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VOW

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Originally posted by supermagdalena
How do most Catholics actually feel that protestants stand on salvation

I had a parish priest who taught a Bible Study class and gave us a GREAT definition about the difference between Protestant and Catholic salvation viewpoints!

Protestants look at salvation as an EVENT.

Catholics see salvation as a PROCESS.

I'm not talking about a faith vs. works viewpoint, either. Most Protestants will agree, once you have accepted Jesus, you live a "Christian" life. That's essentially what Catholics say. The finer details between the two, though, is where the "Once Saved, Always Saved" argument comes to play.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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Tyler

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Originally posted by supermagdalena
I also have an honest question. How do most Catholics actually feel that protestants stand on salvation? I don't know because i've gotten so many answers, I figure you guys can help me out!

Thanks and Love in Christ.
There are only three types of people on this earth, Spiritual, Carnal, and natural. Being Methodist ,Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. will not get you into heaven. Repenting of your sins, believing that Jesus died on the cross for you, and confessing with your mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord, your God and your saviour will get you into heaven. Without Christ, doctrine means nothing!

P.S.
I'm Catholic.
Jesus Christ Forgives.
 
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ZooMom

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Originally posted by Tyler
Why would you want to pray to Mary? Go straight to the source for best results!
For the same reason that we ask any of our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us. We don't ask anything of Mary but her intercession for us. Her prayers added to ours and made to God. When you ask others to pray for you it doesn't mean that you aren't praying too.

Here is something I posted on another thread that may help. :)

Catholics believe that the saints who have died before us are alive in Heaven and with our Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

We believe that the Body of Christ is WHOLE. That includes the saints on earth and the Saints in Heaven.

Romans 12:5 so in Christ we who are many form one body, and each member belongs to all the others.

1 Corinthians 12:12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ.

1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it.


We believe that asking for intercessory prayer from our brothers and sisters in Christ is entirely Scriptural and extremely profitable.

Matthew 21:22 If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

Romans 15:30 I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me.

2 Corinthians 1:11 as you help us by your prayers. Then many will give thanks on our[1] behalf for the gracious favor granted us in answer to the prayers of many.

Ephesians 6:18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints.

1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone--

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.


We believe that kneeling in prayer is Scriptural and shows reverence, humility, and submission to God's Will

Acts 20:36 When he had said this, he knelt down with all of them and prayed.

Acts 21:5 But when our time was up, we left and continued on our way. All the disciples and their wives and children accompanied us out of the city, and there on the beach we knelt to pray.

Acts 9:40 Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, "Tabitha, get up." She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up.

Luke 22:41 He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed,
 
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Tyler

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I agree with you Sandy, however we find people falling into the trap of praying to Mary For her help not God's. People praying to statues, adoration of Mary etc. It starts with good intentions, but can lead to something else. I'm a catholic, and have been all my life, and have seen it for myself. Hope you can understand.

Jesus Christ Forgives.
 
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ZooMom

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I do understand, Tyler. :) And I blame ignorance. God, however, is much better at sifting a person's intent than we are. If someone's ultimate goal is to obtain God's mercy, forgiveness, aid, etc...then God will know it, and I think forgive their circuitous route to Him. ;)
 
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GreenEyedLady

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I have always read in the bible that we are all saints that belive in God. From the scripture that were posted, I do agree for our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us but i don;t se any verses saying its ok to pray to the dead saints or any scripture showing any other person that prayed this way.
I used to be Catholic, but God lead me down a differant path. I have many catholic loved ones, some who don't read scripture and some who do. It is so important for ALL people to read scripture!
GEL
 
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Wolseley

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From the scripture that were posted, I do agree for our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us but i don;t se any verses saying its ok to pray to the dead saints or any scripture showing any other person that prayed this way.
You probably haven't seen any verses of Scripture which mention it---but don't forget that the Catholic Church does not base its sole authority on just the Bible. We also depend on the things the Apostles told the earliest Christians by word of mouth, which have been passed down in the Church since that time.

Both what the Apostles said by word of mouth, and the written Bible, are the equal, divinely inspired Word of God (2 Thess 2:15), and Catholics base their faith on both of them. I can give you plenty of examples from ancient Christian writings which clearly indicate that the early Christians did indeed ask the saints for their intercession. :)
 
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VOW

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Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
I do agree for our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us but i don;t se any verses saying its ok to pray to the dead saints or any scripture showing any other person that prayed this way.
GEL

Well, perhaps you need to take into consideration that the saints are not dead! They are alive in Christ!

If you didn't accept it that they are indeed still alive, then, yes, it certainly wouldn't make any sense to "pray to dead saints." That would be as logical as if I were to ask my desk chair to pray for me. (If it could pray, it would probably only pray that I stay on my diet!)

Since the saints are indeed alive in Christ, why, I would think they would be honored to pray for us. I certainly couldn't imagine them in the position to say "no" to such a request!


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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GreenEyedLady

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I understand were you both are comming from even though i do not agree.
WE are all saints in Gods eyes because we believe in HIM. Being a saint does not mean man must declare them so......wwe just are!
Psalms 16:3  But to the saints that are in the earth, and to the excellent, in whom is all my delight.

Saints are one separated from the world and consecrated to God; one holy by profession and by covenant; a believer in Christ (Ps. 16:3; Rom. 1:7; 8:27; Phil. 1:1; Heb. 6:10).
The "saints" spoken of in Jude 1:14 are probably not the disciples of Christ, but the "innumerable company of angels" (Heb. 12:22; Ps. 68:17), with reference to Deut. 33:2.
This word is also used of the holy dead (Matt. 27:52; Rev. 18:24). It was not used as a distinctive title of the apostles and evangelists and of a "spiritual nobility" till the fourth century. In that sense it is not a scriptural title
 
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Tyler

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The praying to Mary has lead to many widespread errors in peoples faith. I'm not saying we should disrespect the virgin mother, but remember it was not of her own choosing that she became the mother of God. God chose her. Many people now have fallen into the trap of treating Mary as God. This is not just an isolated case, where I live there are statues everywhere. This should not be, how something can start out innocent and turn directly against the commandments and scripture, should be a warning to all. Nowhere does it say anything other than the need to pray to God, and for praying help from our bretheren here on earth. Would you continue to pray to Mary even if it caused your brother to fall?
 
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VOW

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Originally posted by Tyler
Nowhere does it say anything other than the need to pray to God, and for praying help from our bretheren here on earth.


Hmmm.... where does it say SPECIFICALLY "brethren here on earth"???


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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ZooMom

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Ok. I could be wrong but I am getting the feeling that we keep flying by each other.

The Saints in heaven are Alive, not dead. If they are dead, what is the purpose of our faith?

The Body of Christ is WHOLE. Not scattered, not in pieces, not broken. WHOLE. When saints (note the little 's') die in the flesh, their spirits are raised to eternal life in Christ and with Christ. They are still part of the Body, just as we are who remain alive in the flesh. We are all saints. I wholeheartedly agree. And when we die and rise with Christ, we are still Saints. Just with a different address. :)
 
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ZooMom

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Originally posted by Tyler
Sorry Vow I missed your point "on earth." Where does it say to pray to anyone in Heaven, other than God?

Sorry
Tyler
'Pray' only means 'to ask'. I have already given you Scriptures that show that we are to pray for each other and that asking other Christians for prayers and intercession is more than ok.
 
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VOW

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Originally posted by Tyler
Sorry Vow I missed your point "on earth." Where does it say to pray to anyone in Heaven, other than God?

Tyler,

It was a deliberate "trick question." The fact is, your cites you gave above just say "brethren." And as Sandy pointed out, you have brethren here on earth and in Heaven. You aren't supposed to have anything to do with necromancy, but if those who have died are alive with God, there truly is no reason why they cannot also pray for you.

You don't HAVE to ask anyone to pray for you, a friend here on earth, or a saint in Heaven. It's just comforting to know that you can.


Peace be with you,
~VOW
 
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