a simple way to show disapproval of ObamaCare

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

Look, man nit to be rude but I am on THREE count them three medications will be on at least one or two probably for life I KNOW the importance of healthcare.

Click to expand...

You just said in a previous post that you are willing to refuse treatment if needed....

SPB1987 said:

You realize some diseases are unavoidable no matter how good you take care of yourself?

Click to expand...

Death is also unavoidable, but I will continue to take care of myself where I can eliminate as much sickness as possible and have continued quality of life. I really think we can do better in the US for prevention.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

that is quite clear. What should people like myself do though, as according to you we should prevent as much as possibile I am young are trying to lose weight eat right ECT, but still I have at LEAST one health condition that medication is about the only way to control anywhere close to completely and even with medication I STILL run the risk of the condition showing up, which happens to be seizures, likely cased by CP at or very soon after birth.

Click to expand...

Sorry AllorNothing to hear of your medical condition, and I know you will overcome this through the help of our Lord. I look upon health (and other problems in life) from a holistic standpoint. In other words, what tools and assistance that will work together or separately to help solve a problem. If prayer is needed, then I go to the Divine Source. If an alternative medicine is the answer then, I use this source. If conventional treatment is needed and will help me, I use this. I try not to take a defeatist attitude.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

Wait you KNOW I can overcome it by the LORD?

Click to expand...

Yes, expect a healing!

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

What did they say about Medicare?

Click to expand...

People use to say that they were just going to refuse to pay into it when it was first enacted and that they would accept the responsibility themselves.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

Wait you KNOW I can overcome it by the LORD?

Click to expand...

Well, That is That and This is This.

Do you really think all of the costs hospitals incur when they frequently provide ER services to the uninsured(who probably never pay for the services) are not being passed on to everyone us?

Click to expand...

Just to echo a prior poster, if you need Emergency care today and do not have insurance, the rest of us (with insurance) are paying for your care.

wing2000 said:

Just to echo a prior poster, if you need Emergency care today and do not have insurance, the rest of us (with insurance) are paying for your care.

Click to expand...

That was my point.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

Do not use it. They cannot MAKE you accept treatment no matter what they do. If enough people decide to go private or refuse treatment, then either the economy and therefore taxes will get worse because people are out of work OR they would hang it up. They also cannot make us accept help just as they cannot make us accept insurance. If someone has the means to pay then why should they have insurance? I am saying pay it flat. If something is $500 dollars and you pay the $500 they can't tell you you can't and they sure cannot make you accept treatment. Keep in mind half the people were not for the bill at all.

Click to expand...

This sounds like an idea, certainly. But I'm willing to bet almost every cent I have that if you woke up tomorrow suffering horribly from some unknown ailment...or worse, if your child awoke with a horrible illness, you would do everything in your power and call on the powers that be to save your child. No matter what.

As the Audioslave lyric goes:


I don't mean that to be offensive but when it comes to pain and health I suspect all this "high minded" rhetoric will fly out the window.

At that time you'll be thankful someone went to bat for this eventuality.

Unlike the promise of an afterlife, everyone will face illness at some point. And unlike the promises of heaven, we can know the outcome of our failure to care for each other and establish a national "minimum" we will allow people to fall into.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

Well I plan to have NO Children (NOTHING to do with Obomacare) (even if I did , however I would get them treated but as an adult must I be if I do not want it?

Click to expand...

I'm not saying you must get treated. I am merely saying that:

1. You, like all humans, are prone to getting ill. Many people will face some serious medical issue at some point in their life.

2. Medical costs without insurance coverage will quickly lead to bankruptcy (estimates show that up to 50% of bankruptcies in the US have a significant "medical care cost" vector)

This is why we buy insurance. If you never have a physical problem in your entire life (unlikely, especially if you live to an older age) you are out money, but if you do have a medical issue, you will not be economically decimated.

It's called "insurance" for a reason.

The pre-ACA insurance system was aimed at profits while providing some care to people. The current ACA measures are put in place to moderate profits by increasing the demand for care.

You don't have to like the fact that people are better off if they can get access to health care. And you don't have to care about yourself.

I'm just saying that if you awoke tomorrow with a horrible, aggressive disease that would bankrupt you in less than 2 visits to the hospital your attitude would change. Not that you would be a bad person for that.

People, when faced with the awful prospect of physical pain and mortality will take non-ideological actions.

We've seen it a million times. People who take an "idealistic" approach to a topic will ultimately cave when it reaches a "pain point".

If you don't like insurance and don't like the fact that this is a means by which more people can get healthcare then do what you wish. If you, however, ever get ill (as most of us do at some point), just remember that it is even likely the Ayn Rand considered Medicare as she was suffering from lung cancer in her later years.

You are free to do whatever you wish to help destroy a system that will ultimately help you in 9 out of 10 possible future scenarios. I think it would be wisest to think it through first.

wing2000 said:

Just to echo a prior poster, if you need Emergency care today and do not have insurance, the rest of us (with insurance) are paying for your care.

Click to expand...

And if you need emergency care and do have insurance all those that also have insurance are paying for your care. Therefore, with mandatory universal health insurance the situation seems to be identical. Those that do not need treatment must pay for that which they do not need. Seems to me then that in that regard, Obamcare is no different than what preceded it except that now not only taxpayers, but all citizens are required to pay and pay a somewhat similar amount based as far as I can tell ( there seems to be a lot of uncertainty yet as to just what Obamacare encompasses) less on income than the previous situation lessening the burden on the well to do and increasing the burden on the middle class and working poor. To each according to the governing authorities' view of perceived need, from each according to the whim of the governing authorities.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

What do you mean do I understand what it is? It is requiring me to buy insurance that I may not want or need and what is called a sliply slope.

Click to expand...

Slippery slope is something different.

I personally need the insurance, but as an adult and a young one at that ( I am on medications ( three) so not quite as healthy as many my age, which by the way is WHY I intend to refuse a particular treatment should I EVER need it but should folks really be required to get protection I think not if they understand what could and what likely WILL happen one day if they do not.

Click to expand...

Obamacare requires that you have insurance (true) which you don't want but do have because you need it - do I understand you correctly here?

You object to the requirement to have this insurance even though in your case you actually need it (and have it)? If this is correct, then while I understand your objection I disagree with it.

What I don't understand is "WHY I intend to refuse a particular treatment should I EVER need it." Obamacare doesn't require that you accept medical treatment, only that you be covered for it should you require and want it. What is your point in refusing it?

You seem to be confused in thinking that Obamacare requires you to be treated, not just covered for treatment.

grasping the after wind said:

And if you need emergency care and do have insurance all those that also have insurance are paying for your care. Therefore, with mandatory universal health insurance the situation seems to be identical. Those that do not need treatment must pay for that which they do not need. Seems to me then that in that regard, Obamcare is no different than what preceded it except that now not only taxpayers, but all citizens are required to pay and pay a somewhat similar amount based as far as I can tell ( there seems to be a lot of uncertainty yet as to just what Obamacare encompasses) less on income than the previous situation lessening the burden on the well to do and increasing the burden on the middle class and working poor. To each according to the governing authorities' view of perceived need, from each according to the whim of the governing authorities.

Click to expand...

As another poster said, chances are you will need healthcare....everyone will likely need it at some point. A healthy population with access to health care regardless of income is a productive population.