Not the only Christians?

ActionJ said:

I guess that would depend on who died first -- Jesus or the thief? If Christ died before the thief then the New Covenant had taken the place of the Old. Nevertheless, Christ did say that the thief would be with Him in paradise on that very day.


I have to consider folks who accepted Christ and then died prior to baptism and the other things you mentioned. What about babies who die at birth or children who die prematurely? I can't help but believe that Christ's mercy extends to folks who may not have completed the works of the New Covenant.

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He is perfectly just. Babies have no sin and are safe.

True! I'm done there once and for all.

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Me too. All that ugliness brings out the ugly even in good people.

I'm a firm believer in full immersion baptism and believe that it should be performed as soon as possible after converting to Christ and His Gospel but I'm not too sure I'm ready to say that a person can't find salvation if he or she died before being baptized. I believe that baptism of the Spirit supersedes water baptism. I used to be more hardline than I am now.

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I believe the Lord is just and will judge not only our action but our intent as well. He knows they are hundreds of reasons why a person who is intent on being baptized could be prevented from doing so.

If you think the Spirit is given prior to baptism then you don't believe Peter. I understand the story of Cornelius but I think that when we consider his story we need to factor in many things.

He was the first gentile conversion and the Jews HAD to be supernaturally convinced the Lord accepted them. What Peter said in Acts 2:38 is the ordinary way people receive the Spirit, Cornelius received the Spirit differently to convince Peter. It's not hard to imagine he wouldn't have baptized them without getting a sign from the Lord.

It's entirely possible they spoke in tongues without being baptized in the Spirit, the donkey did.

Gozreht said:

What is CARM? WHere is it? I don't want to get involved I just have no idea what it is.

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Carm is the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry run by Matt Slick. He has a call in radio show that is also a podcast. I think he comes across as having a rough personality and I think that lends itself to the sites forums. There is an active Church of Christ discussion board there, but it generally consists of the same people making the same snide comments to each other in thread after thread.

Steve.Page said:

If you think the Spirit is given prior to baptism then you don't believe Peter. I understand the story of Cornelius but I think that when we consider his story we need to factor in many things.

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I believe the Holy Spirit awakens a person to a desire to follow Christ and to proceed with physical, water baptism. I was personally awakened to Christ prior to my baptism which occurred three years later. When I was in the throes of alcoholism, I prayed to God for help and guidance. I believe the Holy Spirit led me to a place where I received the help I needed and requested.

Yes ... I believe the words of the Apostle Peter. He urged folks to be baptized so that they may receive the "gift" of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

In this verse, is the Holy Ghost the "gift" or is the gift our personal, spiritual gift that is awakened in us when we become part of the body of Christ? I believe the gift is "of" the Holy Spirit or given to us by Him.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11, "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

I believe the Holy Spirit visits us prior to water baptism but that our spiritual gifts are awakened as a result of our baptism.

heapshake said:

Carm is the Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry run by Matt Slick. He has a call in radio show that is also a podcast. I think he comes across as having a rough personality and I think that lends itself to the sites forums. There is an active Church of Christ discussion board there, but it generally consists of the same people making the same snide comments to each other in thread after thread.

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Thanks. I looked it up about three days ago. Didn't look interested in it. For some reason the website did not look pleasing to the eye. I have noticed though there are always some who show up to those places just to raise cain. I belong to another forum called christianchurchtoday (dot com). It is C of C/ Christian Church based. Not many people have posted there lately. Same reason why CARM is not liked. It is better than CARM and in many ways better than here.

ProfessorJ said:

"we are only Christians, but we are NOT the only Christians."

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Hi5 to that! We need unity of the brethren. We need to come together.

Let's find common ground, "Jesus Christ came and died for our sins. And, he rose from the dead."

It's so sad to see the body of Christ divided over doubtful disputations.

RefrusRevlis said:

I was thinking about the statement: "There is a very small percentage of RM believers who believe that only RM believers are true Christians, but this is not a popular view." and wondered to what extent this represents the belief of the users.

Refrus

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1 Cor. 1:13 "Is Christ divided...?"

Rom. 1:18 Re: suppression of truth

Jn 14:23 "...if anyone loves Me, he will keep My words..."

2 Jn 9 "Whoever transgresses and doesn't abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son."

Jn 8:31 "...if u abide in My word, u r My disciples indeed."

Rev. 22:18-19 Re: adding to or taking away from the Scriptures.; Deut. 12:32; 3:2

So wait.
Because when I got baptized the pastor didn't believe baptism saves you. I am not saved?
give me a break people, this is starting to sound like LAW
'follow these specific rituals and you go to heaven'.
But because my pastor didn't believe you are saved by baptism I'm going to hell?
-_- < see this? this is my face now.

Follower3 said:

So wait.
Because when I got baptized the pastor didn't believe baptism saves you. I am not saved?
give me a break people, this is starting to sound like LAW
'follow these specific rituals and you go to heaven'.
But because my pastor didn't believe you are saved by baptism I'm going to hell?
-_- < see this? this is my face now.

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Your "Pastor" is not our High Priest, King of kings, Lord of lords, and Savior. If u can't find it in the Bible, it really doesn't matter what ur pastor says.....

All it matters is what Jesus said....

ActionJ said:

I believe the Holy Spirit awakens a person to a desire to follow Christ and to proceed with physical, water baptism. I was personally awakened to Christ prior to my baptism which occurred three years later. When I was in the throes of alcoholism, I prayed to God for help and guidance. I believe the Holy Spirit led me to a place where I received the help I needed and requested.

Yes ... I believe the words of the Apostle Peter. He urged folks to be baptized so that they may receive the "gift" of the Holy Spirit:

Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

In this verse, is the Holy Ghost the "gift" or is the gift our personal, spiritual gift that is awakened in us when we become part of the body of Christ? I believe the gift is "of" the Holy Spirit or given to us by Him.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11, "Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will."

I believe the Holy Spirit visits us prior to water baptism but that our spiritual gifts are awakened as a result of our baptism.

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Peter said "“Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." The Holy Spirit is the gift.

Acts 1:4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” We know what happened after Jesus said this, the Apostles and others were given the gift of the Holy Spirit. They were baptized with the Spirit. The gift Peter spoke of in Acts 2:38 is the Baptism of the Spirit.

Peter said, REPENT and be baptized, for the forgiveness of sin. How many have truly repented. How many of us just said I'm sorry, forgive me, and thought that was repenting. How many of us do that over and over again, and think we are repenting. I know that is the way I used to be. What is it to really repent? What was it Jesus used to say? Go, and sin no more

michaelG1949 said:

Peter said, REPENT and be baptized, for the forgiveness of sin. How many have truly repented. How many of us just said I'm sorry, forgive me, and thought that was repenting. How many of us do that over and over again, and think we are repenting. I know that is the way I used to be. What is it to really repent? What was it Jesus used to say? Go, and sin no more

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Acts 1:24 "...You, O Lord, who know the hearts of all...."