Abomination of Desolation - not antichrist

Bethwhite

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Why do people assume the AofD is the devil/antichrist/beast?

We were told exactly what it was and that the desolation would last until the time of the end.

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:

Daniel 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


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Bethwhite

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Right, the abomination that maketh desolate will be done by the arms that stand on teh part of the king of the north. But the king of the north will later exalt himself above all gods, but in his own estate he will do differently. This king is not from Isreal. In his own land he will honour others as gods.

It doesn't say that.

Do you see that the abomination of desolation occurred in the past because it says Israel's desolation (by the armies) lasts "even until the time of the end, for it is yet for a time appointed."?

1 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. 32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


Luke understood all of that!:

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.
22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.


Luke understood how long Israel would be desolated and so did Paul:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.




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Bethwhite

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I'd note something else too, that people need to think about as to what generation did Jesus Christ mean when He told them about the coming abomination prophesied by Daniel the prophet - let him that readeth understand.
Jesus was speaking to those not that hear Him then, but to a generation of readers. How easily could people read the Scriptures in long past days? This is like Habbakuk did in his day. He had been shown a vision, afterwards, he went to sit on the tower and warn the people about the coming Babylonians; but God had the prophet write it down - make it plain - at the end it shall speak.

Jesus didn't go into the details about the abomination that maketh desolate, as the words are in Daniel and people can read them. Today, lots of the world can easily read that prophecy.

About 40 years after Jesus spoke those words, (and these words below), THAT generation saw the abomination of desolation - the desolation of Israel until the time of the end, until Jesus comes.

Matt 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.



Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it,
42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes.
43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side,
44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.


Matt 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matt 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Jesus was referring to the desolation of Israel, the beginning of the tribulation which would last until the time of the end, until they see Jesus.
 
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Bethwhite

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Jesus told us exactly when the antichrist and false prophet rises in Matthew 24 - after the tribulation is cut short, after the 6th seal. The antichrist, therefore, is in no way, shape or form, the abomination of desolation.

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (6th seal - Rev 6)
 
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Bethwhite

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The desolation time that Jesus Christ foretold and linked it to the prophecy of Daniel only lasts a few years. The same people that are going to know to flee to the mountains from Judea are those of the generation of the church people that will be persecuted. Israel has not yet seen that particular time of abomination. Israel had to rebuild her city and such first from the days of rulers such as Vespasian and Hadrian. The final week of Daniel 9:27 has not yet come upon Israel.

Israel is in the process of being revived and restored. as Hosea 6 prophesied. She's not going to be destroyed and dispersed again. The Holocaust was the end of Israel's desolation. The last 3 1/2 years are all that remains of the final week of years and it's described fully in Revelation.


Deuteronomy 32:20-21
"And he said, I will hide my face from them...I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."
So the pattern is - God is angry with Israel, so He hides His face from her, and lets her enemy take her land.
What happens in the 6th seal?
People on the earth try to hide from His face.
This shows He is no longer hiding it from Israel. It is time for His mercy on her.

The wicked rider shows up as a voice in the time of the third seal, God takes him out of Jerusalem by the 6th seal.

Isaiah 31:8
"Then shall the Assyrian fall...but he shall flee..."
"As birds flyng, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem...he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it."
v6
v7
"For in that day..."

No, Jesus said in Matt 24 exactly when the antichrist and false prophet perform their false miracles (after the 6th seal). Daniel 11 says when as well (during the time of wrath). Revelation 9 says when too.

When does the ruler of the north stand up that will be around at the time of Daniel 11:31? This ruler stands up as the vile person of v21. This means that unless verses 14-20 come to pass first, we are not yet to the time of the abomination of desolation happening. Daniel 12 only allowed so many days after that till the end of chapter 11.

Daniel 11:21
"And in his estate shall stand up a vile person..."
v23
"And after the league made with him..."
v28
"Then...against the holy covenant...and return to his own land."
v31
"And arms shall stand on his part...they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."
v38
"But in his own estate shall he honour the God of forces, and
a god..."
v39
"...a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge..."


=======Daniel 11:31
"And arms shall stand on his part...take away the daily sacrifice..."

=========12:11
"And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away...there shall be...days.
1290 days at the most is all the world will see from this verse and on to the end of chapter 11. We will not have centuries after the abomination that maketh desolate happens; but only a few years.

The desolation of Israel has already taken place, over 1900 years ago. They are being revived and restored. God is protecting them. It's not going to happen again.
 
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Bethwhite

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bethwhite, you are a false prophet, the anger of AdonaiElohiym is kindled against you !!! you will not escape

How am I a false prophet?

Is it because I see in scripture that the church will be standing in heaven, before the Son of Man, prior to the time of wrath?

That's not being a "false prophet". That's believing in the Word of God.


Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
 
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mog144

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Why do people assume the AofD is the devil/antichrist/beast?
Because they don't know that it is the False Prophet who is the diverse daughter of the Mother of Harlots who is the Antichrist power, non other than satan, inc. To blame anyone other than satan is missing the point and the criminal gets away blameless.

Another reason is, this prophecy is fulfilled more than once, you are pointing to the past and others point to the future and we face it again in the last day when identities change as times have but the spiritual event is the same as a repeat of God's response for a violation in our generation.
 
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Bethwhite

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You want to use Daniel 11:31 as one of your back your version up verses, yet Daniel 12 reveals that from the point of Daniel 11:31's events will be only 1290 days, not around 2000 years.

There was 1290 days regarding the desolation of Israel when the Roman armies, as instruments of God's judgment against Israel, surrounded Jerusalem and destroyed them and the Temple, leaving not one stone upon another, desolating them until the time of the end, as Jesus forewarned them about. 66AD - 70AD

It happened already.

The 1335 days is what is left of that final week of years.

Daniel 9:26 shows a time was going to end before that time of desolation was over. This means verse 27 refers to days that will come after the years of Titus.

No idea what you're talking about.
 
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Bethwhite

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The time of the holocaust was not against the land of Israel. Germany did not make the land of Israel desolate. Daniel foretold about the days of Titus and the people that would come and destroy the city and the sanctuary =this was to last till the end of the war.
Daniel has also foretold of a final week. The same he begins to be told about at the start of the verse and he lasts to the end of the verse. This is a separate time of desolation determined upon the land of Israel's holy site.

What you're missing is the fact that Israel was desolated because of unbelief and sin. Israel has been desolated, as was foretold, until the time of the end when they will be revived (1947/1948) and restored, as was also foretold.

These last 2000 years since the AofD was the longest, most horrible time for Israel. God turned his back on them and they have been chased by the sword, culminating in one of the worst holocausts in human history.

Israel is in the process of being revived and restored. They will not be desolated again.
 
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Bethwhite

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Because they don't know that it is the False Prophet who is the diverse daughter of the Mother of Harlots who is the Antichrist power, non other than satan, inc. To blame anyone other than satan is missing the point and the criminal gets away blameless.

Another reason is, this prophecy is fulfilled more than once, you are pointing to the past and others point to the future and we face it again in the last day when identities change as times have but the spiritual event is the same as a repeat of God's response for a violation in our generation.


We could explore the idea of repetition but Jesus was clear in Matt 24 as to when the false prophet and false christ arise to perform their false miracles and it has nothing to do with the AofD.
 
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Interplanner

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re Mt 24 clear about false prophet
The material is not about 1 particular figure as though someone back in those days had a neat and tidy timetable chart but unable to produce it graphically on a papyrus. The passage is about the calamity in the mid 1st century and many characters make such claims, then there are 3 in about 68, and one of them wins the day (but loses the revolt against Rome).

re process of being renewed
Can you give an indicators of this? I know of nothing. Nothing at all like the day of Pentecost. The legal state today is a welcome relief from domination by Islam in the region, but this does not make it fulfilled prophecy. I don't know of any prophecy where there is a dichotomy between being in the land and the Spirit working through the people. Those prophecies are meant to be post-exilic as far as the land goes and we know when the Spirit came and burst into a mission to the distant shores.

--Inter
 
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Bethwhite

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re Mt 24 clear about false prophet
The material is not about 1 particular figure as though someone back in those days had a neat and tidy timetable chart but unable to produce it graphically on a papyrus. The passage is about the calamity in the mid 1st century and many characters make such claims, then there are 3 in about 68, and one of them wins the day (but loses the revolt against Rome).

re process of being renewed
Can you give an indicators of this? I know of nothing. Nothing at all like the day of Pentecost. The legal state today is a welcome relief from domination by Islam in the region, but this does not make it fulfilled prophecy. I don't know of any prophecy where there is a dichotomy between being in the land and the Spirit working through the people. Those prophecies are meant to be post-exilic as far as the land goes and we know when the Spirit came and burst into a mission to the distant shores.

--Inter

In the first century, Israel lost their land, their city and their Temple (relationship to God).

In the 20th century, Israel got back their land, their city, but they are yet to regain their Temple (relationship to God).

That's 20 centuries, 2000 years of time and since one day is as 1000 years to God:

Hosea 6:1 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. 2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the Lord: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth

There are many OT prophecies about Israel's revival and restoration. Revelation 7 and 12 show that Israel will be sealed, fed/protected during the final 42 months.

Just as Paul said in Romans 11, after the church is removed (when the fulness of the Gentiles is come in) Israel will be restored by Jesus.
 
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