Musings on venial sin

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nyj

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I can imagine that in this day and age, society as a whole has become somewhat desensitized to sin. One only needs to look at the television programming that dominates the "prime time" slots to see that some behavior is readily acceptable. Showtime gives us the visual gem known as "Queer as Folk" which mainstreams homosexuality. Shows like Survivor and its ilk show us that selfish-ness is the norm and the ends quite often justify the means. Game shows like "Do You Want to Be a Millionaire?" continually coax us into a "somethings ARE for free" mentality. Not to mention the spin-off "Do You Want to Marry a Millionaire?" which totally mocked the sacrament of marriage. And I haven't even touched on the showing of gratuitous violence (just check your local news) or sexual depravity (Tempation Island).

With sin becoming so en vogue how can we expect society to understand right from wrong nowadays? On September 11th, 2001 the United States was outraged and shocked by the atrocities that occurred, and well they should have. Yet a far greater holocaust occurs daily in the abortion clinics and hardly a person makes a sound. So when I look at our society today, I can only notice that we are slowly losing our perception of what is right, just, and moral as opposed to what is wrong, unjust, and immoral.

Nevermind that we're just talking about mortal sins here.

In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 1863, it states:
Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul's progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin.

It is my perception that people quite often nowadays ignore venial sins, simply because we either cannot recognize them anymore or we fail to recognize the inherent seriousness of any and all sin. I believe we are very good at rationalizing away the importance of these sins, though the Catholic Church is quite adamant in her warning to us that venial sin can and does open the door to mortal sin. Since venial sin appears to be the acceptable societal standard for today, since venial sin seems to be demanded of us by our peers, surely it isn't wrong... is it?

Oh you better believe it's still wrong. Morality is an absolute, the bar is not raised or lowered depending on society. In other words: The bar has been permanently fixed by God. It is something we are called, as Christians, to strive to obtain. And if we cannot obtain it, we are called to seek God's help in the Person of His Son, Jesus Christ.

But do we do that? How many times do we as Catholics, partake of the Sacrament of Reconciliation (ie: Penance / Confession) and repeat the same venial sins time after time? If we continually commit these offenses, are we really taking steps to rectify these faults?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, in paragraph 1451, states:
Among the penitent's acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."

Allow me to emphasize the last parts of that paragraph... "...detestation for the sin committed..." which means that that particular sin that we have just confessed should go on our "I should watch out for this particular sin and avoid performing it at all costs." and "...together with the resolution not to sin again." Isn't it the goal of the Christian to never need the Sacrament of Confession? Yes!

So why are we continually going to Confession and confessing the same sins over and over and over again?

The answer of course is because we're human, we have free-will and our nature is only a perversion of what God originally intended for us. However that does not mean that we should give ourselves over to this perversion and just accept it for what it is. That sort of despair is why the world is going to "hell in a handbasket" in the first place. Rather, we should recognize our faults and struggle to correct them at every available opportunity. We need to stop simply worrying about what may or may not constitute a mortal sin but worry about our daily habits which make those mortal sins even remotely possible.

C.S. Lewis put venial sins in perspective for me in his book entitled The Screwtape Letters. In Chapter 12, Screwtape (a senior demon) is talking to his nephew Wormwood (an "up and coming" demon) on how to steer his subject (an unsuspecting human) to hell...

You will say that these are very small sins; and doubtless, like all young tempters, you are anxious to be able to report spectacular wickedness. But do remember, the only thing that matters is the extent to which you separate the man from the Enemy [God]. It does not matter how small the sins are, provided that their cumulative effect is to edge the man away from the Light and out into the Nothing. Murder is no better than cards if cards can do the trick. Indeed, the safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.

So, do you plan on being the best darn poker player in Hell?
 

Tyler

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God hates all sin, and all men have sinned no one can claim he is good. No man always does what is right and never sins. When you repent of your sins, believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins, and you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord God and saviour. You will be saved. You can't earn your way to heaven, you can't buy your way to heaven and you can't barter your way there either. It's a free gift of salvation, and you can only get there by believing in God's only begotten son Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ Forgives!
 
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nyj

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God hates all sin, and all men have sinned no one can claim he is good.

Yes, I agree. I also don't recall saying anything contrary to that position in my musings.

No man always does what is right and never sins.

Once again, I agree. I also don't recall saying anything that would even imply this. However, do you mean to tell me that we should just "take it sitting down"? The "it" being the fact that we sin? Aren't we supposed to turn away from sin as Christians?

When you repent of your sins, believe in your heart that Jesus died for your sins, and you confess with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord God and saviour.

Any Catholic that goes to confession and makes a truly repentance believes this. In other words, you're preaching to the choir here Tyler.

You will be saved.

Our salvation is not assured. That is why Paul tells us to continually run the race.

You can't earn your way to heaven, you can't buy your way to heaven and you can't barter your way there either.It's a free gift of salvation, and you can only get there by believing in God's only begotten son Jesus Christ.

Did I say anything that would indicate otherwise? I don't recall saying anything contrary to this position, which is something all Catholics believe. Once again Tyler, you are preaching to the choir.
 
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Tyler

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First of all I am a catholic, a born again one. I know you agree with most points! However your salvation is assured! It's a free gift nyj ! Acts16:31,32 They aked, what must I do to be saved ? So they said; Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved! If you can earn your way into heaven than you make God out to be a liar and fool. For if you can get to heaven any other way other than the cross, than Jesus Christ died for nothing. This is the good news it is a free gift! Of course God wants us to finish the race. After we are saved are we not supposed to go out and witness to others the good news? The whole gospel of John deals with this very issue. After your saved you can earn a crown of righteousness. You can only be saved By Christs sacrifice first.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life!

Jesus Christ Forgives.
 
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nyj

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First of all I am a catholic, a born again one.

All Catholics are born again Tyler. I also noticed you didn't capitalize the word "Catholic" so I'm going to go out on a limb and say that you do not see the Pope as the Shepherd of the Church Militant... am I correct?

However your salvation is assured!

Nope, it's not.

Romans 11:22
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.

Doesn't sound like assurance to me.

Hebrews 10:26-29
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?

Another warning against receiving the truth and then backing away from it.

2 Peter 2:20-21
For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overpowered, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them.

A clear indication that we can fall away after being true believers. Care to reconsider your position?

It's a free gift nyj !

Of course it is a free gift. None of us are worthy, but no one said we could never accept the gift and then "think twice about it" and wind up rejecting it later on when we feel it doesn't "suit our purposes".

So they said; Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved!

And what if they decide they don't want to believe anymore?

If you can earn your way into heaven than you make God out to be a liar and fool.

You are tilting at windmills, no one said anything about earning their way into heaven Tyler.

For if you can get to heaven any other way other than the cross, than Jesus Christ died for nothing.

Preaching to the choir.

This is the good news it is a free gift!

You already said that.

Of course God wants us to finish the race. After we are saved are we not supposed to go out and witness to others the good news?

That was not what Paul was talking about.

2 Titus 4:7
I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Our salvation is dependent upon our cooperation with Christ in such a sense as that cooperation entails our continual acceptance of Him and His message.
 
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Tyler

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Your presuming that once a person is saved, he then goes out and turns against God? That can happen, but a backslider can be reconciled to God again, if he asks forgiveness. Your wrong nyj all Catholics are not all born again, anymore than being protestant makes you born again. I have kept the faith. That means the good news of Jesus Christ! Does everyone fall away who hears the good news? Tell me nyj did the thief who died on the cross beside Christ, did he inherit salvation? Luke23:42,43
Then he said to Jesus "Lord remember me when you come into your kingdom".
And Jesus said to him. Assuredly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
If a person is saved and dies one second later he will live forever with Christ! The Pope is the leader of the church, however he is not infallible, he is only human. Only God is infallible! Sorry nyj have to hit the old bed, got this nasty habit of going to work! Lol

God Bless& Good Night!
 
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nyj

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Your presuming that once a person is saved, he then goes out and turns against God?

I'm not presuming it. I know it can happen, I know it's a possibility. How do I know? Because I am a sinner, and I have rejected God time and again to suit my own whims. And prior to that rejection, I was a firm believer in God and I tried to live according to His will. So I know that someone can turn against God after accepting Him into their life.

That can happen, but a backslider can be reconciled to God again, if he asks forgiveness.

I have no problem with that. Matter of fact, all Catholics believe this. But what if that backslider doesn't ask for forgiveness Tyler?

Your wrong nyj all Catholics are not all born again, anymore than being protestant makes you born again.

Perhaps cafeteria Catholics are not born again, but I'd dare say all (and I know "all" is a hefty word to be throwing around) the Catholics here are born again.

I have kept the faith.

You are also still alive (remember, Paul's second epitle to Titus was immediately prior to his execution) and may have plenty of time to lose that faith. Of course, we all pray that no one loses their faith though.

That means the good news of Jesus Christ! Does everyone fall away who hears the good news?

How am I supposed to know? Some may, some may not. That is not my concern though Tyler. All I know is that Paul and Peter warn me from guarding against falling away. I cannot worry about everyone else, I can only worry about me. As far as what "falling away" means, I could say that every man is indeed capable of falling away. Whether they do or not depends on how they walk with the Lord.

Tell me nyj did the thief who died on the cross beside Christ, did he inherit salvation?

He inherited salvation in the sense that he proclaimed the divinity of the Lord, Jesus Christ. That that salvation was freely bestowed upon him, no one would argue.


If a person is saved and dies one second later he will live forever with Christ!

Who denied that? Certainly not I.

The Pope is the leader of the church, however he is not infallible, he is only human.

This is what I thought. You are not Catholic. Indeed, the Pope is only a man, but his office is bestowed with a particular charism of the Holy Spirit, promised by Christ for the continual guidance of His Church.

Only God is infallible!

And if God seeks to divinely inspire His creation, who are we to quibble? Surely you accept this divine inspiration, or do you not trust in the divine inspiration of your Bible?
 
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VOW

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Originally posted by Tyler
Your presuming that once a person is saved, he then goes out and turns against God? That can happen, but a backslider can be reconciled to God again, if he asks forgiveness.

Absolutely! That's what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is all about! Do NOT make the mistake that many non-Catholics (and some Catholics as well) make; Reconciliation is not "earning" salvation through works.


]Originally posted by Tyler If a person is saved and dies one second later he will live forever with Christ!

Again, absolutely! BUT....suppose a "saved" person dies during the commission of a sin? What if you are killed in a traffic accident where you broke a law which caused the accident?

Methinks you need to study Catholicism, Tyler. Find out what it's really about, not what "born again" folks believe.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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KC Catholic

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Please remember..this is not a debate forum. Dicussion of our faith and beliefs is allowed - but challenges and putting someone on the defensive is not allowed here.

Please open debate threads in the Interfaith forum.

Thanks!
 
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LilyLamb

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NYJ - excellent study!

The bar has been permanently fixed by God

Amen to that!!!

I think what Tyler needs to realize is that Catholics adhere to the OSNAS agenda not the OSAS agenda ;)

That's Once Saved Not Always Saved ... you can walk away from your faith ... we should always be careful not to sin and if we sin to immediately confess and repent of that sin - repent as in not needing to return to confession because we indeed "detest" the sin and do not repeat it.

Excellent points - thanks for bringing this up.
 
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