The Start of the Tribulation

Funny how the apostles never taught any of this. Boy, were they amateurs!

--Inter

The directives have been issued just months after Xi Jinping took over as the PLA commander-in-chief from Hu Jintao.

China tells army to prepare for war in 2013 - www.phayul.com

A1-Z26 Joel Three – Nine =140

Joel 3:9 Proclaim ye this among the gentiles; prepare war=121 wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: = 1122 `

Xi Jinping = 112 + Hu Jintao = 98 = 210

One hundred twelve + ninety eight = 331 <> 121 + 210 = 331

Revelation six - three = 229

Rev 6:3 and when He had opened the second seal=130, I heard the second beast = 140 say, come and see. = 598

Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin = 313 Three hundred thirteen = 229

The Revealer of Secrets= 229 The Deep and Secret things= 229

The LORD of The Harvest 229 2 exact phrases (Mat 9:38 - Luk 10:2)

The Revealer of Secrets 229 1 inexact match (Dan 2:47)

The Work of The LORD GOD 229 1 exact phrase (Jer 50:25 )

The LORD hath opened His armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of His indignation: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of Hosts =331 in the land of the Chaldeans.

Thy Will be done in earth 229 1 exact phrase (Mat 6:10)

The Deep and Secret things 229 1 exact phrase (Dan 2:22)

He shall be Saved out of It 229 1 exact phrase ( Jer 30:7)

Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it.

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

Thank you LvB for making this thread...

My portion is continued @ http://www.christianforums.com/t7710896/

Pg. 3 updates #30, #29, almost every post in the thread has been updated

Shalom

Ebed232

One hundred sixty three = 261 <> 163 is the first number spelled out that equals 261

The united states of america 261

The Heaven departed as a Scroll 261 exact phrase 1x Rev 6:14

20601 bohemian ave ( Address Bohemian Grove -Idea to make Atomic BOMB)

It was without number 261 The wise shall understand 261

Ye shall make you no idols 261

20191st vs. 1244th vs. Jeremiah 50:24

I Have Laid a snare for thee 206
and 19
thou art also taken 201 O babylon 86
and 19
thou wast not aware 224 thou art found 163
and 19
also caught because 163
thou hast striven 219
against the LORD 153 = 1472 <> 5315

The nobel peace prize for 224 barack hussein obama 163 Tishri twenty one 224

thou art found in Hebrew = &#1504;&#1502;&#1510;&#1488;&#1514; 581 five hundred eighty one = 224

multiplicative adverb = 224

http://www.christianforums.com/t7710896-4/

Superbowl XLVII = 207

POWER OUTAGE STOPS SUPER BOWL FOR 34 MINUTES

Thirty four minutes = 261 The United States of America = 261

barack hussein obama = 163 One hundred sixty three = 261

The Baltimore Ravens were leading the San Francisco 49ers 28-6 when most of the lights in the 73,000-seat building went out with 13:22 left in the third quarter Sunday night

officials revealed that an "abnormality" in the power system triggered an automatic shutdown

Yacob's Trouble 3/22/2013

Links are underlined

The 'tribulation' started in John's generation, as John wanted his generation to obey him. It's all there in Revelation 1.

Revelation 1 shows us that this book was written by John to HIS generation with a *generic* message about suffering that would apply to all generations.

1. THE LANGUAGE IS URGENT AND NEAR!

Revelation 1:1
"1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."

SOON!

Revelation 1:3
"3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

NEAR!

John expected the stuff in Revelation to begin during his lifetime! The persecution, the suffering, the tribulations, the safety of martyrs in heaven, the spiritual reign of Christ, it all started 2000 years ago.

2. JOHN SPECIFICALLY SAYS HE *ALREADY* SHARES IN THEIR *TRIBULATION*

Rev 1:9 "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (NASB)

John shares their tribulation which had *already* started! It started 2000 years ago, and continues to this day. We see it in history and around the world *any* time a 'beast' government starts to kill God's people.

The Roman persecution against Christians would have been especially troubling to Jewish Christians who expected the Messiah to save Israel from her enemies. What was the point of belonging to this 'new' Israel of the church if it didn't guarantee any national or personal security? How were Christians to understand the eventual fall of the temple? John answers these questions. Revelation is primarily a theological sermon that covered where the true temple now lives, true security exists, and how our true home is being prepared.

It was written TO them and was ABOUT their trials and temptations. But it also applies generally to all Christians in all ages as we all suffer for our Lord. Just as 1 Corinthians was written specifically to the Corinthian church but is also God's word to all generations, so Revelation was written to specific Christians but the themes and message are timeless. (Well, for all Christians living in these Last Days which started in Acts 2!)

3. IT'S A GOSPEL SERMON THAT APPLIES TO ALL AGES, EVEN IF WRITTEN IN APOCALYPTIC LANGUAGE!

Revelation 1:2
"who testifies to everything he saw&#8212;that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."
The testimony of Jesus Christ is another way of speaking of the basic gospel message of the Apostles.

We know it is apocalyptic (a genre of writing common to Jews between 200BC to 200AD) because of the biblical symbols used in the book. In Revelation 1 Jesus is introduced in a similar style to the Son of Man before the Ancient of Days in Daniel. But then there's a New Testament twist. John mixes and matches his imagery to suit the theology of his sermon. "...and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword." The Sword is the Sword of the Spirit, the word of God. Jesus, the WORD, is about to speak to John!

John has specifically said this book is about the testimony of Jesus Christ and now adds a biblical symbol of the power of that testimony. The Sword of the Spirit is about to speak, so pay attention! Listen up! The Lord is speaking, and (as John has already said) it is a testimony about himself. That's the gospel. Hear and obey! "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."

Which is kind of hard to do if it is not even directed TO you or ABOUT you. But because this was the gospel being preached, it *IS* to us and about us, and all Christians until the Lord returns.

THE SCROLL IN REVELATION 5 IS ABOUT THE GOSPEL AS WELL!
John weeps that no one can open Daniel's scroll, as it contains the answer to the great mystery of how God was going to redeem his people. But Jesus can open it. Why? Because he "has overcome". And...

"&#8220; Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation."
10 &#8220;You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.&#8221;

Jesus is the POINT of the whole bible, the subject of the scroll, and the answer to Daniel's question. Jesus is the one who saves people from every nation and creates a brand new kingdom and priests. The GOSPEL is the mystery from ages past now revealed to the Apostles. The scroll of Revelation 5 is not another question to solve but an answer to Daniel's conundrum! It's the gospel.


4. THE GOSPEL ITSELF HAS US THINKING OF THE LORD'S RETURN IN SALVATION AND JUDGEMENT
Critics of Amillennialism often argue that because the last few chapters describe Judgement Day the whole book must be a timetable. The problem is, the description of Judgement Day itself isn't a timetable! Judgement Day is described and repeated 3 times in various chapters at the end of the book. Rather than seeing Revelation as our own personal crystal ball and trying to guess specifically who and what each symbol 'is', we are meant to remember the *theological* importance of each image. And, surprise surprise, here we see the Lord's return is integral to the gospel sermon John is preaching in the first place!

Rev 1:5
"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father&#8212;to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 &#8220;Look, he is coming with the clouds,&#8221;
and &#8220;every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him&#8221;;
and all peoples on earth &#8220;will mourn because of him.&#8221;
So shall it be! Amen."

In verse 5 Jesus freed us from our sins. But thoughts of Jesus suffering lead John straight to His glorious return.

He is coming back the way he went, on the clouds. This is the ancient symbol of the Cloud Rider; a victorious and mighty ruler like the Ancient of Days. The return of the Cloud Rider is the Return of the King. It means Judgement Day.

According to John, the moment we remember Jesus died for our blood should also be the moment we remember his comforting words that although he suffered (and us with him!), he WILL return. Like any good introduction, John is letting us know what this book will be all about. We see generic picture language that explains the gospel hope of Jesus return to suffering Christians. We will NOT give in to persecution and temptation. We will NOT betray God and live for worldly wealth, worldly philosophy, and worldly powers. Because, in the end, the Lord *will* Judges them all. This is our gospel hope. It's not some weak future timetable that robs the book of relevance and meaning to us.

5. THERE IS NO WAY TO INSERT 2000 YEARS AND REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE TEXT!
Revelation 4 is often quoted to support a big leap of time into the future.
"After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven... Immediately I was in the Spirit".
Let us note that it does NOT say "Insert 2000 years here please, and then we'll move on to our timeline of future history!" That will not do. It contradicts John's command for *his* readers to hear and understand and obey the *gospel* message he is preaching, and it robs the verses above of their true meaning.

But John *does* give us a timeframe for his book. It is going to cover the Last Days. In Rev 1 he has already said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord&#8217;s day" which means he is thinking of the Age of the Spirit which finds its fulfilment on the great and terrible day of the Lord. Here it is again in Rev 4. "Immediately I was in the Spirit". "After these things" is moving on from the specifics of the letters to the 7 churches to general truths across the whole Last Days. A careful study of Acts 2 and Joel will also back this up. We are in the Last Days, and have been for 2000 years. Most of the images in Revelation are theological statements about suffering in the Last Days, not 'events' that must be decoded.

6. THE FACT OF JUDGEMENT DAY IN THE LAST CHAPTERS *STILL* DOES NOT MAKE THIS A TIMETABLE!
Some argue that Judgement Day is an event, therefore the whole book is a series of events, not symbolic sermons. But there's a problem. Judgement Day is described about 3 times in vivid imagery from different angles. Revelation 17, 19, and 20 all describe different aspects of the same Judgement of our Lord! This makes it even *harder* to see Revelation as a future timeline when it seems to waltz around the same things again and again! No, it's symbolically describing important theological truths about Judgement Day. Not arbitrary timetables.

John started off telling us in Chapter 1 that he was writing about the gospel, and the gospel leads to Judgement. We should not be surprised that the book deals with the harsh realities of our lives now, but culminates in our glorious hope! How many stories have you heard describe heartache and pain that is ultimately resolved and rewarded? John is the ultimate storyteller, only the story he's telling is the gospel itself.

7. A FUTURE TIMETABLE MAKES IT COMPLETELY INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO JOHN'S GENERATION.

* Covenant Amils see it as an incredibly PRACTICAL book for all Christians in all ages. It encourages them to not give into suffering and refuse to follow the worldly short-term gains of materialism and worldly power and success and sensuality.
* Futurists make it irrelevant to all but the last generation.

* Covenant Amils see Revelation as clear symbolic sermons that interpret themselves according to other symbols in the bible, and are applicable to all Christians in all situations.
* Futurists see it as utterly dependent on today's headlines, and therefore inaccessible to everyone before this generation.

* Covenant Amils use a consistent symbolic hermeneutic.
* Futurists use an inconsistent 'literal' hermeneutic which contradicts itself so frequently the system implodes. Does Jesus have 7 horns and 7 eyes or not? Is the book literal or not? Nothing futurists have said addresses the fundamental point that their literal hermeneutic is inconsistently applied.

Ludwig van Beethoven said:

Eclipsenow, when, in your view of history and the future, does the return of Yeshua take place? It definitely hasn't occurred yet.

Click to expand...

I'm speaking of the Olivet prophecy, not Revelation. Olivet = AD70, Revelation = generic description of all of the Last Days which started at Pentecost (Acts2) and continues as long as the earth survives. Revelation was for John's generation to believe and obey, as the Roman persecution was about to start. There might be some historically specific things in there, but the main thrust of Revelation is that we are going to suffer persecution and temptation until the Lord returns. That's it! It's descriptive, not prescriptive, general, not specific, prophecy in terms of big-picture brush strokes describing general anti-God attitudes, not specific nations doing specific things. Any such reading basically turns Revelation into a silly game of Nostradamus! "What subjective thing can I make this book say now?"

And it renders Revelation utterly incomprehensible to the first century Christians. The way John wanted them to hear and obey it, I cannot believe for one moment that it's all about US 2000 years later! That's just our vanity at work there!

Ludwig van Beethoven said:

You are assuming that the book of Revelation was intended for John's generation, which is not true.

Click to expand...

Revelation 1 shows us that this book was written by John to HIS generation with a *generic* message about suffering that would apply to all generations.

1. THE LANGUAGE IS URGENT AND NEAR!

Revelation 1:1
"1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."

SOON!

Revelation 1:3
"3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near."

NEAR!

John expected the stuff in Revelation to begin during his lifetime! The persecution, the suffering, the tribulations, the safety of martyrs in heaven, the spiritual reign of Christ, it all started 2000 years ago.

2. JOHN SPECIFICALLY SAYS HE *ALREADY* SHARES IN THEIR *TRIBULATION*

Rev 1:9 "I, John, your brother and fellow partaker in the tribulation and kingdom and perseverance which are in Jesus, was on the island called Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus." (NASB)

John shares their tribulation which had *already* started! It started 2000 years ago, and continues to this day. We see it in history and around the world *any* time a 'beast' government starts to kill God's people.

The Roman persecution against Christians would have been especially troubling to Jewish Christians who expected the Messiah to save Israel from her enemies. What was the point of belonging to this 'new' Israel of the church if it didn't guarantee any national or personal security? How were Christians to understand the eventual fall of the temple? John answers these questions. Revelation is primarily a theological sermon that covered where the true temple now lives, true security exists, and how our true home is being prepared.

It was written TO them and was ABOUT their trials and temptations. But it also applies generally to all Christians in all ages as we all suffer for our Lord. Just as 1 Corinthians was written specifically to the Corinthian church but is also God's word to all generations, so Revelation was written to specific Christians but the themes and message are timeless. (Well, for all Christians living in these Last Days which started in Acts 2!)

3. IT'S A GOSPEL SERMON THAT APPLIES TO ALL AGES, EVEN IF WRITTEN IN APOCALYPTIC LANGUAGE!

Revelation 1:2
"who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ."
The testimony of Jesus Christ is another way of speaking of the basic gospel message of the Apostles.

We know it is apocalyptic (a genre of writing common to Jews between 200BC to 200AD) because of the biblical symbols used in the book. In Revelation 1 Jesus is introduced in a similar style to the Son of Man before the Ancient of Days in Daniel. But then there's a New Testament twist. John mixes and matches his imagery to suit the theology of his sermon. "...and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword." The Sword is the Sword of the Spirit, the word of God. Jesus, the WORD, is about to speak to John!

John has specifically said this book is about the testimony of Jesus Christ and now adds a biblical symbol of the power of that testimony. The Sword of the Spirit is about to speak, so pay attention! Listen up! The Lord is speaking, and (as John has already said) it is a testimony about himself. That's the gospel. Hear and obey! "Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."

Which is kind of hard to do if it is not even directed TO you or ABOUT you. But because this was the gospel being preached, it *IS* to us and about us, and all Christians until the Lord returns.

THE SCROLL IN REVELATION 5 IS ABOUT THE GOSPEL AS WELL!
John weeps that no one can open Daniel's scroll, as it contains the answer to the great mystery of how God was going to redeem his people. But Jesus can open it. Why? Because he "has overcome". And...

"“ Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation."
10 “You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.”

Jesus is the POINT of the whole bible, the subject of the scroll, and the answer to Daniel's question. Jesus is the one who saves people from every nation and creates a brand new kingdom and priests. The GOSPEL is the mystery from ages past now revealed to the Apostles. The scroll of Revelation 5 is not another question to solve but an answer to Daniel's conundrum! It's the gospel.


4. THE GOSPEL ITSELF HAS US THINKING OF THE LORD'S RETURN IN SALVATION AND JUDGEMENT
Critics of Amillennialism often argue that because the last few chapters describe Judgement Day the whole book must be a timetable. The problem is, the description of Judgement Day itself isn't a timetable! Judgement Day is described and repeated 3 times in various chapters at the end of the book. Rather than seeing Revelation as our own personal crystal ball and trying to guess specifically who and what each symbol 'is', we are meant to remember the *theological* importance of each image. And, surprise surprise, here we see the Lord's return is integral to the gospel sermon John is preaching in the first place!

Rev 1:5
"To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

7 “Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen."

In verse 5 Jesus freed us from our sins. But thoughts of Jesus suffering lead John straight to His glorious return.

He is coming back the way he went, on the clouds. This is the ancient symbol of the Cloud Rider; a victorious and mighty ruler like the Ancient of Days. The return of the Cloud Rider is the Return of the King. It means Judgement Day.

According to John, the moment we remember Jesus died for our blood should also be the moment we remember his comforting words that although he suffered (and us with him!), he WILL return. Like any good introduction, John is letting us know what this book will be all about. We see generic picture language that explains the gospel hope of Jesus return to suffering Christians. We will NOT give in to persecution and temptation. We will NOT betray God and live for worldly wealth, worldly philosophy, and worldly powers. Because, in the end, the Lord *will* Judges them all. This is our gospel hope. It's not some weak future timetable that robs the book of relevance and meaning to us.

5. THERE IS NO WAY TO INSERT 2000 YEARS AND REMAIN FAITHFUL TO THE TEXT!
Revelation 4 is often quoted to support a big leap of time into the future.
"After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven... Immediately I was in the Spirit".
Let us note that it does NOT say "Insert 2000 years here please, and then we'll move on to our timeline of future history!" That will not do. It contradicts John's command for *his* readers to hear and understand and obey the *gospel* message he is preaching, and it robs the verses above of their true meaning.

But John *does* give us a timeframe for his book. It is going to cover the Last Days. In Rev 1 he has already said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day" which means he is thinking of the Age of the Spirit which finds its fulfilment on the great and terrible day of the Lord. Here it is again in Rev 4. "Immediately I was in the Spirit". "After these things" is moving on from the specifics of the letters to the 7 churches to general truths across the whole Last Days. A careful study of Acts 2 and Joel will also back this up. We are in the Last Days, and have been for 2000 years. Most of the images in Revelation are theological statements about suffering in the Last Days, not 'events' that must be decoded.

6. THE FACT OF JUDGEMENT DAY IN THE LAST CHAPTERS *STILL* DOES NOT MAKE THIS A TIMETABLE!
Some argue that Judgement Day is an event, therefore the whole book is a series of events, not symbolic sermons. But there's a problem. Judgement Day is described about 3 times in vivid imagery from different angles. Revelation 17, 19, and 20 all describe different aspects of the same Judgement of our Lord! This makes it even *harder* to see Revelation as a future timeline when it seems to waltz around the same things again and again! No, it's symbolically describing important theological truths about Judgement Day. Not arbitrary timetables.

John started off telling us in Chapter 1 that he was writing about the gospel, and the gospel leads to Judgement. We should not be surprised that the book deals with the harsh realities of our lives now, but culminates in our glorious hope! How many stories have you heard describe heartache and pain that is ultimately resolved and rewarded? John is the ultimate storyteller, only the story he's telling is the gospel itself.

7. A FUTURE TIMETABLE MAKES IT COMPLETELY INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO JOHN'S GENERATION.

* Covenant Amils see it as an incredibly PRACTICAL book for all Christians in all ages. It encourages them to not give into suffering and refuse to follow the worldly short-term gains of materialism and worldly power and success and sensuality.
* Futurists make it irrelevant to all but the last generation.

* Covenant Amils see Revelation as clear symbolic sermons that interpret themselves according to other symbols in the bible, and are applicable to all Christians in all situations.
* Futurists see it as utterly dependent on today's headlines, and therefore inaccessible to everyone before this generation.

* Covenant Amils use a consistent symbolic hermeneutic.
* Futurists use an inconsistent 'literal' hermeneutic which contradicts itself so frequently the system implodes. Does Jesus have 7 horns and 7 eyes or not? Is the book literal or not? Nothing futurists have said addresses the fundamental point that their literal hermeneutic is inconsistently applied.

In conclusion for the last poster, I think we are to believe that we are not in the last days. I am not sure what it was trying to portray, sory.
However, I guaranty we are in the final days and even in the falsely called tribulation period. I say falsely because there is not one scripture to prove a 7 year tribulation period. However, This is not my reason to comment.
This thread is so long that I have not read it intirely, I confess. However, I am sure all that I have to say hasd not been said before.
Daniel 9:26,27 tell us that there will be a 7 year covenant, not peace treaty. It will be confirmed by a prince of the Roman Army who destroyed the temple in 70 AD.
There is no Rome today but there is the European Union that is completely governed by the Roman Catholic Monarchy and those accepting it as the head of Christendom.
Thertefore the Roman Empior still exissts today though it has changed slightly.
Now, on January 1st, 2007 Jovier Solana, the then high representative of the EU (European Union) confirmed a covenant with many nations for 7 years. I say confirmed, (as the bible does) because the agreements were made over several years as he negotiated with different leaders in the Middle East. All he did was go into the office on the required day to set his signaturte and "confirm" the agreement for the next 7 year budget perioid.
So we have a 7 year covenant confirmed by a prince of the people who destroyed the temple in 70 AD.
Many argue that this cannot be the correct covenant with 2 main arguements.
One is that the church is still here and the rapture comes first. This can easily be proved error if you will. I won't go there. There are lots of reasons in the post rapture forum to prove this.
The second reason is like the first. There has been an error taught to the church for years that is almost impossible to see unless you are looking for it. This is found in Daniel 8 and the 2300 days. This period is taught to be pointing to many different times but none say exactly what it says. It says it is fort the time of the end in verse 17 or 18. It says it is concerning the abomination set up by the little horn and it says that the place will be turned over to be troden under foot just as it says in Revelation 11:1.
The problem here is that in Daniel 9:27 we read in many bibles that the sacrifice and oblation is taken away in the middle of the 7 years. Those who study prophecy should know what I refer to. However, in the KIng James bible the word middle is translated midst. And though a seasrch in the strongs concordance tells us this word could be middle, it also says it could be midst.
Midst is not middle. Middle points to the center but midst points to anywhere wiuthin the whole 7 years. This is the error that has hidden the covenant from us. That sly Devil is full of tricks.
When you add 2300 days to Jan 1st, 2007 you come to April 17th or 18th of 2013.
Now this is not an interpritation. This is exactly what the word says if we accept what it says and not the extentions of what it says that we have all believed.
Some will say that there is no temple yet and they could not build it by April 17th of this year.
Look at the old testiment where they sacrificed to prepare the place to build the temple before they laid the first stone. We don't need a temple for this verse to be fulfilled.
Some say that the jews will not be ther after the abomination is set up according to Luke 21 when the armies camp about Jerusalem and remove them from their land.
This too is truee, but where in the bible does it say the Jews will build the temple? If the temple is turned over to the apostate church won't it be the free masons who control the buiolding of the temple to set up the Pope as the Vicar of Christ in Jerusalem?
And there is a verse that says only 1/2 of the Jews will be removed during the true great tribulation that should not take as long as 3 years.
You see we have many doctrines in the church that need to be torn down.
Have I said anything that is not written or possible? Is there anything written in a single verse that proves me wrong? I don't mean a teaching or a concept.
We are in the final days of this age. Watch as Syria prepares to fulfill Daniel 11:29-31 next.
Understand that Daniel 7 when speaking of the little horn speaks of Turky. When Daniel 8 speaks of the little horn it is the same; he places the abomination that causes desolation. In Daniel 9:26,27 it speaks of the prince of the EU; he does not place the abomination; he gives the order and causes it. In Daniel 11:31 it speaks of the King of Syria. He does not place the abomination; arms rise up on his part.
These are 3 diferent people and the one who sits in the temple is a fourth.He is not known yet.
So many misconceptions but yet the word rings true.
It can be understood if you study prophecy as light that shines in a dark place until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your heart.

TKICBS said:

In conclusion for the last poster, I think we are to believe that we are not in the last days. I am not sure what it was trying to portray, sory.

Click to expand...

Do you know how the bible uses the term 'last days' and 'end times'? Many Old Testament prophecies speak of the Messiah as kick-starting the times of the end. But the problem was, the Day of the Lord seems to be flattened out, like a mountain range viewed from a distance. The Day of the Lord involves prophecies about Jesus death and resurrection and prophecies about his Judgement, almost as if they were the one and same time to OT prophets. It's called Prophetic Flattening. It's only as you get closer to that mountain range, or encounter Jesus in the New Testament era, that we see he is the Lord who will Judge, but not yet. He came first to save us from our sins. The Judgement comes later. There's a second mountain peak in this mountain range, and quite a valley in between the first and second peak. That valley is 2000 years long, and it is what the bible calls the Last Days. (As seen in Acts 2, Hebrews 1, etc)

It is good that you see the great tribulation is not 7 years. However, if you take a closer look at the verses describing the great tribulation you will find it is from the time the armies surround Jerusalem in Kuke 21 and the abomination is set up in Mat 24 and Mark 13 until the jews are removed from Jusdea. Immediately after the tribulation of those days the asteroid hits. This is the sign in the sun moon and stars. The Lord does not include the asteroid hitting, which will effect the whole earth and cause plagues and death and desease, to the great tribulation. The problerm in prophecy teaching is that this great tribulation period has been atributed to far more events than the Lord related it to and then other scriptures don't make sense. It is best to rel;ate great tribulation to one event. This is the removal of the Jews from Jusea. Then you will not fall into the traps that so often misinterprit the prophecies.

/

re vinsight4u Exactly. The tribulation period is over at the 6th seal and the signs in the sun mopon and stars begin to unfold.

re: the tribulation
sorry to disappoint, but if you're going to refer to Mt 24 & //s you've got to deal with them historically first. If you don't know what I mean after some 1000 posts here, ask me a question.

re: day of the Lord and tribulation
It may surprise everyone to find out that it is also the day of favor, or the acceptable year of the Lord, etc., ie, that the wrath refered to was that which was placed upon our Christ. As in 2 Cor 6, for one instance. Not only is EbedM... smart to explain the flattening, but there is also the matter of the shaping: the event of Christ "looks" like the final day (because there are transactions going on from the day of judgement) and the final day "looks" like Christ to the believer, at least, because it is a day on which the hope and mercy are no longer unseen or unfulfilled.

--Inter