Living by Faith--Is it for today?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Luke1433

Newbie
Oct 6, 2012
676
65
✟16,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here's another article that I stumbled upon many years ago.

FORSAKING ALL TO FOLLOW JESUS

When Jesus walked by the shores of Galilee, he called some fishermen who had just caught the biggest haul of their lives: "Come follow me and I will make you fishers of men!" Immediately they forsook all and followed him! (Luke 5:2-11 ) They forsook the fish, the nets, their boat, their livelihood, their old life, and even their poor old father!

How could they do such a thing? How could they forsake their living, and their own family and friends, without even giving notice, to follow this strange Stranger and his motley crew? They did it because he offered them a better life, a better job, with a better Boss, for a better family, and with better rewards! Why "labour for the food that perishes" (John 6:27 ) when you can win immortal souls, who will be your friends forever!

Someone said, "First let me say farewell to my father." Jesus replied, "He that puts his hand to the plough and then looks back is not worthy of me!" (Luke 9:61-62 ) "But let me at least bury my father," said another. (The father probably wasn't even dead yet, and this might have taken months or years!) Jesus firmly said, "Let the dead bury the dead! You come and follow me!" (Luke 9:59-60 )

God refuses to take second place to anything or anyone. He will not let you put any other god before him - not your old job or your old boss or even your old family and friends! God is your Boss now and he has a new job for you that will not wait. This is God's first test for every would-be disciple. To see if you love him enough to put him first by forsaking all to follow him!

"Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these other things will be added unto you!" (Matthew 6:33 )

God will not tolerate you putting anything else before him and his work. If you can bring the boss and family with you, fine. But obviously the disciples' father was unwilling to leave his boat business and all those nice fish and follow Jesus with them--and we never hear of him again. The father who stuck by the business vanished into oblivion, while his sons wandered off with a perfect Stranger and made history, helping millions of souls for eternity.

Isn't it ridiculous now to compare the business, the father, and the family, which all soon perished, with the millions of immortal souls who have been saved through the decision of those fishermen to put God first that day, drop everything, and follow Jesus! Now that we can see the results, it's easy to know they made the right choice despite their father's objections and the wrecking of his business.

Nothing is more important than God and his work of love to save the world. God's only time is now! The guys who stalled never came back. And their list is longer than the list of followers. Many are called, but few have chosen to follow him above all. Who and what are you going to put first?

Why not ask the boss and family to come along? They could follow just as well, you know.

The Lord makes the entrance exams hard so we'll know right away if we've got what it takes.

It's kind of like being born: It's a crisis experience that the mother and baby go through. If they can make that they can usually make the rest pretty well. From then on you just go step by step and grade by grade and it becomes a little more spread out, like the growth of a baby.

Lukewarm believers make God sick to his stomach. (Revelation 3:16 ) He says the double-minded are "like the troubled sea when it cannot rest." (Isaiah 57:20 ) I cannot comprehend people's hesitation in serving the Lord all the way! If he's worth serving at all, he's worth serving full time and with all that you have!

How about you? Are you ready to give up everything, in absolute loyalty, and full-time service to Jesus?
 
Upvote 0

candle glow

whatever I want to be
Jan 2, 2012
2,035
181
Nairobi, Kenya
✟18,132.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Urban dictionary:
From the satirical Saturday Night Live sketch featuring Will Ferrell, now used as a way to tell someone when something they did was good, but just not quite right. The phrase "more cowbell" works to express this mild dissatisfaction in a variety of settings.


At a steakhouse, "how was your meal?" It was ok, but could have used just a little more cowbell.

"Eh, that ,movie wasn't bad. But really could have used some more cowbell."

Living by faith; needs more cowbell...
 
Upvote 0

candle glow

whatever I want to be
Jan 2, 2012
2,035
181
Nairobi, Kenya
✟18,132.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I was thinking about what krugar said, about how prosperity amongst Christians (i.e. lots of money) is good because it can then be used to help the poor.

I remember the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, where Abraham tells the rich man, "you've had your good things in life, while Lazarus had only bad things. Now the roles are reversed for eternity".

But, even with this lesson, Krugar could still argue that the rich man was wrong, not because he was rich, but because he used his riches selfishly.

And then I remembered an old Simpson's episode where Homer learns to use the internet and somehow manages to create a very popular website, which catches the attention of Bill gates, who then comes to Homers house.

Homer thinks Bill is there to buy his website, but then Bill says, "you think I got rich by cutting checks every time competition comes along" and proceeds to destroy all of Homer's computer stuff with a baseball bat.

The point is, you don't get rich by giving money (or resources) away. You get rich by taking money (or resources) from others. Even a worldly TV show recognizes that.

The US government does something similar to what Krugar is suggesting; they give HEAPS of foreign aid (in the billions) to 3rd and 2nd world countries every year, more than any Christian organization can.

But the US is only able to give so much because they've taken so much. All that money comes as a result of goods and resources being moved around, mostly from poorer countries to the richer countries, and then a small portion of the profits being funneled back to the poor countries in the form of "foreign aid" which makes the US look like the charitable good guys and buys a whole lot of friendship. What a scam.

Christians should definitely NOT follow such a worldly example. They should be following Jesus' example.
 
Upvote 0

Bramwell

Newbie
Oct 24, 2012
256
42
✟8,411.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
The arguments put forward by Luke and Candle Glow in favor of living by faith really resonate with me. I am trying hard to understand where Kruger (who differs quite drastically in his reasoning from the former) is coming from in his reasoning. I must admit I am at a bit of a lost.

I think this is one reason why, for Christians, some recognition of authority can be useful in trying to understand and accept the truth. By that, I mean Kruger is putting forward a lot of arguments which he probably believes are logical and rational to support his understanding of how to solve the problems of the world. Without trying to point out rational flaws in his logic (which others have already done), I would prefer to focus on whether or not any of Kruger's solutions are supported by the Bible?

And that brings me back to the point of authority. And I'm not talking about human authority, as in obeying one's pastor because he (or she) is your pastor; rather, I'm talking about divine authority.

If we really believe Jesus is the Son of God, then obviously, we should place more faith in the solutions put forward by Him than we do in anyone or anything else... including our own minds.

The question is, where did Jesus encourage us to work for more money to help the poor? He didn't.

What did Jesus offer as the solution instead? For us to sell our possessions, and give the proceeds to the poor. Kruger seems to have a lot of problems accepting that solution; by fighting that solution, he is in fact fighting what Jesus taught – basically fighting God.

When we look in the Bible, we also see that the early church in the Book of Acts lived the same way – selling their material possessions, and sharing everything in common. This example is for our own benefit, to pattern our lives around as believers.

Maybe if we accepted the authority of the teachings of Jesus, we would be more inclined to find godly solutions to the problems of today's world? Maybe accepting the authority of His teachings would also help curb some of our own theories about how to “save the world”... theories which may have various strong-points, but also lack the infallible inspiration we find in the teachings of Jesus. (?)
 
Upvote 0

AllanV

Newbie
Feb 4, 2013
634
64
NZ
✟16,413.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hi Allen. Welcome to the thread, and thanks for this thought provoking question. Counting the cost is a huge part of Christianity. I can see someone like Krugar saying "see, Jesus is saying we need to count the cost, which means making lots of money. How can we count costs if we're not involved in making lots of money!" haha.

Thanks for the welcome. :wave:

I kind of know what Krugar is saying. But everything has become distorted to the point where money is the main motivator. Capitalism stifles the correct path. Science is used to develop processes for quick profits with out long term responsibility. Cancer is an epidemic and the living and working environment has become a problem.
Most people are not earning enough to cover living costs. This is usual and recorded history including the Bible shows a certain mental attitude has always prevailed that tends to oppress and bring injustice through ideology.

But we read in scriptures that it is ending quickly and exposing all those who are workers of unrighteousness.
 
Upvote 0

Luke1433

Newbie
Oct 6, 2012
676
65
✟16,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Allan wrote: "Everything has become distorted to the point where money is the main motivator."

There is some truth in that, since Jesus described the world in his day as a "green tree" compared to what he described as a spiritually "dry tree" in our day. People certainly have become worse. But I think money has been the main motivator ever since it was invented (by the Babylonian Empire).

The thing for us as Christians (if we hope NOT to be part of that "dry tree") is whether we are going to go with the flow or whether we are going to stand up for the truth in what Jesus taught. He said that if we are ashamed of his teachings, he will be ashamed of us when he returns.

I don't think Jesus taught that we should just go along with the materialistic values of the world (albeit with some kind of a holy veneer over it all) until he returns either. As has already been said, the first disciples took Jesus literally; the Book of Acts church took him literally; and even to this day there are a few of us who are still trying to take him literally. We may be small, and thus open to ridicule, but really, where is there anything else that is solving the problem?

MOST stuff labelled as "foreign aid" is actually military aid; and even when Christians talk about doing something for the Third World, it rarely has to do with feeding them. Instead, it's all about "preaching the gospel" to save their souls, while taking little thought for what our greed has done to them physically.
 
Upvote 0

Bramwell

Newbie
Oct 24, 2012
256
42
✟8,411.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Good point, Luke. I know that in Africa in particular, a main motivation for so many government sponsored "charitable" activities is just to tap into the continent's resources, and improve infrastructure for the sponsor country. It's not really because they care about the people of Africa.

Jesus commanded us to do good, seeking no earthly reward. He said that if we did this, then God Himself would be the one to reward us.

In a world which has lost faith in God, doing good without expecting a reward is foolish. It's why so few today do good for pure motives, i.e. not because they want to be seen or praised by other people, nor to generate benefits for themselves and their loved ones.

Where are those who trust God enough to do good expecting nothing in return?
 
Upvote 0

krugerpark

Newbie
Oct 16, 2012
596
47
✟8,589.00
Faith
Christian
I just don't see how you people can expect to move missionaries and commodity to 3rd world countries in any kind of quantity without understanding the economy we have and how to change it

when Katrina and Rita hit Walmart was the biggest supplier of aid- they were the only one with the logistics to do it

they provided more aid than the federal government
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

motherprayer

Elisha
Jul 12, 2012
8,466
586
Visit site
✟19,375.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I just don't see how you people can expect to move missionaries and commodity to 3rd world countries in any kind of quantity without understanding the economy we have and how to change it

when Katrina and Rita hit Walmart was the biggest supplier of aid- they were the only one with the logistics to do it

they provided more aid than the federal government

Source?
 
Upvote 0

Luke1433

Newbie
Oct 6, 2012
676
65
✟16,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Governments and multi-national corporations "give of their abundance" as Jesus said of the rich Pharisees who threw so much into the Temple treasury. They can afford to do this, because they GOT their wealth by ripping off the poor (in profits) to begin with. They are definitely not Robin Hoods. They take from the poor and give tokens back to the poor.

Wheras Jesus commended the widow who threw two mites into the treasury, because it was all that she had.

It's not hard to get the Krugers of the world to say that money is not going to solve the spiritual problems of the poor, and yet they still push money as the solution. (Notice that Kruger keeps talking about shipping missionaries to the Third World... not wheat.) So if we can agree that it is ultimately spiritual growth that God is looking for, are we going to find this spiritual growth through using man's values and reasoning?

As I've said previously, I give to the poor not because it is going to solve their problems, but because it helps to solve mine. God wants me to forsake faith in money in favour of faith in him. And when I've learned that, then I can really be of some spiritual help to the people I have helped materially. But a fat cat with a cigar in his mouth telling the poor that they just need to ask Jesus into their hearts doesn't solve anyone's problems.
 
Upvote 0

motherprayer

Elisha
Jul 12, 2012
8,466
586
Visit site
✟19,375.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
yes I know. If walmart and corporations are so evil then where was the church

even if the church wanted to respond, would they be set up with the communications, trucks, equipment and a trained army of people ready to do it?

no, so look at walmart, they did better than 'Christians' by far

There were many Christians who helped after Katrina. Problem is, the media doesn't like giving credit to God for anything, so their efforts - hands on efforts, not just sending goods, but able bodies - weren't recognized so much.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

motherprayer

Elisha
Jul 12, 2012
8,466
586
Visit site
✟19,375.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
source?

not denying it, but nobody has logistics to move the way walmart does. (not even the army really)

God does. I don't have a source. I personally know people who were part of the effort to get people down there to minister to those who survived. It was pretty awesome actually, and I was surprised it got no media coverage.
 
Upvote 0

krugerpark

Newbie
Oct 16, 2012
596
47
✟8,589.00
Faith
Christian
It's awesome whenever anyone helps out from the church. But we should be able to agree that if walmart provided food for 100,000 people + jobs and everything else they needed, the church didn't do nearly enough, nor would the organizations in place be as capable as walmart in that situation were it to occur at another location and time.
 
Upvote 0

Luke1433

Newbie
Oct 6, 2012
676
65
✟16,164.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This is an interesting topic, because I believe that it helps us to delineate between Christianity and the values/weapons of the world. Sadly, Kruger expresses (albeit not as sleazily) what is the position of the vast majority in the churches. The churches in America are NOT, on the whole, interested in helping the poor, or in obeying any of the other teachings of Jesus either. The churches are a Wal-mart of a different colour... experts on constructing Temples, mostly. Not sure whether Wal-mart or the churches has the most wealth, though both of them make token donations to the poor from their incredible wealth (and get what media coverage they can for it).

Meanwhile, the kingdom of heaven (which may include individuals within the churches) continues to quietly grow like the mustard seed into the tree that God wants... doing things God's way. And one of the ways that God tells his people to do it is SECRETLY. I'm not saying that a lot was done by genuine Christians, simply because there are so few genuine Christians. But I am saying that what counts in God's eyes is the MOTIVES people have for doing things, and only those things done secretly count in the eternal scheme of things.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

candle glow

whatever I want to be
Jan 2, 2012
2,035
181
Nairobi, Kenya
✟18,132.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There were many Christians who helped after Katrina. Problem is, the media doesn't like giving credit to God for anything, so their efforts - hands on efforts, not just sending goods, but able bodies - weren't recognized so much.

Excellent observation, MP.

not denying it, but nobody has logistics to move the way walmart does.

Except, once again, that's not the way Jesus said to do it. No one is saying that the kind of resources which money can buy, or even money itself, should not be used to help others.

What some people are saying is that working for the purpose of getting more money defeats the purpose of helping those who don't have the money to buy the resources in the first place.

If them not having enough money to buy stuff is the problem, then we need to look at WHY they don't have the money, and whether or not money really is the best way to determine who gets what.

Jesus clearly felt that money was NOT a suitable answer to the worlds problems. He could have been born into the richest, most powerful Kingdom in the world, set up by God, and used his incredible wealth and political influence to create an awesome example of Heaven on Earth.

But he didn't do it that way. He was born in a stable, with animals. That's not just a Christmas story, you know. It actually means something. He certainly was not born into a wealthy family.

He spent his entire ministry traveling around from place to place, sometimes sleeping out under the stars (foxes have holes and birds have nests, but the son of man has nowhere to lay his head). That's not "living the high life", as you put it, Krugar.

Are we followers of Jesus, or followers of an economic system which makes sense to us because we can manipulate it when we choose and decide how to make it work best in the way we see fit?

Like luke said earlier, after teaching his disciples that they could not work for God and money at the same time without cheating on one or the other, the religious leaders derided him. They thought it was foolishness, because they knew that money makes the world go round. How stupid could Jesus really be, right?
 
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.