Having trouble finding a church with TE POV

Pats · Mar 8, 2013

Hi. I used to be a full on Southern Baptist, YEC.

A while back, and thanks to some people who are still here

, I became a TE.

I am now engaged to a TE. I haven't been to church in a long time and the only ones I know are conservative and creationist of one sort or another.

I don't know how to go about finding a church that is open to TE that will also match my beliefs.... but my fiance doesn't want to step a foot into a YEC church. Help? Anyone? Advice please.

Sincerely,

Pats

Papias · Mar 8, 2013

Funny - a nearly identical question was just posted on this forum, just a few threads down.

From that:

Many, many churches would welcome you. Most mainline Protestant (Episcopal, ELCA Lutheran, PCUSA Presbyterian and UMC Methodist are all the biggest of their type), plus the Catholic church are fine with Theistic Evolution, among others. In fact, the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal church is a former biological scientist, who has published papers in scientific journals.

Papias
__________________

pgp_protector · Mar 17, 2013

First look for a Church with a Jesus POV.
TE or YEC are NOT Salvation Issues.

hedrick · Mar 17, 2013

I agree that mainline churches accept TE. However the more open half of evangelical churches do also. I'm a member of a mainline church (PCUSA). I think mainline theology matches Jesus' teachings better than more conservative churches. But you don't actually have to go to a liberal church to find TE or openness to it.

Aman777 · Mar 18, 2013

Hedrick:>>I agree that mainline churches accept TE. However the more open half of evangelical churches do also. I'm a member of a mainline church (PCUSA).

Dear Hedrick, I understand that the PCUSA believes the Bible. How can you read Genesis 2:4-7, which shows that man was formed from the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day long before any other living creature, and also believe man evolved from other living creatures?

In Love,
Aman

hedrick · Mar 18, 2013

Aman777 said:
Hedrick:>>I agree that mainline churches accept TE. However the more open half of evangelical churches do also. I'm a member of a mainline church (PCUSA).

Dear Hedrick, I understand that the PCUSA believes the Bible. How can you read Genesis 2:4-7, which shows that man was formed from the dust of the ground on the 3rd Day long before any other living creature, and also believe man evolved from other living creatures?

In Love,
Aman

There are plenty of discussions in inerrancy and other implications of "literal" interpretation. If you aren't familiar with any of this, I can point you to some other threads. I don't think such a discussion is appropriate for this thread.

Aman777 · Mar 19, 2013

hedrick said:
There are plenty of discussions in inerrancy and other implications of "literal" interpretation. If you aren't familiar with any of this, I can point you to some other threads. I don't think such a discussion is appropriate for this thread.

Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

In Love,
Aman

theFijian · Mar 20, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

In Love,
Aman

The use of the word 'just' is a dead giveaway.

Aman777 · Mar 20, 2013

Originally Posted by Aman777

Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

Fijian:>>The use of the word 'just' is a dead giveaway.

Dear Fijian, Correct. Theistic Evolutionists cannot explain how or when we evolved our human intelligence IF Adam was not literal. This is because only Adam and God have the higher human intelligence which is superior to ANY creature whose origin was in the water. Genesis 3:22

Many of them flee and ignore God's Truth because it destroys their beloved Theory of Evolution. That way they can claim that NO one has refuted the object of their faith.

In Love,
Aman

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

pgp_protector said:
First look for a Church with a Jesus POV.
TE or YEC are NOT Salvation Issues.

I have to agree with you, there. However, my fiance doesn't know Jesus as his personal Lord and Saviour and he allows this issue to become a stumbling block. Tho, the church we are to visit together this Sunday focuses on Grace, tho they happen to be YEC. I just want him to accept the Lord as his Savior, as I am born again.

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

hedrick said:
I agree that mainline churches accept TE. However the more open half of evangelical churches do also. I'm a member of a mainline church (PCUSA). I think mainline theology matches Jesus' teachings better than more conservative churches. But you don't actually have to go to a liberal church to find TE or openness to it.

I just have unsaved friends and a fiance who allow this issue to be a stumbling block to their personal salvation. And yes, a lot of my views are more conservative.

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

In Love,
Aman

I cannot believe you want to turn this simple post for help into this debate right here in this thread?

OK... I just don't take Gensis literally. Why does it have to be literal in order for us to accept it as God's Holy Word?

Aman777 · Mar 23, 2013

Originally Posted by Aman777

Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

Pats:>>I cannot believe you want to turn this simple post for help into this debate right here in this thread?

Dear Pat, Isn't this the thread to discuss Theistic Evolution?

Pat:>>OK... I just don't take Gensis literally. Why does it have to be literal in order for us to accept it as God's Holy Word?

Genesis Chapter 1 is the entire History of the 6 Creative Days or Ages. ALL of the rest of Scripture can be traced back to this outline of the work of God on these Days. Genesis 2:1-3 is the History of a future Day or Age, the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

In order to be saved, one must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING to the Scriptures. How can one change God's Truth into myth or believe that it is only figuratively true, and still claim to be a Christian? Those who do not believe the Bible is God's Truth can make it say anything they wish. Right?

In Love,
Aman

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

Aman777 said:
Originally Posted by Aman777

Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

Pats:>>I cannot believe you want to turn this simple post for help into this debate right here in this thread?

Dear Pat, Isn't this the thread to discuss Theistic Evolution?

Pat:>>OK... I just don't take Gensis literally. Why does it have to be literal in order for us to accept it as God's Holy Word?

Genesis Chapter 1 is the entire History of the 6 Creative Days or Ages. ALL of the rest of Scripture can be traced back to this outline of the work of God on these Days. Genesis 2:1-3 is the History of a future Day or Age, the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

In order to be saved, one must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING to the Scriptures. How can one change God's Truth into myth or believe that it is only figuratively true, and still claim to be a Christian? Those who do not believe the Bible is God's Truth can make it say anything they wish. Right?

In Love,
Aman

Actually, this thread was started to discuss where a TE might find a church with a TE POV. You're skewing it into another conversation entirely.

However, I believe in Christ's literal death on the cross and his grace being sufficiant for me, I need not justify any of it to you or any one else here.

The YEC POV is a stumbling block to many and I no longer identify with it.

In His Love,
Pats

Assyrian · Mar 23, 2013

Aman777 said:
Originally Posted by Aman777
Dear Hedrick, I may be mistaken but don't TEs teach that we evolved from creatures which lived before us? I didn't know that they also believe that God's Holy Word was just speaking metaforically about the formation of Adam. Please advise.

Pats:>>I cannot believe you want to turn this simple post for help into this debate right here in this thread?

Dear Pat, Isn't this the thread to discuss Theistic Evolution?

Pat:>>OK... I just don't take Gensis literally. Why does it have to be literal in order for us to accept it as God's Holy Word?

Genesis Chapter 1 is the entire History of the 6 Creative Days or Ages. ALL of the rest of Scripture can be traced back to this outline of the work of God on these Days. Genesis 2:1-3 is the History of a future Day or Age, the 7th Day, which is Eternity.

In order to be saved, one must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, ACCORDING to the Scriptures. How can one change God's Truth into myth or believe that it is only figuratively true, and still claim to be a Christian? Those who do not believe the Bible is God's Truth can make it say anything they wish. Right?

In Love,
Aman

Given that you don't take the seven days as literal days, how can you criticise other people who don't take them literally? But this is all beside the point. The Theistic Evolution sub forum may be for discussing TE, but this thread is specifically to discuss difficulties in finding a TE church. Lets stick to the topic.

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

Assyrian said:
Given that you don't take the seven days as literal days, how can you criticise other people who don't take them literally? But this is all beside the point. The Theistic Evolution sub forum may be for discussing TE, but this thread is specifically to discuss difficulties in finding a TE church. Lets stick to the topic.

Thanks for that, Assyrian. I allow myself to wander from time to time, too.

Assyrian · Mar 23, 2013

Pats said:
I have to agree with you, there. However, my fiance doesn't know Jesus as his personal Lord and Saviour and he allows this issue to become a stumbling block. Tho, the church we are to visit together this Sunday focuses on Grace, tho they happen to be YEC. I just want him to accept the Lord as his Savior, as I am born again.

Yes I can see the problem, if a church or minister ruin's their credibility in your fiance's eyes by being anti-science it would make it a lot more difficult for him to receive what they say about grace.

Aman777 · Mar 23, 2013

Pats:>>Actually, this thread was started to discuss where a TE might find a church with a TE POV. You're skewing it into another conversation entirely.

Dear Pats, That's because I cannot believe that there's a Christian Church which teaches that it's ok to teach that Adam evolved from creatures made BEFORE he was.

Pats:>>However, I believe in Christ's literal death on the cross and his grace being sufficiant for me, I need not justify any of it to you or any one else here.

I agree but the Gospel tells us we must believe ACCORDING to the Scriptures, which TEs seem to dismiss when it comes to Genesis.

Pats:>>The YEC POV is a stumbling block to many and I no longer identify with it.

Me too. Genesis teaches that the first Day or Age began some 25 Billion years ago. The Big Bang of our Cosmos was on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the first Earth was made. Genesis 2:4 The first Earth was made the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10. This was some 14 Billion years ago in man's time. A correct interpretation of Genesis shows that God's Holy Word agrees in every way with every discovery of Science and History.

In Love,
Aman

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

Assyrian said:
Yes I can see the problem, if a church or minister ruin's their credibility in your fiance's eyes by being anti-science it would make it a lot more difficult for him to receive what they say about grace.

Hence, my dilema. There is a church I want to go to this Sunday.

I haven't even been to church in over 2 years. I fell away for personal reasons we need not dig up here.

But I've been dating my fiance for quite a long time, I'm living with him, and I would like to marry him. He's not born again as I am.

I want to find a church as focused on grace as the one I intend to go to this Sunday. However, I know that they are YEC's. It does concern me for exactly the reason you said.

I don't think origins is necessarily a big thing when it comes to choosing a church. However, I fear it may be for him.

I don't know. I'm praying about it.

Thanks,
Pats

Pats · Mar 23, 2013

Aman777 said:
Pats:>>Actually, this thread was started to discuss where a TE might find a church with a TE POV. You're skewing it into another conversation entirely.

Dear Pats, That's because I cannot believe that there's a Christian Church which teaches that it's ok to teach that Adam evolved from creatures made BEFORE he was.

Pats:>>However, I believe in Christ's literal death on the cross and his grace being sufficiant for me, I need not justify any of it to you or any one else here.

I agree but the Gospel tells us we must believe ACCORDING to the Scriptures, which TEs seem to dismiss when it comes to Genesis.

Pats:>>The YEC POV is a stumbling block to many and I no longer identify with it.

Me too. Genesis teaches that the first Day or Age began some 25 Billion years ago. The Big Bang of our Cosmos was on the 3rd Day, the SAME Day the first Earth was made. Genesis 2:4 The first Earth was made the 3rd Day. Genesis 1:9-10. This was some 14 Billion years ago in man's time. A correct interpretation of Genesis shows that God's Holy Word agrees in every way with every discovery of Science and History.

In Love,
Aman

Perhaps you and I could have this conversation else where.

Having trouble finding a church with TE POV

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