Jesus was not an Arminian
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Shulamite
My Bridegroom suffered this for ME
Okay, this may not be the correct answer, but I'll try: Contronyms?
Everytime the Lord peels away another layer of this mystery of being in Him the way Eve was in Adam, it's overwhelming and yet so beautiful. When He loves us, He is truly loving Himself. To put His Spirit IN us, is to put His Spirit in Himself... wow. (not that we are Him, the head, but that as the body, we inherit all of His Spirit as He does, since we complete Him as His body.)
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Amen, a Calvinist himself finds inconsistencies in his beliefs, but don't let a non-Calvinist dare to find them.
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crimsonleaf
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You are being asked by a non-Calvinist to show him inconsistencies in order for him to grow in understanding. He deserves better than a cryptic answer.
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Shulamite
My Bridegroom suffered this for ME
I don't know that word Try 'cleave ' it means split in two and the opposite to join together
Makes perfect sense. This is how the Lord has revealed Himself to me as well. The two were ONE at the beginning, were "cleaved" and made into two, then "cleave" again and become one.
Incredible how the Lord made Himself His "helpmeet" so He would no longer be alone by taking us from Himself. How else could He be understood unless His own bride was taken from Himself? No one outside myself can totally understand or know me the way I know myself. You can be in a room filled with people externally, but be utterly alone. God had to take us from His own Spirit in order for us to "know" Him as Adam knew Eve. Heart of His very heart. Spirit of His very spirit.
I enjoy this kind of sharing about being His body and I hope more come to see this mystery. He whispered in my heart a long time ago, "Shula, just as it was not good for Adam to be alone, it was not good for Me to be alone. Adam is the physical example of Me. I had angels, galaxies, etc, and yet it was all outside of Me, I was surrounded by 'many things', but was alone."
whew, this could get deep
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Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
I will give you one example. Over the years I have discoured with Arminians that are pretty sharp and intelligent people. They caused me to see that for the Elect to be in union with Christ before the creation of the physical world implies that they were never condemned in Adam. But Paul CLEARLY said that the Elect were condemned in Adam. We could not have been in union with Christ at the same time. So I had to make some adjustments.
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cygnusx1
Jacob the twister.....
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This may be worth considering , our union in Christ existed even when we were in Adam ? Proof ?
We died with Christ , we , were crucified and raised in Christ , obviously this happened for most of us in a time before we came to full union , and furthermore the Apostle extends this union of the elect so that right now , we are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus , this is a fact . The union is spiritual and mystical that is why marriage was created , to be a type of mystery of Christ and the Church
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My vote is your understanding like everyone else is lacking and the Bible contradicts itself.Congrats. By your confusing the general, outward call of the Gospel to repent and believe with the inward, effectual call of God that results in regeneration, you have effectively pitted the Bible against itself. Observe:
1 Cor. 1:22-24 says that every one called is saved.
Matt. 22:14 says there are people called who aren't saved.
So either the Bible contradicts itself, or your understanding is lacking. My vote is on the latter.
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JackSparrow
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Good to hear this.
I thought things general went like this:
Supra view.
1. God decided who would be the elect and who would be the dammed.
2. God started things rolling predestining even the fall, and making all humanity totally depraved.
3. Hmmm. I kind of see your point.
But with the infra view.
1. God started things rolling.
2. Adam and Eve freely chose to sin.
3. God then decided who he would pass over and elect the rest
4. Ok I still see your point.
As you can see I am wooly on this.
How about If you do a time line.
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crimsonleaf
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That's going to be difficult when we agree that the past, present and future are all God's now.
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Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
The passage you cite proves just the opposite. It shows that our COVENANTAL union with Adam was severed.
Too often the Reformed create a language that no one understands to hide their inconsistencies. For example, your "spiritual" and "mystical" union theory makes no sense. There is no such thing as a spiritual union. And there is nothing "mystical" about it. What do you mean by the term "mystical?"
ALL unions between entities or individuals are COVENANTAL in nature. Unions are always based in COVENANTS.
We were first in union with Adam COVENANTALLY and were condemned by that COVENANT. We then entered into a COVENANTAL union with Christ. There is nothing spiritual or mystical about it. Calvinists need to discard the terms "spiritual" and "mystical" regarding the word union. They can't even define what a "mystical" union is.
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This thread had a small clean up. Please remember this site wide rule:
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I was never in union with Adam by contract. And I was never condemned by contract. The only sin that destroys my spiritual existence is my sin, not the sin of anyone else. Ezekiel 18
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