Unlock your smart phone? Up to 10 years in prison, 500,000$ fine.

The RIAA is the enemy here and our moronic politicians.

You can buy unlocked phones right now. You just have to pay full price for them. If you don't want a locked phone, don't get one that's subsidized by a service contract.

I'm generally pro-consumer, but this strikes me as a bunch of whining.

-Dan.

iluvatar5150 said:

You can buy unlocked phones right now. You just have to pay full price for them. If you don't want a locked phone, don't get one that's subsidized by a service contract.

I'm generally pro-consumer, but this strikes me as a bunch of whining.

-Dan.

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The threat of prison time if you do something to the phone your bought that someone doesn't like, comes off as whining?

And you claim you are "generally pro-consumer"?

Seriously?

iluvatar5150 said:

You can buy unlocked phones right now. You just have to pay full price for them. If you don't want a locked phone, don't get one that's subsidized by a service contract.

I'm generally pro-consumer, but this strikes me as a bunch of whining.

-Dan.

Click to expand...

If you buy a phone with your service contract, it's your phone. You can do with it what you want, it is your property. You have not rented or leased the phone, you bought it. That you bought the phone with a discount does not change that.

It also has nothing to do with protection of intellectual property, given that the only thing you do is enabling you to use other service contracts than the one of your service provider.

You are not being pro-consumer by stating that I should not have the freedom to do what I want with my own property.


To provide a bit of international perspective, in the Netherlands mobile phone service providers offer to unlock your phone for a fee. After your contract has ended all service providers offer to unlock your phone for free. And there are shops that offer to unlock your phone on basically every street corner.

If you buy it outright it is unlocked anyway, you can do what you want to your phone you would think. Actually it worked out cheaper in my situation pay $15 for calls and data on my phone plan i can terminate anytime (not contract).

If you buy under a plan with a supplied phone you usually pay HEAPS more in the long run.



Also on a tangent to the OP I would not Jailbreak my iphone 5 because Apple scrutinises its software for compliance and security. actually like the reassurance of a standard phone with nothing suspect going on.

TerranceL said:

Possibly, it'll depend on how much they don't want you to unlock your phone.

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Private companies can not legally take active measures to 'sting' you and no Police or Government agencies would take the effort because it'd require violating too many civil rights for little benefit, especially when this law is likely to get over-turned.

Which is why they go after the people who host the content. Unless of course you are torrenting and then they know exactly who you are.

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Which is why you don't do something so stupid as to leave your Torrents as Traceable.

DrkSdBls said:

Private companies can not legally take active measures to 'sting' you and no Police or Government agencies would take the effort because it'd require violating too many civil rights for little benefit, especially when this law is likely to get over-turned.

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Since when? This is exactly what the RIAA and the MPAA does all the time.

TerranceL said:

Since when? This is exactly what the RIAA and the MPAA does all the time.

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Actually, what they can legally do is very limited. Too many Horror stories about Armed SWAT breaking down Little Jonny's door and Confiscating his Hard Drive full of Copies of CD/DVDs has painted an inaccurate picture of what they can and can not do.

Tomk80 said:

If you buy a phone with your service contract, it's your phone. You can do with it what you want, it is your property. You have not rented or leased the phone, you bought it. That you bought the phone with a discount does not change that.

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You bought the phone under the terms of your service contract. If the terms of that contract say that you can't unlock the phone w/o breaking their legally-protected encryption...

-Dan.

Tomk80 said:

If you buy a phone with your service contract, it's your phone. You can do with it what you want, it is your property. You have not rented or leased the phone, you bought it. That you bought the phone with a discount does not change that.

It also has nothing to do with protection of intellectual property, given that the only thing you do is enabling you to use other service contracts than the one of your service provider.

You are not being pro-consumer by stating that I should not have the freedom to do what I want with my own property.


To provide a bit of international perspective, in the Netherlands mobile phone service providers offer to unlock your phone for a fee. After your contract has ended all service providers offer to unlock your phone for free. And there are shops that offer to unlock your phone on basically every street corner.

Click to expand...

In the United States this isn't typically true. Most people using cell phones in the US are given a "free" phone for signing a 2-year service contract. The actual language is that the phone isn't purchased, it in fact still belongs to the cell provider until the contract is fulfilled. Most people end up paying more for the phone and their plan because they are paying interest on the purchase price of their "free" (or heavily discounted) phone -- but they just see the "free" part of the transaction.

While I agree with this being a bad law, maybe it will wake some people up to the fact that subsidized phones are a bad deal for consumers.

DrkSdBls said:

Private companies can not legally take active measures to 'sting' you and no Police or Government agencies would take the effort because it'd require violating too many civil rights for little benefit, especially when this law is likely to get over-turned.

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Some organizations pay a bounty to informants - but that is mainly for corporations rather than individuals.

Maren said:

In the United States this isn't typically true. Most people using cell phones in the US are given a "free" phone for signing a 2-year service contract. The actual language is that the phone isn't purchased, it in fact still belongs to the cell provider until the contract is fulfilled. Most people end up paying more for the phone and their plan because they are paying interest on the purchase price of their "free" (or heavily discounted) phone -- but they just see the "free" part of the transaction.

While I agree with this being a bad law, maybe it will wake some people up to the fact that subsidized phones are a bad deal for consumers.

Click to expand...

Okay, that is definitely a difference with the Netherlands, where the phone becomes your ownership. Mobile phone providers in the Netherlands have agreed with each other that they will remove the simlock after 1 year for free upon request of the user, even though they do not have a legal obligation to do so.

In the Netherlands as well, these "free" or "discounted" phones are often a bad deal. If you run the numbers, you are generally better off buying a mobile separately and getting a sim-only contract, or that the difference is very small. Add to that the advantage of having lower monthly payments (which is generally better, just in case something happens that might threaten your ability to pay the bills).

iluvatar5150 said:

You bought the phone under the terms of your service contract. If the terms of that contract say that you can't unlock the phone w/o breaking their legally-protected encryption...

-Dan.

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Okay, that much is true. But note that in this case you are not talking about a law that prohibits the removal of a sim-lock, but rather your legal obligation to adhere to a contract you have entered into. There is a significant difference between these two approaches.

Digging a bit deeper Dutch legislation in this has actually already had cases around this that are interesting.First, it is not a DCMA issue according to Dutch legislation, because the encryption code does not satisfy the conditions of being an original work.

Second, some providers do indeed prohibit unlocking the mobile phone in the first year of use of the contract. And that brings you immediately to your way out. Because according to the Dutch law, the contract starts at first use. So if you receive the phone, unlock the sim and then start using it for the first time, you have unlocked it before the official start date of the contract, and thus did not break the contract. As soon as you start use of the contract, you are not allowed to unlock the sim anymore for a year.

There is also the case of the iPhones. In order to remove the simlock, you actually have to hack the software of the iPhone. Doing so is legal (it's your phone), but providing the means to do so (the necessary computer programs) is not.

Case law can be interesting sometimes.

Want a phone that you can unlock? Look for a company that sells one.

On average, over the course of two years, people end up paying $1000 to $2000 for a phone they got for "free"

Also, after two years, that phone would be really outdated by technology standards.

I really don't understand how people can so that to themselves, all just to have the newest, slimmest, phone on the market.

Crudo89 said:

On average, over the course of two years, people end up paying $1000 to $2000 for a phone they got for "free"

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Is that $1000 to $2000 including the Service, or on top of the service fees?
If I own a phone and use cellular company XYZ will I be paying them $1000 to $2000 Less than the one that got their Cell Phone from XYZ for "Free" ?

Tomk80 said:

Okay, that is definitely a difference with the Netherlands, where the phone becomes your ownership. Mobile phone providers in the Netherlands have agreed with each other that they will remove the simlock after 1 year for free upon request of the user, even though they do not have a legal obligation to do so.

In the Netherlands as well, these "free" or "discounted" phones are often a bad deal. If you run the numbers, you are generally better off buying a mobile separately and getting a sim-only contract, or that the difference is very small. Add to that the advantage of having lower monthly payments (which is generally better, just in case something happens that might threaten your ability to pay the bills).

Click to expand...

As a general rule, it is a terrible deal. The problem is that all the major carriers, to get their better level of service (including things like roaming), you have to have a contract. When prepaid carriers Cricket and Virgin Mobile USA started offering the iPhone last year, it was shown how much could be saved by switching to one of the prepaid carriers, despite having to buy the phone outright. It points out that, for those that only need 300 minutes to talk per month, they could save over $1000 in 2 years with the prepaid carrier, including the cost of the phone.

pgp_protector said:

Is that $1000 to $2000 including the Service, or on top of the service fees?
If I own a phone and use cellular company XYZ will I be paying them $1000 to $2000 Less than the one that got their Cell Phone from XYZ for "Free" ?

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Carriers are much better off giving you a $500 phone for free with a two year contract because they'll get way more out of you in two years just in your payments for service.

This past holiday season I saw the Galaxy SIII with a two year contract selling for $50 to $150 just for the phone, that's not counting the tax which is on the actual price of the phone which is like $600 to $700. Then you have like $60 to $100 monthly payments under contract.

For some, that's feasible. For me, that is completely ridiculous.

Crudo89 said:

Also, after two years, that phone would be really outdated by technology standards.

I really don't understand how people can so that to themselves, all just to have the newest, slimmest, phone on the market.

Click to expand...

I thought about that the other day when I saw a video on the new IPad.