Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
Now we are agreeing Thadman!
The King of Kings spoke in the language that everyone understood then! Greek! (the lingua franca at the time!)...and isn't this very much like Jesus anyway...speaking in such a way that everyone could understand...
Er, no. The linga franca of Judea was Aramaic. Coins and papers unearthed proved this.
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
Right on Br. Max.,
Here's geographic-historical evidence that Jesus spoke Greek (along with some textual evidence):
The Sea of Galilee had many cities surrounding it: Jewish and non-Jewish. Significant for our discussion, the Sea of Galilee was surrounded by Greek Cities. (In fact, the seven cities to whom the Book of Revelation is written to are ALL Greek).
Well, if the Book of Revelation was written in Greek:
Then why is the Alpha and Omega the "to alfa kai to
o" instead of "to alpha kai to
omega" being spelled out? Also know that the single letter omega looks quite like the last letter of the Aramaic alphabet (tau) spelled out.
Secondly, why the heck was Jezebel thrown into a bed (of all things)? Funny how the Aramaic word for "bed" can mean "coffin" too.
Thirdly, why does the Greek grammar of Revelation even make koine Greek scholars cry while the grammar makes sense to Hebrew and Aramaic speakers?
Could it be a translation of a semitic language?
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
1) Remember that near Tyre and Sidon, He had a conversation with a Greek Lady (it is not unreasonable to assume that Jesus spoke in Greek to her).
Er, she's a SYRIO-PHONECIAN woman. Syria is where one of the modern dialects of Aramaic (Syriac) is spoken today. Plus, the Aramaic MSS (and Old Latin, if I remember correctly) along with a bunch of other MSS in other languages use the term "gentile" not Greek.
Funny also how "the Jew and the Greek" are paired up as it should be "Jew and Gentile" for there were Greek Jews to the far north at the time. On top of that, it's also funny how "preach to the Jew first and then the Greek" is not all-inclusive. Many people who are non-Jew are also non-Greek.
To the JEW first and then the GENTILE.
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
2)Jews themselves said that He spoke Greek:
Where does this man intend to go that we cannot find him? Will he go where our people live scattered among the Greeks, and teach the Greeks?
-John 7:35
You're using the Greek MSS to prove that he spoke Greek (circular reasoning)? In the other (non-Greek) MSS, the word is "gentile."
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
Are we to suppose that Jesus (the same Jesus that bent down to wash his disciple's feet) spoke in a language less than accessible to the world or even these Greeks?
Irrelevant
How does this have any bearing on the facts? Suppositions mean nothing. Evidence is what we're looking for.
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
3) Finally, Revelations 22:16 reveals a clear quotation from Jesus...and yes... it's in Greek. He says, "I, Jesus...." or in Greek, "Iesous".
GAK! More circular reasoning! In the Aramaic MSS, it says "I, Yeshu'" in the Latin is says "I, Iasous" in the Coptic, it says "I, Eesoos" this proves nothing.
Was Jesus quoted saying the Lord's Prayer in Greek in the Greek manuscripts?
Yep.
Does it rhyme and have meter in the Greek?
Nopers. But it does in the Aramaic.
SAME thing with the beatitudes (and a LOT of his other teachings, which are quoted in Greek in the Greek, but in Aramaic, there's something more). Idioms are poorly translated into Greek, as well as wordplay which doesn't exist in the language. Also see above about Revelation's "smoking guns."
Originally posted by Prodigious Prime
Taken together as a whole, this evidence can give us peace in knowing that God did indeed, give His actual word (and not an unexact copy) to His chuch as He intended it (whether it be RCC or Protestant).
We can take the New Testament at its word.
We can take Jesus at His word.
-Thanks
My friend, I strongly suggest that you give my website a thorough look through before we continue (the link's in my signature). The proofs you've given me really HEAVILY rest on circular reasoning.
Shlomo! (Peace!)