Maybe I Will Leave a Church Again

Yusuphhai

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese
Oct 19, 2005
5,041
1,868
51
Beijing China
✟170,549.00
Country
China
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Just because I use the English Name (Jesus Christ) and Hebrew Name (Yeshua HaMashiach) but not the Chinese Name of Yeshua, I was reminded of by a theological Doctor who graduated from American seminary that maybe I have the trend of Heresy. It sounds like a joke but really happened. Why is the Jewish Name of Yeshua so bothered? Is his God not the God of Abraham? My opinion is not Jewish Legalism (saved by performing the Laws), Why does he think me as Legalism? Because he thinks all who like the base of Torah as Legalism? He thinks I am making the Gospel confused. What is his “Gospel”? One must call the Chinese name of Yeshua? I think Anti-Semitism is based that they don’t like the God of Shem who challenges their right of firstborn in their opinion, but usually they don’t think they have Anti-Semitism opinion.

The Leader of that church(another theological doctor from American Seminary) said the Nicaea Route(AD 325) was the victory of Church. Maybe I will leave the church. If so I have only one Christian friend to talk face to face.

Pardon my vent. Prayer is appreciated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gxg (G²)

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,925
8,040
✟575,802.44
Faith
Messianic
Dear Heavenly Father:

I hold up your dear friend of faith in you, before you, and pray that you will send like fellow believers for Him to sojourn with. As a light in the dark, it is not hid under a basket, but shining forth. But like one candle in the dark, it needs more candles with it to brighten up the place. Could you please send more lightened individuals to join with him and stand for you in this place of darkness? We ask this in your Holy Name... Amein
 
Upvote 0

Avodat

Contending for Biblical truth
Jul 2, 2011
4,188
315
✟21,427.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Not sure how they gained their doctorates, but they are talking rubbish, my friend. I assure you, as a minister of some years in His service, there is no heresy in what you have written on here. It may be that they are liberals and not evangelicals?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ContraMundum
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I see no heresy in your words.
Agreed.

Haters will always find a reason to hate - and there's no reason to allow them to discourage
 
Upvote 0
D

dnc101

Guest
I've been thinking about this, as it is sort of bothersome to me. It is difficult to give advice from an internet post and being a few thousand miles away, in a different culture and all. But here goes, and I pray this helps:

If this missionary is sponsored by a church, he will probably report to someone to whom he is responsible for his actions. I would first go to him and see if he can clarify what he meant by his remarks. If he doesn't answer to your satisfaction, then write to whoever he reports to. Sit with them and talk this out. This will meet the Biblical requirement to go to him with another person and talk. And it will be the person who can answer both of you with authority.

If you still feel this is an attack on your beliefs, and that you are right, then leave. But I would caution against just leaving every time there is a disagreement.

I will add that just using the English and Hebrew names Jesus/Yeshua is not heresy. If he is trying not to confuse people there who are new in the faith and your using these name is being disruptive, then it might be a spirit of rebellion to keep using the names in public. I'm sure you wouldn't want to get in the way of new believers development. If he is as reasonable too then you may be able to come to an understanding. You won't know though if you don't talk to him.

But if he is making an attack on your beliefs because they challenge his beliefs, then you should by all means leave unless his higher ups address the problem.

My advice, hope it helps.

Dan C
 
Upvote 0

Yusuphhai

Messianic Arabic-Semitic Chinese
Oct 19, 2005
5,041
1,868
51
Beijing China
✟170,549.00
Country
China
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
Thanks a lot for your care and advice. I feel I am not alone but have support.

He think I intentionally use the Hebrew name of Yeshua HaMashiach but avoid the Greek-Chinese Name, it is not true. In fact in Chinese environment I use the Greek-Chinese name most frequently. See my signature. I used the name Yeshua HaMashiach in the church in public only once. That name I wrote a letter to him with was Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) and [FONT=&#23435]耶穌([/FONT]Yesu[FONT=&#23435])[/FONT].

The next letter from him told me why he doubted I was a heretic . He found a guy on web who used the name of Yeshua HaMashiach and preached against “being justice by the faith”, and if one does not keep the torah and Sabbath one can not be saved. He thinks the guy as a heretic. So he asked me to use the Greek-Chinese name but not the Hebrew name, because the new covenant was revealed by Greek. Since one misused the Hebrew name, the Hebrew name can not be used. It still sounds like a joke of confusing the Logic . We can not use the language and letter of Yeshua himself? We must have the right of speaking and writing in our way, it is one of most important foundation of our existence.

He said he belonged to the evangelicalism and thought the Nicaea Creed is Authority, but how many kinds of evangelicalism there are? I can talk to him later but I don’t hope the leader of the church interpose, that will make things much worse. I can only communicate with one preacher there well, but seldom I can meet him. If I don’t discuss the theological problems, I can get on well with most of Christians there.
 
Upvote 0

Avodat

Contending for Biblical truth
Jul 2, 2011
4,188
315
✟21,427.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Thanks a lot for your care and advice. I feel I am not alone but have support.

He think I intentionally use the Hebrew name of Yeshua HaMashiach but avoid the Greek-Chinese Name, it is not true. In fact in Chinese environment I use the Greek-Chinese name most frequently. See my signature. I used the name Yeshua HaMashiach in the church in public only once. That name I wrote a letter to him with was Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) and [FONT=&#23435]耶穌([/FONT]Yesu[FONT=&#23435])[/FONT].

The next letter from him told me why he doubted I was a heretic . He found a guy on web who used the name of Yeshua HaMashiach and preached against “being justice by the faith”, and if one does not keep the torah and Sabbath one can not be saved. He thinks the guy as a heretic. So he asked me to use the Greek-Chinese name but not the Hebrew name, because the new covenant was revealed by Greek. Since one misused the Hebrew name, the Hebrew name can not be used. It still sounds like a joke of confusing the Logic . We can not use the language and letter of Yeshua himself? We must have the right of speaking and writing in our way, it is one of most important foundation of our existence.

He said he belonged to the evangelicalism and thought the Nicaea Creed is Authority, but how many kinds of evangelicalism there are? I can talk to him later but I don’t hope the leader of the church interpose, that will make things much worse. I can only communicate with one preacher there well, but seldom I can meet him. If I don’t discuss the theological problems, I can get on well with most of Christians there.

At least three: liberal, broad and particular. Some liberals claim to be evangelicals - they are the ones who are just to the right of standard liberals. There are people who are broadly evangelical but would not match up to the standard definition in more than one area, and there are those who are clearly evangelical and match up to the standard definition - the particular evangelicals.

The Nicene Creed is common to all Christians - whether liberal, evangelical or fundamental. It is how they interpret it that makes the real difference eg was Mary really a virgin? Quoting the Nicene Creed is no real test of being an evangelical, or not, because all Christians would say they hold to (parts of) it.

Reading your post above, I can see his point, to a certain degree. If he is using xyz as Jesus' name in his work, and you are using abc to refer to Jesus, he may feel you are undermining his teaching or confusing the people. If he is confident in his ministry it should not present a problem to him - if wouldn't bother me (and probably not Contramundum or Gxg) though we would be used to it, of course!

Respect his request and see how he reacts, if at all. When things calm down you may be able to talk to him in a more calm way about this. Remember that the Law says you must not speak against your anointed leader and Hebrews 13:17ff has a few words on these issues, too. As an evangelical you must take those words seriously.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
At least three: liberal, broad and particular. Some liberals claim to be evangelicals - they are the ones who are just to the right of standard liberals. There are people who are broadly evangelical but would not match up to the standard definition in more than one area, and there are those who are clearly evangelical and match up to the standard definition - the particular evangelicals.

The Nicene Creed is common to all Christians - whether liberal, evangelical or fundamental. It is how they interpret it that makes the real difference eg was Mary really a virgin? Quoting the Nicene Creed is no real test of being an evangelical, or not, because all Christians would say they hold to (parts of) it.

Reading your post above, I can see his point, to a certain degree. If he is using xyz as Jesus' name in his work, and you are using abc to refer to Jesus, he may feel you are undermining his teaching or confusing the people. If he is confident in his ministry it should not present a problem to him - if wouldn't bother me (and probably not Contramundum or Gxg) though we would be used to it, of course!

Respect his request and see how he reacts, if at all. When things calm down you may be able to talk to him in a more calm way about this. Remember that the Law says you must not speak against your anointed leader and Hebrews 13:17ff has a few words on these issues, too. As an evangelical you must take those words seriously.
:clap:Agree 100% and very good wisdom on the issue :thumbsup:.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
I feel I am not alone but have support.

He think I intentionally use the Hebrew name of Yeshua HaMashiach but avoid the Greek-Chinese Name, it is not true. In fact in Chinese environment I use the Greek-Chinese name most frequently. See my signature. I used the name Yeshua HaMashiach in the church in public only once. That name I wrote a letter to him with was Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) and [FONT=&#23435]耶穌([/FONT]Yesu[FONT=&#23435])[/FONT].

The next letter from him told me why he doubted I was a heretic . He found a guy on web who used the name of Yeshua HaMashiach and preached against “being justice by the faith”, and if one does not keep the torah and Sabbath one can not be saved. He thinks the guy as a heretic. So he asked me to use the Greek-Chinese name but not the Hebrew name, because the new covenant was revealed by Greek. Since one misused the Hebrew name, the Hebrew name can not be used. It still sounds like a joke of confusing the Logic . We can not use the language and letter of Yeshua himself? We must have the right of speaking and writing in our way, it is one of most important foundation of our existence.

He said he belonged to the evangelicalism and thought the Nicaea Creed is Authority, but how many kinds of evangelicalism there are? I can talk to him later but I don’t hope the leader of the church interpose, that will make things much worse. I can only communicate with one preacher there well, but seldom I can meet him. If I don’t discuss the theological problems, I can get on well with most of Christians there.


IMHO, it'd be no different than being in a Messianic Jewish fellowship and then experiencing others who may have doubts or questions because someone says "In Jesus Name" rather than "In Yeshua" - or when they pray, they say "Holy Spirit, please help.." rather than saying "Father, God..." (since many feel there can be only one way to address the Lord). Not all places are the same - just as many Messianic fellowships have no issue with others saying "Jesus" or other places in the Evangelical world have an issue with saying "Yeshua"..for many times, it's an issue of using accuracy as people are familiar with and knowing where others are coming from. And with accuracy, it can also be the case that the intent behind accuracy can be misunderstood...

I had it in working with the church I grew up in when they got shocked when it came time for the prayer/offering and announcements and I started out by saying "Shalom" to the people. Many laughed because they didn't expect it - but saying it so much with other Messianic Jews I've worked with for years, I was just tired of trying to conceal it/act as if it shouldn't be said because others in a non-denominational, Charismatic church hadn't been exposed to the idea of Gentiles who loved Jewish culture/idioms and ideology. Many in the church were aware of my working actively in a Messianic Jewish Fellowship so they knew where I was coming from - but I often did not go out of my way to bring a lot of things up due to it taking awhile to comprehend for others. Another Messianic known as Daughter of Ararat and I discussed this once before when it came to the ways others try to connect with people in the Church unfamiliar with Jewish Roots in the Scripture/Christianity (as seen in #27 )...

In many of their minds, their experiences with Jewish culture were limited and the mindset was that a Gentile doing things was trying to either "play like they were a Jew" or experiencing Judaizers - and thus, the mindset was to avoid the use of language reminiscent of what they encountered. Obviously, you don't dismiss language because of how it was abused - no more than you'd choose to no longer drive cars because of bad experiences with others who abused them or dismissing all forms of money because you encountered some counterfeits - and many have noted that conddeming others loving Jewish culture because of what they experienced in the fringes/extrmes of Hebrew Roots ...including those saying that they're saved by the Law rather than justification through Faith in the Lord,.....that's a guilt-by-association mindset that's never applied consistently.


And I had it whenever the Nicene Creed was quoted where I couldn't help but think "You already are not in agreement with many things noted since the early Nicene community was closer to what's seen in Catholic circles than what's espoused in the Protestant world...so why are you tripping whenever it's the case that other believers have a Jewish perspective/don't feel all aspects of it are necessary?"

Mark Kinzer did an excellent review on the matter in his academic paper entitled Finding our Way Through nicaea: The Deity of Yeshua, bilateral Ecclesiology, and Redemptive Encounter with the Living God - as it concerns the reality of some of the struggles that were present behind the council.....the battles over defining what Biblical Monotheism is and how to practice Christocentric Monotheism. For many Jews, to hear of "God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit" was akin to promoting polytheism - even though other Jewish Christians had no issue with the concept of Yeshua being God just as God the Father. And for many, it's a BIG deal to say "Yeshua" more than "Jesus" during the prayer.


Although Messianic Jews cannot simply accept the Nicene Creed at face value due to where it does tend to divorce itself from Jewish roots on some things, neither can they reject its truth claims out of hand. Seeing how the focus behind it was to address the issue of Arinanism amongst other things, there was a need to have clear language defined on many concepts so that others could be helped. And it was cool to see that Kinzer’s paper wraps up with a description of Messianic Jewish theology as a protest against the boundary drawn by mainstream Judaism against the deity of Yeshua. Nicene was definately on point when it came to addressing many theological issues that Messianic Jews also combat:
  • 1) That Yeshua is not eternal, but has a beginning,
  • (2) That he was created,
  • (3) That he is of a different nature than God and
  • (4) That he is changing and mutable.
The Political background of what occurred - like being unilateral, bringing the voice of the multi-national church to the table, but excluding the Jewish followers of Yeshua of that time from the discussion and allowing Constantine to play a problematic role by forcing resolution/bringing political ends into a theological discussion (and thus obscuring objectivity in favor of doing whatever it took to gain political favors)....all of that is indeed unfortunate. Nonetheless, not all Jewish roots were cast out and avoided in Nicene - no more than it's the case that all Gentile Churches lack anything Jewish because they focus mainly on the 10 commandments/other aspects rooted in a Jewish background rather than examining the full extent of how Jewish the context of the Law was.


People are people - and they're human, prone to make mistakes sadly. But the Lord can still work through it..

As Mark Kinzer said best in his paper, we cannot think about Yeshua apart from the creeds, because none of us can or even should isolate ourselves from the traditions that inform our thought. Granted, the councils that devised the creeds were anti-Judaic and that the creeds themselves lack reference to much of the biblical story (such as Israel’s history and role), meaning that the creeds are missing a major portion of the biblical message. But rather than rejecting it as many do, there are some practical ways to address it. Just as the U.S Constitution was altered or ammended to use differing language to express certain realities when it came to things like slavery or women's rights (with the language in the document meaning one thing in that era but later being used to express something different), it can go a long way to recognize that the creeds need some alternative language or to be summarized for MJ community in alternative language. My Messianic fellowship supports the Creeds - but we understand how they can be troublesome for others in seeing certain things. One person said it best when saying that the creeds are like the traditional Siddur. For many people look at the Jewish prayer book and say, “These prayers are man-made" - ignorantly failing to realize that the Siddur beautifully/ masterfully combines truths, verses, and phrases from all over the Bible into a consistent theology of prayer...and likewise, although the Christian creeds distill the essence of many scriptures in a manner that places them at times into abstract, philosophical language, it nonetheless masterfully avoid errors which will demean the glory of God and Jesus and positively express the mysteries of the faith

But yea,....Relationship always makes the difference.. And it's best to honor where you're at, wherever that may be. It goes a long way..:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yusuphhai
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Thanks a lot for your care and advice. I feel I am not alone but have support.

He think I intentionally use the Hebrew name of Yeshua HaMashiach but avoid the Greek-Chinese Name, it is not true. In fact in Chinese environment I use the Greek-Chinese name most frequently. See my signature. I used the name Yeshua HaMashiach in the church in public only once. That name I wrote a letter to him with was Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) and [FONT=&#23435]耶穌([/FONT]Yesu[FONT=&#23435])[/FONT].

The next letter from him told me why he doubted I was a heretic . He found a guy on web who used the name of Yeshua HaMashiach and preached against “being justice by the faith”, and if one does not keep the torah and Sabbath one can not be saved. He thinks the guy as a heretic. So he asked me to use the Greek-Chinese name but not the Hebrew name, because the new covenant was revealed by Greek. Since one misused the Hebrew name, the Hebrew name can not be used. It still sounds like a joke of confusing the Logic . We can not use the language and letter of Yeshua himself? We must have the right of speaking and writing in our way, it is one of most important foundation of our existence.
.

Technically,

If one wants to ever make the case that the Lord would only use the Greek, they're already at odds with scripture since the Lord never had the mindset that the New Covenant was revealed in Greek - and that's no different than those in camps for Judaizing whenever they claim that anything Greek is corrupt and that only Jewish names could be used because that was the original culture (more discussed here on that in #25 ).....never mind the Jewish believers who lived in DIaspora and who also had experiences in Greek Culture.

There are many good/solid reads on the issue which go into great depth on the matter to bring the issue home...and if interested, there's an excellent work on the issue entitled In the Shadow of the Temple: Jewish Influences on Early Christianity (more shared here /here) you may consider trying to invest in/buy. It is an excellent work in regards to explaining what it was like for Jews in the Diaspora and what they did when it came to Greek and Hebrew names/idioms used simultaneously to convey God's Law/Truth to others. For more, one can go here...







The Lord would have used multiple languages to communicate (nor did the apostles - more shared here in #5, #6, #7 )...and as the Messiah, he could have easily since others often came to him from areas where the Hebrew was not in view. Again, even Christ did not simply speak one language. For He also spoke in Aramic...and apparently, Greek as well. He'd need to know multiple languages as others did (including the disciples ) since there were multiple cultures within the Roman Empire.

Something else to consider is the reality of how Palestine was developed. For given that it was always a crossroads for entire peoples in their spontaneous, and often times forced, migrations, was by necessity a multi-lingual land. It was a place where they spoke several languages at the same time. That is, in the times of Jesus, there were no less than two local languages spoken and understood by the majority of the people: Hebrew and Aramaic. Two “international” languages were also used: Greek and Latin.

People didn't live in a linguistic vacuum. ..and its more reasonable to conclude that the Lord spoke Aramaic from the cross because He wanted to be understood rather than He spoke Aramaic so He wouldn't be understood.

Thus, when he communicated the scriptures to those who were Greek or Greek Speaking (such as Hellenistic Jews), they would have heard it in their own tongue just as the Jews who spoke Hebrew would have heard the scriptures in their own as well. Recall the group of Greeks who came to hear of Christ/His teachings ( John 12:19-26 ). ..and for that matter, the woman with the posessed daughter ( Mark 7:25-27 ), as she was Greek. John 7:34-36 also notes that many at one point supposed that it was more than possible that Christ may've gone to teach the Greeks about the Scriptures/who He was when they didn't know where to find him. There'd be no need to assume Christ would teach them solely in the Hebrew since they needed to understand it in their language.

Moreover, If everyone was to know Him only as Yeshua THROUGH the Hebrew rather than being familar in other languages, there would have been no need to write His Name in its other transliterated forms of Greek and Latin on the sign above Him.
John 19:19-20
19 And Pilate wrote a title and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
20 Then many of the Jews read this title, for the place where Jesus was crucified was near the city, and it was written in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin.


  • Hebrew: Yeshua haNotzri Melech haYehudim
  • Greek: Iesous ho Nazoraios ho Basileus ton Ioudaion
  • Latin: Iesus Nazarenus Rex Iudaeorum
Even the disciples seemed to show that they spoke in differing languages...as seen here

John 20:16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned toward him and cried out in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means “Teacher”).
If one wishes to be technical, it was not always the case that even the Jews themselves spoke Hebrew all the time. One can go to 2 Kings 18:25-27 and Isaiah 36:10-12 for a clear example when the Israelities asked another to speak to them in Aramaic since they didn't understand Hebrew.

With this in mind, its interesting to see how Stephen---who was apparently bilingual and was often quoting from the Greek Version of the Scriptures---brought up the point about Moses when saying how he was educated in all the ways of the Egyptians when it came to learning.
"Acts 7:22
Moses was educated in all the wisdom of the Egyptians and was powerful in speech and action. 21 When he was placed outside, Pharaoh’s daughter took him and brought him up as her own son. 23 “When Moses was forty years old, he decided to visit his own people, the Israelites. 24 He saw one of them being mistreated by an Egyptian, so he went to his defense and avenged him by killing the Egyptian. 25 Moses thought that his own people would realize that God was using him to rescue them, but they did not. 26 The next day Moses came upon two Israelites who were fighting. He tried to reconcile them by saying, ‘Men, you are brothers; why do you want to hurt each other?’

27 “But the man who was mistreating the other pushed Moses aside and said, ‘Who made you ruler and judge over us? 28 Are you thinking of killing me as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’[a] 29 When Moses heard this, he fled to Midian, where he settled as a foreigner and had two sons.
Exodus 1-2 also gives more info on the matter, as it concerns the background of Moses and how he not only had to know the language of foreigners...but that of the Egyptians themselves. Its why throughout the Exodus Narrative (Exodus 4-14 ), many scholars have made clear that Moses would have had to know how to translate what he knew of God into Egyptian. The same concept can be seen prior to that with the instance of Joseph when it came to his slavery/redemption in Egyptian Slavery (Genesis 37-44). For when he became the most powerful man in Egypt, even he needed an interpreter when it came to his brothers from Cannan ( Genesis 42:22-24 ).

If that was the case historically, it makes no logical sense for anyone - Jew or Gentile - to insist that the name of the Messiah can only be said ONE Way.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Gxg (G²)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)
Site Supporter
Jan 25, 2009
19,765
1,428
Good Ol' South...
Visit site
✟160,220.00
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
If he is using xyz as Jesus' name in his work, and you are using abc to refer to Jesus, he may feel you are undermining his teaching or confusing the people. If he is confident in his ministry it should not present a problem to him - if wouldn't bother me (and probably not Contramundum or Gxg) though we would be used to it, of course!

Respect his request and see how he reacts, if at all. .
Sometimes, understanding for certain things take time - and exposure. For many, to throw out a thought (even if it's accurate) cannot be received well due to the ways that they've been trained to see the thought in a negative light/filter - and if they've not done their own research properly, it can be futile. Some things occur organically rather than through transfer of information alone - be it the person thinking you can only say the name of the Lord via xyz as Jesus..or the other saying you can only use abc to refer to Jesus...and those who want accuracy/wish to be fair-minded can get caught in the middle of both sides due to how both sides can be entrenched in their thoughts and really wanting to glorify the Lord - but they cannot see that the way they go about it is limited.
 
Upvote 0

Avodat

Contending for Biblical truth
Jul 2, 2011
4,188
315
✟21,427.00
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Private
Gxg (G²);62797237 said:
Sometimes, understanding for certain things take time - and exposure. For many, to throw out a thought (even if it's accurate) cannot be received well due to the ways that they've been trained to see the thought in a negative light/filter - and if they've not done their own research properly, it can be futile. Some things occur organically rather than through transfer of information alone - be it the person thinking you can only say the name of the Lord via xyz as Jesus..or the other saying you can only use abc to refer to Jesus...and those who want accuracy/wish to be fair-minded can get caught in the middle of both sides due to how both sides can be entrenched in their thoughts and really wanting to glorify the Lord - but they cannot see that the way they go about it is limited.

Depending on where their doctoral studies were completed, I would have thought they should be quite capable of dealing with most possible variations, unless the doctorates were 'bought' from one of those back street 'Universities' that seem to proliferate in some parts of the world. :)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
D

dnc101

Guest
Thanks a lot for your care and advice. I feel I am not alone but have support.
People are praying for you, and if you serve Gd you are never alone. Easy to say from here, but true nonetheless.

He think I intentionally use the Hebrew name of Yeshua HaMashiach but avoid the Greek-Chinese Name, it is not true. In fact in Chinese environment I use the Greek-Chinese name most frequently. See my signature. I used the name Yeshua HaMashiach in the church in public only once. That name I wrote a letter to him with was Jesus Christ (Yeshua HaMashiach) and
[FONT=&#23435]耶穌([/FONT]Yesu[FONT=&#23435])[/FONT].
The next letter from him told me why he doubted I was a heretic . He found a guy on web who used the name of Yeshua HaMashiach and preached against “being justice by the faith”, and if one does not keep the torah and Sabbath one can not be saved. He thinks the guy as a heretic. So he asked me to use the Greek-Chinese name but not the Hebrew name, because the new covenant was revealed by Greek. Since one misused the Hebrew name, the Hebrew name can not be used. It still sounds like a joke of confusing the Logic . We can not use the language and letter of Yeshua himself? We must have the right of speaking and writing in our way, it is one of most important foundation of our existence.
It is a sad fact of life, but we are never really punished by men for what we did. We are punished according to their PERCEPTION of what we did. Sometimes this means we are punished, or disciplined, because they have an inaccurate perception of what we did or meant. It sounds like this may be the case here.

He said he belonged to the evangelicalism and thought the Nicaea Creed is Authority, but how many kinds of evangelicalism there are? I can talk to him later but I don’t hope the leader of the church interpose, that will make things much worse. I can only communicate with one preacher there well, but seldom I can meet him. If I don’t discuss the theological problems, I can get on well with most of Christians there.
As has been said, those things could mean anything as most claim them even if they don't strictly adhere to them. Find out if he is sponsored and if so by who.

In any event, I recommend you keep the lines of communication open and not be too eager to leave. But that decision is really up to you.

One last thing- your English is good. It's a lot better than my Chinese, for sure! But I am trying (with limited success) to learn Hebrew, and so am a little more sensitive now to people who are speaking a language other than their primary one. If you don't understand anything I say, don't hesitate to ask for clarification. Even if it's just the way I say it- some of these native English speakers may be asking me for clarification too! :)

Keep to your faith,

Dan C
 
Upvote 0

visionary

Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I.
Site Supporter
Mar 25, 2004
56,925
8,040
✟575,802.44
Faith
Messianic
Think of it this way... it is a spiritual journey, and it sounds like this Pastor isn't as far up the road as you are on this matter, so be tolerant, long suffering, like a good shepherd to him. His flock is probably even slower than he is at getting as far up the path as you are at.
 
Upvote 0

ChavaK

להיות טוב ולעשות טוב
May 12, 2005
8,524
1,803
US
✟158,270.00
Country
United States
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Republican
People are free to define heresy as they wish. Who cares what others think?

Muslims condemn you too, and Hindus think you don't have the ultimate truth, so what?

I would agree. A lot of people don't like Jews. A lot of people hate Jews.
I really don't care what they believe and think as long as they leave us
alone. They are free to believe what they want, but they are not free
to act upon those beliefs.

When I run into someone who doesn't agree with my beliefs, I don't think they are anti-semitic.
They simply don't agree with my beliefs.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Notzri

Newbie
Sep 4, 2013
2
2
✟15,132.00
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Single
"The Church" left its roots when it began teaching that it has replaced Israel it G-d's plan and purposes for this world. In the world to come there is no division we will be one as Av and Ben are one in spirit and in truth. For now my brother we see as in a glass darkly as the apostle says in his letter. All we can do is work and strive for unity. Plead for it amongst our brethren and bear the wounds that they will give us. Our master promised us these wounds. Let our anthem be the words of the Psalm Henei ma tov uma naim
Shevet achim gam yachad. Blessing and peace upon you my brother.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Yusuphhai
Upvote 0