Gay marriage: MPs back legislation

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BBC News - Gay marriage: MPs back bill despite Conservative backbench opposition

MPs have approved same-sex marriage in England and Wales in a key Commons vote, despite the opposition of almost half the Conservative MPs.

The Commons voted in favour of the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill, by 400 to 175, a majority of 225, at the end of a full day's debate on the bill.

Prime Minister David Cameron has described the move as "an important step forward" that strengthens society.

Early voting lists show that 136 Conservatives opposed the bill.

Of the remaining Conservative MPs, 127 were in favour, 35 did not vote, and five registered an abstention by voting both in favour and against.

Junior justice minister Helen Grant said: "As Tories we do differ at times. We have squabbles - we're like any other family."

The huge Tory opposition to this legislation has split the party completely. Mr Cameron has had more support from his political opponents than his own party.
I imagine that Mr Cameron pushed through legislation because he has recognized the demise of the Republican Party in America and its unpopular policies and shrinking support base.

Please do not discuss homosexuality itself, but simply this legislation and its political effect.
 

Skaloop

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The fight isn't over yet, not by a long shot. They have to go through the House of Lords next.

And yes, this is a rushed bill.

The fight may not be over, but the outcome is essentially assured.
 
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Skaloop

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Genersis said:
I doubt it had much to do with the US.
I'm glad it passed, but it was, and still is, an incredibly odd move for the Tories, or at least their leadership, to support the bill...

Unless they're seeking re-election by an electorate that is increasingly liberal on social policies.
 
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Genersis

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Unless they're seeking re-election by an electorate that is increasingly liberal on social policies.
But most social liberals are already catered for. The niche of traditional value voters they had are now largely alienated. I don't see a positive outcome for the Tories. UKIP on the other hand will likely benefit much more.
I guess it could produce a party with Thatcherite economic policies with socially liberal values, but I don't think such political positions are common, nor do I see social liberals trusting the Tories any time soon, even if the change is for the long run.
 
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Skaloop

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But most social liberals are already catered for. The niche of traditional value voters they had are now largely alienated. I don't see a positive outcome for the Tories. UKIP on the other hand will likely benefit much more.
I guess it could produce a party with Thatcherite economic policies with socially liberal values, but I don't think such political positions are common, nor do I see social liberals trusting the Tories any time soon, even if the change is for the long run.

Except for the social liberals who are also fiscal conservatives and not on board with UKIP.
 
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Rion

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BBC News - Gay marriage: MPs back bill despite Conservative backbench opposition



The huge Tory opposition to this legislation has split the party completely. Mr Cameron has had more support from his political opponents than his own party.
I imagine that Mr Cameron pushed through legislation because he has recognized the demise of the Republican Party in America and its unpopular policies and shrinking support base.

Please do not discuss homosexuality itself, but simply this legislation and its political effect.

...meanwhile, the rest of us realize that the same thing was being said of the Democratic party circa 2004. It is very much the same situation, with a poor candidate who didn't differ much from the guy in charge, and who had the personality of cold oatmeal. Nevermind the fact that in 2010, when Obama was not on the ticket, the same party you claim to be dead/dying won quite handidly. Sorry, not trying to make this about my country, but when you say something which is... well, far removed from the actual reality, I have to speak up.

We now return you to your scheduled thread. :congratm:
 
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All Englands Skies

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I may be wrong, but the impression I get is this is something David Cameron genuinely believes in. Good for him. It's just a shame about the other things he is prepared to support.


Cameron does what ever to try and stay on top and fill his pockets with cash.

The guy who is making the people at the very bottom scapegoats and villianifying them, then talking of "morals and freedom".

The blokes a greedy farce.
 
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Psudopod

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Cameron does what ever to try and stay on top and fill his pockets with cash.

The guy who is making the people at the very bottom scapegoats and villianifying them, then talking of "morals and freedom".

The blokes a greedy farce.

I'm just struggling to see how he thinks this would line his pockets. He must have known it would split the Tory party, and thus damage his position as leader. Thus I can only see him supporting same sex marriage because he agrees with it.

You are completely correct that he is a greedy farce and his vilification of the most vulnerable in society while pandering to the rich and powerful is one of things I mean by "it's a shame about the other things he is prepared to support."
 
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All Englands Skies

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I'm just struggling to see how he thinks this would line his pockets. He must have known it would split the Tory party, and thus damage his position as leader. Thus I can only see him supporting same sex marriage because he agrees with it.

You are completely correct that he is a greedy farce and his vilification of the most vulnerable in society while pandering to the rich and powerful is one of things I mean by "it's a shame about the other things he is prepared to support."

Its a smoke screen tactic, everyone thinks about this Issue and forgets the fact he's going to financially chokehold those at the bottom.

Also he's thinking "long term", if he can appeal to the "younger crowd" as alot of the "traditionalists" are one foot in the grave.
 
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Psudopod

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Its a smoke screen tactic, everyone thinks about this Issue and forgets the fact he's going to financially chokehold those at the bottom.

Also he's thinking "long term", if he can appeal to the "younger crowd" as alot of the "traditionalists" are one foot in the grave.

Possibly. Fortunately it looks like he's shot himself in the foot.
 
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Oafman

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The government is a secular, not a religious institution
Which government?

Not the British government, which was appointed by the Queen, who was directly 'appointed by God'.

26 of our lawmakers are Bishops, appointed by the Church (the only other country which does this is Lesotho).

Almost of a theocracy in theory, although thankfully, not in practice (apart from those Bishops, whose days are numbered).
 
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jgarden

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Which government?

Not the British government, which was appointed by the Queen, who was directly 'appointed by God'.

26 of our lawmakers are Bishops, appointed by the Church (the only other country which does this is Lesotho).

Almost of a theocracy in theory, although thankfully, not in practice (apart from those Bishops, whose days are numbered).
The last time I checked, Britain has a parliamentary system where the members of the House are elected by the public, not appointed by the Monarchy.

The only appointed members are in the House of Lords, and they are appointed by the party that is currently in power.

For centuries, the power of the Monarchy has been gradually diminishing and for practical purposes reduced to largely ceremonial purposes - the prime minister, out of courtesy, may seek Queen's advice/consent but she does not determine government policy!

When a government becomes unpopular and is replaced, the Monarchy remains because it is widely recognized that the responsibility for public policies lies with the politicians - not the Queen.

The Monarchy may be "directly appointed by God" - but the nature of many of the escapades of those associated with the Royal Family could hardly be considered "divinely inspired" or anything that approaches "an act of God!"
 
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Genersis

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The rumour I read is that the EU will be legislating a similar law anyway so he jumped instead of being pushed to stop it being about marriage and EU membership, which would have caused even bigger problems to the party.

Odd. Doesn't sound like something the EU would do.
But yeah, that would of done more damage.
 
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