Acts 4:26-28

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

'T he kings of the earth took their stand , A nd the rulers were gathered together A gainst the L ord and against H is C hrist .' For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. (Acts 4:26-28 NASB)

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

Shulamite · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
'T he kings of the earth took their stand , A nd the rulers were gathered together A gainst the L ord and against H is C hrist .' For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. (Acts 4:26-28 NASB)

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

Amen. His works (decisions/plans) were finished before the creation of the world. Hebrews 4:3

He finishes what He started and planned from eternity past... Philippians 1:6

Everything that happened to Jesus was the Father's good pleasure and will. Isaiah 53:10

God "reacts" to nothing..... including man's supposed free will.

JackSparrow · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
...

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

And what if he did "violate" some men's free will ? Least they had free will to violate. No one has ever claimed God is not omnipotent. So your luck idea is out.

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

JackSparrow said:
And what if he did "violate" some men's free will ? Least they had free will to violate. No one has ever claimed God is not omnipotent. So your luck idea is out.

That claim is made all of the time. Puppets, robots, etc.

rogueapologist · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
'T he kings of the earth took their stand , A nd the rulers were gathered together A gainst the L ord and against H is C hrist .' For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. (Acts 4:26-28 NASB)

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

Neither. This is a case of the writer imputing meaning into the meaninglessness of human violence. It's a case of showing that God can bring about good even from the evil of human's designs.

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

rogueapologist said:
Neither. This is a case of the writer imputing meaning into the meaninglessness of human violence. It's a case of showing that God can bring about good even from the evil of human's designs.

I'm sure that's exactly what the original readers/hearers cam away with. Thanks for the brilliant insight.

rogueapologist · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
I'm sure that's exactly what the original readers/hearers cam away with. Thanks for the brilliant insight.

You are welcome. I am always glad to bring light into the midst of the darkness of minds clouded by Reformed theology and bad hermeneutics.

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

rogueapologist said:
You are welcome. I am always glad to bring light into the midst of the darkness of minds clouded by Reformed theology and bad hermeneutics.

And it is greatly appreciated.

Shulamite · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
And it is greatly appreciated.

Well, Hamm, I guess that includes me too. My mind has been darkened by Reformed things that are taught by the Spirit... may as well concede now, huh?

(all in good humor....rogueapologist! )

Honestly, if a Calvinist accused an Arminian of having his mind darkened, it wouldn't be too-well-received.

rogueapologist · Mar 1, 2013

Shulamite said:
Honestly, if a Calvinist accused an Arminian of having his mind darkened, it wouldn't be too-well-received.

I can't speak for Arminians, but it would certainly be shocking if that happened (by shocking, of course, I mean business as usual).

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

Shulamite said:
Well, Hamm, I guess that includes me too. My mind has been darkened by Reformed things that are taught by the Spirit... may as well concede now, huh?

(all in good humor....rogueapologist! )

Honestly, if a Calvinist accused an Arminian of having his mind darkened, it wouldn't be too-well-received.

Some people have no valid arguments. But they are good at offering up insults. When you try to engage them, the either ignore you or act as if the question is beneath them. I've learned who they are, so for the most part I patronize them and move on.

Shulamite · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
Some people have no valid arguments. But they are good at offering up insults. When you try to engage them, the either ignore you or act as if the question is beneath them. I've learned who they are, so for the most part I patronize them and move on.

I've noticed the same. ..... and may do the same.....

JackSparrow · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
That claim is made all of the time....

As with the 'luck' claim. Yet know one can find a theologian who has ever said this.

As for light and darkness

I1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

I love these verses.

pshun2404 · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
'T he kings of the earth took their stand , A nd the rulers were gathered together A gainst the L ord and against H is C hrist .' For truly in this city there were gathered together against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur. (Acts 4:26-28 NASB)

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

Nope! Neither. He knew this would happen, exactly how and exactly when and all those who would orchestrated it in their free will...Christ was already plan A because He foreknew all mankind would sin as a result of their free will being corrupted by Satan's free will beguilement. and it does not bring His omnipotence into question because He had the power to allow this to unfold to His glory (despite the opinion of politically correct modern humans and the imaginations of their puny finite opinionated thought processes who in their vanity believe their judgment of the one who created them is just).

In His love

Paul

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

JackSparrow said:
As with the 'luck' claim. Yet know one can find a theologian who has ever said this.

As for light and darkness

I1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

I love these verses.

If you want to start a thread about light and darkness, go ahead. But this post is off topic.

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

pshun2404 said:
Nope! Neither. He knew this would happen, exactly how and exactly when and all those who would orchestrated it in their free will...Christ was already plan A because He foreknew all mankind would sin as a result of their free will being corrupted by Satan's free will beguilement. and it does not bring His omnipotence into question because He had the power to allow this to unfold to His glory (despite the opinion of politically correct modern humans and the imaginations of their puny finite opinionated thought processes who in their vanity believe their judgment of the one who created them is just).

In His love

Paul

If only that fit the passage, that would be a viable conclusion.

JackSparrow · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
'

Did God get lucky with the crucifixion, or did He "violate" some men's free will in order for it to happen?

"get lucky" - No. Not seen this in the Bible or any theologian expound it.

Hammster · Mar 1, 2013

JackSparrow said:
"get lucky" - No. Not seen this in the Bible or any theologian expound it.

So how did He accomplish what he wanted and avoid making men into robots or puppets?

JackSparrow · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
So how did He accomplish what he wanted and avoid making men into robots or puppets?

You tell us.

rogueapologist · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
I'm sure that's exactly what the original readers/hearers cam away with. Thanks for the brilliant insight.

Why couldn't it have been? You weren't there, and you certainly don't have the worldview of a first century person. I see no reason why my interpretation is invalid or of less value than yours.

Acts 4:26-28

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