowing the Lord. That's all wrong.

The Spirit once told me. "WE DON'T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES, WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD."

That is what Jesus meant when He said, "For if you believed Moses you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me."

That is what we do. We write about Him. And it is nice to have the Scritpures to help.

Faulty said:

Indeed they both are.

After all, since Jesus called the scripture the "word of God", who am I to argue with Him in the matter.

Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” He answered them, “And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God.
Matthew 15:1-6
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Good point.

I think it is scripture, correctly applied, which can be rightfully called the word of God.


Not: Doctrines of Man concerning the importance of the Bible. Not speculations on what end-times prophecy might have been fulfilled today in Israel. Not another movie made about the Rapture. Not the theologies of men teaching us what they think the Truth is while simply inserting scriptures into the sermon to make it sound more legit.

And of course, there is also the personal spoken word of God that most of us receive from time to time in our hearts. I cannot emphasize strong enough how important it is to honor the personal commands of our Lord. Remember, that this is the Bible in action in our lives today, as many of the characters therein are know to us today because they received the "word of the Lord" and by faith obeyed...

Faulty said:

You're making up your own definitions.

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Funny, that's what I think of everyone who tries to tell me that the 66 books of the Bible are the "Word of God".


I think if you remove those doctrinal blinders off your eyes and consider what scripture really has to say on the matter, you'll see something different than what you've been taught. Even the passage you referenced above (Rom 9:4-6) doesn't say anything close to what you claimed, if you just read it for what it says without the "Bible is the Word of God" indoctrination.

Since God "breathed out" his words into Scripture, and since Scripture has been compiled (as best as possible) into the Bible, what else would you call it besides God's Word? If someone wants to idolize it, that's their problem.

Tobias said:

Good point.

I think it is scripture, correctly applied, which can be rightfully called the word of God.


Not: Doctrines of Man concerning the importance of the Bible. Not speculations on what end-times prophecy might have been fulfilled today in Israel. Not another movie made about the Rapture. Not the theologies of men teaching us what they think the Truth is while simply inserting scriptures into the sermon to make it sound more legit.

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I too think the Scriptures can rightfully be called the word of God, which does not mean that I think they should always be.

The problem is that by calling both Jesus Christ and the Scriptures "The Word of God" we can cause confusion in the very people that we are trying to bring to the Lord!!

That is; if we are not careful we can wind up encouraging people to think that knowing the Scriptures is the same think as knowing the Lord. Jesus explained that in that day many would tell Him that they cast out demons in His name, healed the sick in His name, and even prophesied in His name, yet He was going to tell them that He never knew them.

That is going to happen to many people, so aren't there going to be some sitting around you in church? Probably! So how would you feel if when you get to heaven you found out that someone you knew well at church did get there?

We have a responsiblity to make our message clear!!

Knowing the Word does nor mean you know the Word!!

But that's confusining!

So while it is ok to call the Scriptures the Word of God, and we might want to point that out, like Jesus did in reference to honoring your father and mother, it might not alway be the wise thing to do. Sometimes it is better to point out that Moses wrote (the five books of Moses) to point us to Jesus Christ whose name is called the Word of God because He wants us to listen to His small voice spoken personally to each one of us.

So a bit of discernment is needed to avoid the confusion!!

Deut 30:19-20... So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, by loving the Lord your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life...

He has a voice which we can hear with our spiritual ears, and the book is not His voice but rather His book. Still the first words I heard from Him were "Read your Bible". So I would be surprised to find out that He didn't tell someone else the same thing.

I understand the statement despite how blasphemous it seems. Coming from Islam I always have a serious issue with idolizing anything. When referring to the Qur'an we also said it was "the compilation of God's words passed down from his messenger". We always made sure it was never idolized and I do the same with the Bible.
I hope everyone understand that the blog entry is written for shock value which is how it gets readers. I do admit it was rather deceptive but still contained some valid truth. The Bible is not a weapon to beat people over the heads with and in this age one cannot afford to do so. Doing such has resulted in millions becoming disillusioned and slowly leaving Christianity. The Bible is a tool and a perfect tool at that for spreading the word of god. But do understand that it does not exist to judge others nor condemn them.

1Samuel 3:7 Now Samuel did not yet know the Lord, nor had the word of the Lord yet been revealed to him. 8 So the Lord called Samuel again for the third time. And he arose and went to Eli and said, “Here I am, for you called me.” Then Eli discerned that the Lord was calling the boy. 9 And Eli said to Samuel, “Go lie down, and it shall be if He calls you, that you shall say, ‘Speak, Lord, for Your servant is listening.’”

2 Samuel 24:11
When David arose in the morning, the word of the Lord came to the prophet Gad, David’s seer, saying,

1 Kings 12:24
‘Thus says the Lord, “You must not go up and fight against your relatives the sons of Israel; return every man to his house, for this thing has come from Me.”’” So they listened to the word of the Lord, and returned and went their way according to the word of the Lord.

1 Kings 17:16
The bowl of flour was not exhausted nor did the jar of oil become empty, according to the word of the Lord which He spoke through Elijah.

1 Kings 17:24
Then the woman said to Elijah, “Now I know that you are a man of God and that the word of the Lord in your mouth is truth.”



Just a small selection of the 255 passages if you do a search for "Word of the Lord" on Biblegateway.com (NASB version)

Tobias said:

And of course, there is also the personal spoken word of God that most of us receive from time to time in our hearts. I cannot emphasize strong enough how important it is to honor the personal commands of our Lord. Remember, that this is the Bible in action in our lives today, as many of the characters therein are know to us today because they received the "word of the Lord" and by faith obeyed...

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It is not the Bible in action, it is the Spirit of God in action!!

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative...

The Bible - Scripture - Graphe in Greek - is Holy Writ!!

Writing can not take action. Writing is not a He!! The Spirit of God is a He!! And as such can take action, where writing can't.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh propits nothing; the words that I ahve spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Now ink on paper is not spirit!! The words we hear via the small voice of the Lord are spirit, and are spoken from the Spirit.

Those that wrote the Scriptures heard the small voice of the Lord, they were not reading Scriptures!!

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.

Now the above was written to the Jews who read and studied the Scriptures, but Jesus told them plainly that they didn't hear the words of God. So then reading the Scriptures can not be considered the same thing as hearing the Spirit talk to you, otherwise the above Scripture couldn't be correct!

When we take an inanimate object and start saying it is alive and making it god, as the Spirit of God is, we are making an idol out of it!!

dysert said:

Since God "breathed out" his words into Scripture, and since Scripture has been compiled (as best as possible) into the Bible, what else would you call it besides God's Word? If someone wants to idolize it, that's their problem.

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The Greeks called it Graphe, which is translated Scriptures in your Bible. You can call it the Bible. You can call it Scriptures. And while I don't think it is necessarily wrong to call your Bible the word of God. We should not argue of symatics. But remember, not every word in the Bible are words from God!!

Mat 4:5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city... and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'He will command His angels concerning You'

Now the devil's words are not God words. The devil's words are not God words even if the devil is quoting Scriptures!!!

So how silly do we become when we by our terminology and understanding start saying the devil is speaking the Word of God??

So if anybody can gets up in front and teach or preach and quotes Scriptures, we say that they are speaking the Word of God, but are they really?

My friends, you had better make sure you have a personal relationship with the Lord, so you can make sure what you hear, even Scriptures quoted, are from God!! And that applies to people as well as spirits! There is a problem with saying something is the word of God to us just because it is Scriptures!! Jesus did not just figure what the devil said to Him was from the Father, even though the devil spoke Scriptures to Him.

K2K said:

It is not the Bible in action, it is the Spirit of God in action!!

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative...

The Bible - Scripture - Graphe in Greek - is Holy Writ!!

Writing can not take action. Writing is not a He!! The Spirit of God is a He!! And as such can take action, where writing can't.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh propits nothing; the words that I ahve spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Now ink on paper is not spirit!! The words we hear via the small voice of the Lord are spirit, and are spoken from the Spirit.

Those that wrote the Scriptures heard the small voice of the Lord, they were not reading Scriptures!!

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.

Now the above was written to the Jews who read and studied the Scriptures, but Jesus told them plainly that they didn't hear the words of God. So then reading the Scriptures can not be considered the same thing as hearing the Spirit talk to you, otherwise the above Scripture couldn't be correct!

When we take an inanimate object and start saying it is alive and making it god, as the Spirit of God is, we are making an idol out of it!!

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Lol. Don't we usually agree on these things, K2K?


What I meant by saying that "it's the Bible in action in our lives today," is that when we hear the spoken word of the Lord and obey it, then we are living our lives exactly like the people in the Bible!


I was raised in Sunday School learning the stories of all these people that followed God's voice. But for some reason, most of the teaching I got didn't prepare me for a lifetime of following God's voice for myself.




Perhaps my heart is full of pride and hubris for me to think the Lord God would speak to me personally and lead me about just like He did with the great men and women in the Bible stories. Or perhaps the Church has made a religion out of teaching us Bible stories, putting the Bible up on a pedestal while blocking anyone who sincerely attempts to follow the example of the people in those stories.

K2K said:

The Greeks called it Graphe, which is translated Scriptures in your Bible. You can call it the Bible. You can call it Scriptures. And while I don't think it is necessarily wrong to call your Bible the word of God. We should not argue of symatics. But remember, not every word in the Bible are words from God!!
Mat 4:5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city... and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'He will command His angels concerning You'

Now the devil's words are not God words. The devil's words are not God words even if the devil is quoting Scriptures!!!

So how silly do we become when we by our terminology and understanding start saying the devil is speaking the Word of God??

So if anybody can gets up in front and teach or preach and quotes Scriptures, we say that they are speaking the Word of God, but are they really?

My friends, you had better make sure you have a personal relationship with the Lord, so you can make sure what you hear, even Scriptures quoted, are from God!! And that applies to people as well as spirits! There is a problem with saying something is the word of God to us just because it is Scriptures!! Jesus did not just figure what the devil said to Him was from the Father, even though the devil spoke Scriptures to Him.

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again, paul held up the logos alot, and the logos stood, even if man did not like it, agree with it, or know it.

are men dead in sin, as per the logos, even if they do not think they are?

the clear objective text can't be denied, alive then when said, alive when quoted then, and alive now!

as far as the blue above, what scriptures are not from God?

please advise, so we all know, thanks.

K2K said:

It is not the Bible in action, it is the Spirit of God in action!!

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative...

The Bible - Scripture - Graphe in Greek - is Holy Writ!!

Writing can not take action. Writing is not a He!! The Spirit of God is a He!! And as such can take action, where writing can't.

Jn 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh propits nothing; the words that I ahve spoken to you are spirit and are life.

Now ink on paper is not spirit!! The words we hear via the small voice of the Lord are spirit, and are spoken from the Spirit.

Those that wrote the Scriptures heard the small voice of the Lord, they were not reading Scriptures!!

Jn 8:47 He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God.

Now the above was written to the Jews who read and studied the Scriptures, but Jesus told them plainly that they didn't hear the words of God. So then reading the Scriptures can not be considered the same thing as hearing the Spirit talk to you, otherwise the above Scripture couldn't be correct!

When we take an inanimate object and start saying it is alive and making it god, as the Spirit of God is, we are making an idol out of it!!

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Matthew 22:29
But Jesus answered them, “You are wrong, because you know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God.

Tobias said:

Lol. Don't we usually agree on these things, K2K?


What I meant by saying that "it's the Bible in action in our lives today," is that when we hear the spoken word of the Lord and obey it, then we are living our lives exactly like the people in the Bible!


I was raised in Sunday School learning the stories of all these people that followed God's voice. But for some reason, most of the teaching I got didn't prepare me for a lifetime of following God's voice for myself.




Perhaps my heart is full of pride and hubris for me to think the Lord God would speak to me personally and lead me about just like He did with the great men and women in the Bible stories. Or perhaps the Church has made a religion out of teaching us Bible stories, putting the Bible up on a pedestal while blocking anyone who sincerely attempts to follow the example of the people in those stories.

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yep, them, and us..


.Rom 4:23” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, 24 but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord,

Frogster said:

again, paul held up the logos alot, and the logos stood, even if man did not like it, agree with it, or know it.

are men dead in sin, as per the logos, even if they do not think they are?

the clear objective text can't be denied, alive then when said, alive when quoted then, and alive now!

as far as the blue above, what scriptures are not from God?

please advise, so we all know, thanks.

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Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word (logos), and the Word (logos) was with God, and the (logos) was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Jn 1:14 And the word (logos) became flesh, and dwlet amoung us, and we saw His glory...

Jn 1:15 John testified about Him and cried out, saying, "This is He of whom I said, 'He who come after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.

Jn 5:39 You search the Scriptures (Graphe) because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture (Graphe) is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction...

2 Tim 4:2 preach the word (logos)

1 Cor 1:23 but we preach Christ crudified

1 Cor 2:2 For I determined to know nothing amoung you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.

1 Cor 15:12 Now if Christ is preached

1 Gal 1:6,7 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.

Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

Rm 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: 'DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN? ( that is, to bring Christ down)

Rm 10:8 But what does is say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" -- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

Jn 14:20 In that day you will know that I am in the Father, and you in Me, and I in you.

Jn 14:23 ... If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him and We will come to him and make our abode with him.

The point above is that we preach Jesus Christ!!! He is called the Word of God because we can hear from Him!! He makes His abode in us if we listen to Him. Now the writings (Scriptures) are not in us but He who talked to the prophets of old is in us!!

We do not preach the Scriptures!! We preach Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. So where we are told to preach the Word, it mean preaching Jesus Christ!!

That is what the gospel of John does. It start be calling Jesus Christ the Word - the Logos!! He is the Word (logos) who took on flesh!! The Scriptures did not take on flesh, Jesus Christ did!!

So now - some are calling the logos an "it", but the gospel of John calls the logos a "He". And that seems a bit incredible because certain John (if indeed John wrote the gospel of John) must have certainly called Jesus "Jesus" not the Word. Still it was important enough to start his gospel off by referring to Jesus Christ by His name "The Word", which can be seen in Revelation, which was clearly written by John.

And Paul specifically stated that he preach Jesus Christ, so if Paul tells us to preach the Word, then Paul is also calling Jesus Christ "The Word". Paul did not tells us to preach the Scriptures (graphe), which he refered to just two verse before and told us to study them. So Paul did not write - 'study the Scriptures are preach the Scriptures' but instead wrote to 'study the Scriptures and preach the Word' and that from the same Paul who claimed to preach Jesus Christ and desire to know nothing but Jesus Christ and Him crucified, amoung the brethren.

So it might be fine to call both the Scriptures and the Lord "The Word of God". That might just be a case of symatics. But we preach Jesus Christ, and Him crucified! We preach Jesus Christ because He wants to talk to us via the Spirit of God and He wants to make His home in us!

So we are preaching a "He" whose name is called 'The Word of God' and we use the Bible (an 'it') to do that.

We study it, but we preach Him!!

Tobias said:

Lol. Don't we usually agree on these things, K2K?


What I meant by saying that "it's the Bible in action in our lives today," is that when we hear the spoken word of the Lord and obey it, then we are living our lives exactly like the people in the Bible!


I was raised in Sunday School learning the stories of all these people that followed God's voice. But for some reason, most of the teaching I got didn't prepare me for a lifetime of following God's voice for myself.




Perhaps my heart is full of pride and hubris for me to think the Lord God would speak to me personally and lead me about just like He did with the great men and women in the Bible stories. Or perhaps the Church has made a religion out of teaching us Bible stories, putting the Bible up on a pedestal while blocking anyone who sincerely attempts to follow the example of the people in those stories.

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Gotcha -

Absolutely - We are supposed to be like those people that heard the Lord and did what He said.

K2K said:

The Greeks called it Graphe, which is translated Scriptures in your Bible. You can call it the Bible. You can call it Scriptures. And while I don't think it is necessarily wrong to call your Bible the word of God. We should not argue of symatics. But remember, not every word in the Bible are words from God!!

Mat 4:5 Then the devil took Him into the holy city... and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, 'He will command His angels concerning You'

Now the devil's words are not God words. The devil's words are not God words even if the devil is quoting Scriptures!!!

So how silly do we become when we by our terminology and understanding start saying the devil is speaking the Word of God??

So if anybody can gets up in front and teach or preach and quotes Scriptures, we say that they are speaking the Word of God, but are they really?

My friends, you had better make sure you have a personal relationship with the Lord, so you can make sure what you hear, even Scriptures quoted, are from God!! And that applies to people as well as spirits! There is a problem with saying something is the word of God to us just because it is Scriptures!! Jesus did not just figure what the devil said to Him was from the Father, even though the devil spoke Scriptures to Him.

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You make an interesting point, though I think it would be stronger to quote something like Gen. 3:1. Nevertheless, when I say the Bible is God's Word, I'm expressing my belief that every word in the Bible is there because God wanted it there. God "breathed out" the words to be written, and so what is written are His words.