Sen. Dennis Kruse Pushes For Mandatory Lord's Prayer Indiana Public schools

cow451 said:

Actually, I am old enough to remember reciting the Lord's Prayer in public school.
I think we did the Protestant version.

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You most likely did recite the protestant version. In the course of American history the public schools provided a thoroughly protestant centric education and that is how we came to have so many Catholic private schools.

I'll bet you a dollar that they will be asking God to "forgive us our trespasses" rather than "forgive us our debts." Can't have nobody forgiving any debts. No siree Bob! That would be communistical!

revanneosl said:

I'll bet you a dollar that they will be asking God to "forgive us our trespasses" rather than "forgive us our debts." Can't have nobody forgiving any debts. No siree Bob! That would be communistical!

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Yeah I had been attending a church that used the phrase "forgive us our debts" and the church I attend, now that I have moved, uses the phrase "forgive us our trespasses". It took me a while to get that line right. I do think it is funny how each church has their particularities even among United Methodists Churches.

Chris81 said:

You most likely did recite the protestant version. In the course of American history the public schools provided a thoroughly protestant centric education and that is how we came to have so many Catholic private schools.

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So the Catholics protested the Protestants.

cow451 said:

So the Catholics protested the Protestants.

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Something like that.

cow451 said:

Actually, I am old enough to remember reciting the Lord's Prayer in public school.
I think we did the Protestant version.

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What's the other version?

MachZer0 said:

What's the other version?

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The Catholic version

MachZer0 said:

What's the other version?

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The Lord's Prayer

Protestants traditionally end the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 with, "for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever. Amen." However, the Rev. Ernie Lassman of Messiah Lutheran church points out that the oldest manuscripts do not contain this phrase. Nonetheless, some Protestant Bible translations include this wording, although they often acknowledge the manuscript variations in footnotes. Vatican-approved Bible translations reject this wording altogether on the grounds that they are not a part of the original prayer as spoken by Jesus but rather an ancient "pious addition," according to Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic Church in Linwood, New Jersey.

The Differences in Matthew Between Catholic and Protestant Bibles | eHow.com

Rion said:

The Lord's Prayer

Protestants traditionally end the Lord's Prayer in Matthew 6:9-13 with, "for thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory forever. Amen." However, the Rev. Ernie Lassman of Messiah Lutheran church points out that the oldest manuscripts do not contain this phrase. Nonetheless, some Protestant Bible translations include this wording, although they often acknowledge the manuscript variations in footnotes. Vatican-approved Bible translations reject this wording altogether on the grounds that they are not a part of the original prayer as spoken by Jesus but rather an ancient "pious addition," according to Our Lady of Sorrows Catholic Church in Linwood, New Jersey.

The Differences in Matthew Between Catholic and Protestant Bibles | eHow.com

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So which do you think will be the official "Lord's Prayer" of Indiana? The Catholic version or the Protestant?

TLK Valentine said:

So which do you think will be the official "Lord's Prayer" of Indiana? The Catholic version or the Protestant?

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I'm not convinced there is a Catholic and Protestant version. I know as a Protestant that we have quoted both versions since both say the same thing

MachZer0 said:

I'm not convinced there is a Catholic and Protestant version. I know as a Protestant that we have quoted both versions since both say the same thing

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It's become traditional in many Protestant churches to add the words that used to be said by a priest to the prayer itself. I don't think it even occurs to people that is what they're doing, or why those churches started doing it that way (they were protesting).
For example, here is how it is done during Divine Liturgy:

Priest: And make us worthy, O Master, that with boldness and without condemnation we may dare to call on Thee, the heavenly God, as Father, and to say:

People: Our Father, Who art in heaven, Hallowed be Thy name; Thy Kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil.

Priest: For Thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, now and ever, and unto ages of ages.

People: Amen.

MachZer0 said:

I'm not convinced there is a Catholic and Protestant version. I know as a Protestant that we have quoted both versions since both say the same thing

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Well, what you're convinced of is irrelevant -- If this bill passes, Indiana is going to have to choose an "official" Lord's Prayer... if not in the text of the bill itself, then the courts will have to invariably step in when the legal challenges inevitably arise.

TLK Valentine said:

Well, what you're convinced of is irrelevant -- If this bill passes, Indiana is going to have to choose an "official" Lord's Prayer... if not in the text of the bill itself, then the courts will have to invariably step in when the legal challenges inevitably arise.

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If there's no difference in the versions, there isn't much to decide in that regard

MachZer0 said:

If there's no difference in the versions, there isn't much to decide in that regard

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it would appear that the Catholics and Protestants think there is a difference -- hence, a decision has to be made.

I think the best solution would be to have maybe 5 minutes each day of silent prayer and reflection in schools.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

IF students were not required to say it THEMSELVES it would be just fine.

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I actually think starting the day with a moment of silence would be beneficial. That way students can say their own private prayers in the way they desire. You wont have conflicts of having to decide an official way of ending the Lord's Prayer. Each christian student could pray the Lord's Prayer in accordance with their individual religious traditions.

ALLorNOTHINGatall4CHRIST said:

IF students were not required to say it THEMSELVES it would be just fine.

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Then what would be the point of having a bill at all?

Creech said:

I think the best solution would be to have maybe 5 minutes each day of silent prayer and reflection in schools.

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There already is. I graduated in '07 here in Nevada, and all through High School there was about 1 minute of silence during the morning intercom for students to do whatever. Some would pray (or at least look like they're doing it), others wouldn't, and nobody complained. I don't mind this, and I don't see why it would need to be changed.

Creech said:

I think the best solution would be to have maybe 5 minutes each day of silent prayer and reflection in schools.

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I think the best solution would be for the school to not have anything to do leading kids to pray and get back to teaching.