Gods "chosen"

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I have never done a study on this so I'm not saying I am right and I am not saying I have all the scripture, so please add any I have left out that says "God chose us". But from what I have found I see two verses saying God chose us, but they do not say why.

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.


Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

So some people believe God chose everyone who is his elect and have no idea why because scripture does not say why that I can see. So some people simply choose to believe they won Gods lottery and happened to be a number he picked. I find this funny because there is no question that God's love is far beyond amazing, so I think that right there rules out God had a lottery before he created us. Scripture tells us that God knows all, he can look at any circumstance and know every single possible outcome that could happen with that circumstance. I'm guessing there is a countless number of different choices I could have decided to do today and not only does he know what I would choose to do, but he knows the outcome of everything that would have happened out of the countless number of choices of whatever one I could have chosen. So what is to say that by choosing us he didn't simply know who would follow him and who would not when he put our names in the book of life? Saying he chose us does not mean he forced a few of us to love him and the rest he chose that they would hate him so they could burn in hell, I refuse to believe that. Another thing is it could mean he chose us as human beings, he created us but he could have made us like the animals, born of flesh and no option to be born again. He could have chosen to create anything to be able to be born again, but he created us and chose us to be able to be born again.

One more question. Why is there soooo much scripture warning us of the dangers of hell if we do not follow Jesus? If he chose us and hand picked us then there is no fear of going to hell, he chose us. Why does Jesus warn "many will say Lord, Lord, but few will enter the kingdom of heaven"? Why does Jesus want us to run around spreading his word if he already hand picked us? Why does Jesus tell us all the parables if we have been hand picked?

Best way to study I find is narrow down the possibilities but seeing what others say then doing the study.

I just do not believe that God robotically programed us to obey him and follow him. I don't believe he he created man kind to pick a few for salvation and programed the rest to not accept him so they would only be born of flesh and not spirit so they would burn in hell. I don't believe we are randomly chosen. I find it hard to believe people actually think so highly of themselves that they believe God hand picked them and he leaves the rest to burn like a pile of trash, but some people do believe it. I believe Gods love is beyond amazing, I believe he wants no one to perish, I believe he wants everyone to come to him and love him back, but he knows who will and who will not. He gives everyone the chance to know him and follow him so that we are not robotic. He chose us as man kind to be able to be born again, to have the choice to follow him and love him unlike any other creation he made. He created his scripture to teach us and warn us what will happen if we love the world rather than him. I could go on and on but that is the basics.
 
Last edited:

phoenixdem

Newbie
Nov 28, 2010
1,158
34
South Dakota
✟9,080.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You say that you found only two verses? How many do you need?

Try a good concordance and look up Predestinate, Chose, chooseth, and probably others you can come up with. Do your study with the intention of learning the truth and not proving your point and see what you come up with. The Book of Romans is a good Book to start with.
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
You say that you found only two verses? How many do you need?

Try a good concordance and look up Predestinate, Chose, chooseth, and probably others you can come up with. Do your study with the intention of learning the truth and not proving your point and see what you come up with. The Book of Romans is a good Book to start with.

Thanks Phoenixdem, I will try that and see if I can find more scripture on it. I would like all I can find, I don't believe it goes into much more detail then what I found already or I'm sure I would remember it saying why God chose us, but I can't say for sure. 100% I will be doing the study to learn and not prove a point... I want to know the truth. I will start on Romans, thanks for the tips!
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Partly I would like to find more because the two I have:
John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

These two scripture, to me, do not say "the elect" because in both it says "should" To me the verses are speaking of people in general... we all "should" follow God so to speak. If it was speaking only to God choosing the elect I would think it would say something to the point of "you will" not "you should" We know Gods elect bear fruit and we know the fruit remains, as Gods elect we always have the Holy Spirit and we are always growing, not moving backwards. So I see it as speaking to mankind, mankind has been chosen by God, not animals or so on. But, like I say I need to study to know for sure.
 
Upvote 0

phoenixdem

Newbie
Nov 28, 2010
1,158
34
South Dakota
✟9,080.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Thanks Phoenixdem, I will try that and see if I can find more scripture on it. I would like all I can find, I don't believe it goes into much more detail then what I found already or I'm sure I would remember it saying why God chose us, but I can't say for sure. 100% I will be doing the study to learn and not prove a point... I want to know the truth. I will start on Romans, thanks for the tips!

God chose Us because He knew we wouldn't choose Him is what I suspect, but He does not tell us why. Just be happy He did and ask Him when you get to the Kingdom.

I have a concordance loaded in my computer. I will send you some things tomorrow.
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
God chose Us because He knew we wouldn't choose Him is what I suspect, but He does not tell us why. Just be happy He did and ask Him when you get to the Kingdom.

I have a concordance loaded in my computer. I will send you some things tomorrow.

That would be great, thank you!

Trust me, I am far beyond happy I will be able to ask him in the Kingdom. I just want to know if it means he "chose us" meaning as mankind being able to follow him or as his elect, knowing who would follow him. Not a big deal really. But I also want people to know the garbage that people teach saying "God chose me but he might not have chosen you, try to follow him if you like but if you were not chosen your beat" That brings a lot of inspiration to seekers. I even know of "elect" who are stressed out because people teach that garbage. Every time they trip in sin they stress out that they are not saved... nothing but a lie straight from Satan.
 
Upvote 0

DeaconDean

γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον
Jul 19, 2005
22,183
2,677
61
Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
✟100,334.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
That would be great, thank you!

Trust me, I am far beyond happy I will be able to ask him in the Kingdom. I just want to know if it means he "chose us" meaning as mankind being able to follow him or as his elect, knowing who would follow him. Not a big deal really. But I also want people to know the garbage that people teach saying "God chose me but he might not have chosen you, try to follow him if you like but if you were not chosen your beat" That brings a lot of inspiration to seekers. I even know of "elect" who are stressed out because people teach that garbage. Every time they trip in sin they stress out that they are not saved... nothing but a lie straight from Satan.

Where have you seen this taught?
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here are two works by historic Baptist men on "election":

Founders Ministries | Boyce's Abstract of Systematic Theology--Chapter 29

Founders Ministries | DAGG BK. 7 CHAPTER IV

Hope they are helpful.

Remember, the doctrine of "election"/"chosen" goes all the way back to the Old Testament. (cf. Deut. 7:5-7 KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

Thanks Dean, I will look them over. I took a fast look at Deut 7:1-12. I could be wrong, I don't know the OT very well but it sounds like it is speaking of Israel rather than everyone? I will have to read more on Deuteronomy.
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Where have you seen this taught?

Same place you were taught to go against the grain and see that Matthew 24 already happened... I opened my bible.

I don't know if it is possible to count how many types of churches there are now not to mention how many types of churches within the churches? They all teach a little different than each other so we can ether pick one and believe everything that is shoved down our throats or we can actually open the bible ourselves and actually believe the Holy Spirit can actually guide us... strange as it may seem to some people I believe he can guide me much better than a regular sinful man can. Church is wonderful for fellowship, but it is not Jesus standing up there telling us what this means and what that means, it is a sinful man. In the last two churches I have gone to, both being Baptist, one teaches post-trib and believes there is still the gift of tongues and believes women should not be pastors, the other does not believe in the gift of tongues, believes in pre-trib and believes women can be pastors. They are both Baptist churches, less then 10 miles apart, but one of them is teaching false because they can not both be right. Sure those three things are somewhat unimportant, but what else is being taught that is false? As much as I would like to put my bible on the shelf to collect dust and have everything I know about scripture taught to me by sinful man, I would rather trust the Holy Spirit to guide me in scripture.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Same place you were taught to go against the grain and see that Matthew 24 already happened... I opened my bible.

I don't know if it is possible to count how many types of churches there are now not to mention how many types of churches within the churches? They all teach a little different than each other so we can ether pick one and believe everything that is shoved down our throats or we can actually open the bible ourselves and actually believe the Holy Spirit can actually guide us... strange as it may seem to some people I believe he can guide me much better than a regular sinful man can. Church is wonderful for fellowship, but it is not Jesus standing up there telling us what this means and what that means, it is a sinful man. In the last two churches I have gone to, both being Baptist, one teaches post-trib and believes there is still the gift of tongues and believes women should not be pastors, the other does not believe in the gift of tongues, believes in pre-trib and believes women can be pastors. They are both Baptist churches, less then 10 miles apart, but one of them is teaching false because they can not both be right. Sure those three things are somewhat unimportant, but what else is being taught that is false? As much as I would like to put my bible on the shelf to collect dust and have everything I know about scripture taught to me by sinful man, I would rather trust the Holy Spirit to guide me in scripture.

If a church teaches in a way that they think they know who the elect are, they should be avoided.
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There is just something about the bible having tons of scripture to teach everyone with ears and everyone with eyes to follow it and come to Jesus, so much scripture saying God loves everyone and wants no one to perish... but yet there is nothing in the bible that explaines why God "chose us" or exactly what it is really speaking of by "choosing us"... so we assume God created man and picked a few to force them to follow him and picked the rest to force them not to follow him so they could be 100% assured to burn in hell? That is what some make up in their minds when they read scripture? sick and twisted. God loves everyone and wants no one to perish. He chose everyone and offered everyone a choice.
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
If a church teaches in a way that they think they know who the elect are, they should be avoided.

I agree, but so many churches teach different things, I would never know what is right and what is wrong if I don't study the bible for myself.

Its not a matter of knowing who is elect, it is so many believe God chose elect for no particular reason and cursed the rest for no particular reason. it's sick
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It says no where that I can see where God only chose a select few, I believe he chose everyone, if he did not chose all human creation then why did he lie and say he wishes no one to perish? God doesn't lie. Only possible other thing it means is he chose who he knew would follow him and put their names in the book of life... not because he picked numbers but because he knew and knows the future
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
There is just something about the bible having tons of scripture to teach everyone with ears and everyone with eyes to follow it and come to Jesus, so much scripture saying God loves everyone and wants no one to perish... but yet there is nothing in the bible that explaines why God "chose us" or exactly what it is really speaking of by "choosing us"... so we assume God created man and picked a few to force them to follow him and picked the rest to force them not to follow him so they could be 100% assured to burn in hell? That is what some make up in their minds when they read scripture? sick and twisted. God loves everyone and wants no one to perish. He chose everyone and offered everyone a choice.

Who teaches that God forces people to love Him?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
It says no where that I can see where God only chose a select few, I believe he chose everyone, if he did not chose all human creation then why did he lie and say he wishes no one to perish? God doesn't lie. Only possible other thing it means is he chose who he knew would follow him and put their names in the book of life... not because he picked numbers but because he knew and knows the future

Is this what you have in mind?

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30 NASB)
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Many people I have heard say "God chooses us, we do not chose him" ...making it to me an understanding that There is nothing we can do to chose God, if God did not chose us we will always fall short no matter how hard we try to love and follow him because he did not chose us, he does not want us. Us being who ever he did not chose.
 
Upvote 0

Hammster

Psalm 144:1
Christian Forums Staff
Site Advisor
Supporter
Apr 5, 2007
140,012
25,180
55
New Jerusalem
Visit site
✟1,718,892.00
Country
United States
Faith
Reformed
Marital Status
Married
Many people I have heard say "God chooses us, we do not chose him" ...making it to me an understanding that There is nothing we can do to chose God, if God did not chose us we will always fall short no matter how hard we try to love and follow him because he did not chose us, he does not want us. Us being who ever he did not chose.

Who is this in response to?
 
Upvote 0

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is this what you have in mind?

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified. (Romans 8:28-30 NASB)


To me this is basically saying God chose those who he knew would answer his calling, who he knew would follow Jesus. I don't see it saying he chose a few to follow Jesus and forced the rest not to follow Jesus
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BeeWrangler

wishing I was fishing
Feb 13, 2011
1,294
868
The boonies
✟5,307.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Who is this in response to?

Anyone who says it, I have seen many people say that on here, other forums and outside of the internet. I'm not going to pick names, but when someone says God chooses who he wants and does not want it can have very harmful effects on some people. Not me, I could care less what man teaches to me because I take it all with a grain of salt and follow what I see in Gods word... but I know others who are or have been stressed the heck out to the point of no return because of this garbage, thinking they might not have been "chosen"
 
Upvote 0