No such thing as free will.

Keachian · Feb 28, 2013

JackSparrow said:
I think you are being disingenuous,

I'd actually agree with Hammster and cygnus, follow their back and forth to elman's post they're talking about.

I'd hope that this isn't a Calvinism v Arminianism issue, but rather an Elman is wrong issue.

Hammster · Feb 28, 2013

JackSparrow said:
I think you are being disingenuous,

No. I've dealt with some who disregard sections of scripture because it doesn't fit their image of God.

Shulamite · Feb 28, 2013

elman said:
Yes. God did not kill anyone and does not need to kill anyone. He also does not ask human being to kill other human beings. He did not command Joshua to kill all the women and children of Jericho. You say that we cannot defend God as good if we do not have a inerrant Bible. For the first four hundred years following the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, Christians had no New Testament at all, and certainly they did not have an inerrant one. Were they able to defend God as good? For fifteen hundred years or more the vast majority of Christians did not have access to a Bible and could not have read it if they had. Were they able to defend the goodness of God? I think so. The Bible itself does not claim inerrantcy and does not claim to be the Word of God. In fact in John 1 the Bible says the Word of God is Jesus. One people who wrote the New Testament said he and all the others made many mistakes in their theology.. James 3:2. What does that say about what they wrote being inerrant?

Elman, in all respect, it concerns me that you assert that the bible is not the literal, God-breathed word of God Himself. There are no errors in God's Word..only men and women who make mistakes in understanding them!

"All scripture is God-breathed." 2 Timothy 3:16

We cannot select only certain passages and disregard others. Even as a Calvinist, I cannot honestly say that I have ever heard an Arminian brother or sister say that the bible is NOT the very word of God.

JackSparrow · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
No. I've dealt with some who disregard sections of scripture because it doesn't fit their image of God.

Me too.

Shulamite · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
No. I've dealt with some who disregard sections of scripture because it doesn't fit their image of God.

That's true. God had to take me from what I was taught by "man" and other doctrines of what others told me I should believe about Him, and then reveal Himself to me as He IS. When this happens, it will go against the grain of our flesh. The wisdom of God seems like foolishness to our fleshly minds. If we truly take Jesus at His word that He alone is our Teacher and His Spirit guides us into all truth, we'll never be the same.

Just as I am the only one who can give another person my heart and my true self, so it is with God. Only God can explain Himself to the human heart and mind.... and it will go against the natural mind's workings and logic!

FredVB · Mar 1, 2013

God is God. It makes sense to some of us to question whether God is right to have people killed, or that if he is good he would not do that, but not only does this sort of communication neglect what is really said in the Bible relevant to that, it defies having a true and logical perspective. We are told to fear the one who after he takes our life can cast our soul into hell. With a proper perspective one of us cannot judge ultimate reality for taking lives when it happens, and we can know that we never do understand everything.

elman · Mar 1, 2013

Shulamite said:
Elman, in all respect, it concerns me that you assert that the bible is not the literal, God-breathed word of God Himself. There are no errors in God's Word..only men and women who make mistakes in understanding them!

"All scripture is God-breathed." 2 Timothy 3:16

We cannot select only certain passages and disregard others. Even as a Calvinist, I cannot honestly say that I have ever heard an Arminian brother or sister say that the bible is NOT the very word of God.

I understand your concern. However the reality is you do not accept parts of the bible as from God. Not only can you select only certain passages and disregard others, but you actually do that all the time. Your denial of this is simply your self delusion covering up reality. When you quote 2 Timothy above you do not quote the passages that say God writes on our hearts. If God writes on our hearts is that scripture? Your belief that the bible is without error and directly from God is a belief that is not justified by history or logic or reason. How does the bible define "all scripture"? Is all scripture the King James Bible we now have or is it one of the versions that came into existence as the Bible was being assembled by men over perhaps a thousand years? Does all scripture include the book of Enoch?

elman · Mar 1, 2013

Hammster said:
No. I've dealt with some who disregard sections of scripture because it doesn't fit their image of God.

or it does not fit with what Jesus said about God.

Keachian · Mar 1, 2013

elman said:
or it does not fit with what Jesus said about God.

I think you've also applied the filter to what Jesus said as well.

elman · Mar 1, 2013

Shulamite said:
That's true. God had to take me from what I was taught by "man" and other doctrines of what others told me I should believe about Him, and then reveal Himself to me as He IS. When this happens, it will go against the grain of our flesh. The wisdom of God seems like foolishness to our fleshly minds. If we truly take Jesus at His word that He alone is our Teacher and His Spirit guides us into all truth, we'll never be the same.

Just as I am the only one who can give another person my heart and my true self, so it is with God. Only God can explain Himself to the human heart and mind.... and it will go against the natural mind's workings and logic!

If it goes against what God has written on your heart, if it shows you God is not loving and kind and gentle and merciful and truthful, it is not the Holy Spirit that is guiding you, because that is what and who God is. Jesus said God is good. I believe that and anything to the contrary is not coming from God or the Holy Spirit.

elman · Mar 1, 2013

progmonk said:
I think you've also applied the filter to what Jesus said as well.

What filter can be applied to God is good or God is love? Is that reality or is there exceptions --cases where God is not good or not loving or not truthful?

Keachian · Mar 1, 2013

elman said:
If it goes against what God has written on your heart, if it shows you God is not loving and kind and gentle and merciful and truthful, it is not the Holy Spirit that is guiding you, because that is what and who God is. Jesus said God is good. I believe that and anything to the contrary is not coming from God or the Holy Spirit.

See I would put it the other way around, if what the Holy Spirit is impressing upon us conflicts with what Scripture says, we're not being lead by the Spirit.

elman · Mar 1, 2013

progmonk said:
See I would put it the other way around, if what the Holy Spirit is impressing upon us conflicts with what Scripture says, we're not being lead by the Spirit.

See that is the issue--is the inerrantcy of a man made book and the belief that it came from and was dictated by the Creator of all that exists going to be the ultimate test of what I am being told about that Creator or is it so important that God be good and loving and truthful that I am willing to reject any source telling me different, including that man made book so many want to worship in place of the only one that is truly perfect and without error, God Himself.

Keachian · Mar 1, 2013

elman said:
What filter can be applied to God is good or God is love? Is that reality or is there exceptions --cases where God is not good or not loving or not truthful?

Beware the one who can destroy both body and soul.

elman · Mar 1, 2013

progmonk said:
Beware the one who can destroy both body and soul.

Are you talking to me? I can commit suicide physically and I can destroy my own soul with my own sin. I do not have to beware of God. God loves me and I can trust Him.

Keachian · Mar 1, 2013

elman said:
See that is the issue--is the inerrantcy of a man made book and the belief that it came from and was dictated by the Creator of all that exists going to be the ultimate test of what I am being told about that Creator or is it so important that God be good and loving and truthful that I am willing to reject any source telling me different, including that man made book so many want to worship in place of the only one that is truly perfect and without error, God Himself.

There's another problem you hold God to your standards instead of letting him set his own.

It is perfectly loving for God to have his Will override ours, it is perfectly good for God to have crushed Christ, God is not in error.

No such thing as free will.

On Sabbatical

Psalm 144:1

My Bridegroom suffered this for ME

Well-Known Member

My Bridegroom suffered this for ME

Regular Member

elman

elman

On Sabbatical

elman

elman

On Sabbatical

elman

On Sabbatical

elman

On Sabbatical

Similar threads