Obamacare and Smoking

Veritas

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It is reported 50,000 individuals die per year due to secondhand smoke. These individuals may have needed the same respiratory treatment as smokers diagnosed with COPD: nebulizer breathing treatments and/or oxygen therapy.

I have read reports linking SIDS to smoking (neural damage).

Smoking cigarettes is a threat to anyone in their path.

However, how will someone with COPD cope without oxygen therapy or nebulizer breathing treatments, especially if, for maintenance purposes, briefly removing a cannula from a concentrator to a portable tank causes a patient to purse their lips together like a fish? Smokers and their victims are big time patients. They need healthcare.

If you smoke, rethink it.





But the government wants to force vaccinate everyone. And yet vaccines have numerous toxic chemicals in them, too. If you think inhaling them is bad, what about injecting them into your bloodstream?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
 
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kermit

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But the government wants to force vaccinate everyone. And yet vaccines have numerous toxic chemicals in them, too. If you think inhaling them is bad, what about injecting them into your bloodstream?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
Cholorine is extremely toxic until it's bonded with sodium. => NaCl

Oxygen and hydrogen are both extremely flamable until they are bonded. => H2O

Looking at the raw components of a chemical compound it erroneous at best.
 
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Veritas

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Cholorine is extremely toxic until it's bonded with sodium. => NaCl

Oxygen and hydrogen are both extremely flamable until they are bonded. => H2O

Looking at the raw components of a chemical compound it erroneous at best.

If you want to inject formaldahyde & heavy metals into your body, knock yourself out. I'll pass.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Don't smokers already get charged more than non-smokers? What's the story here?

Yes, they already have premiums that are typically 10-20% above what non-smokers pay.

In addition to that, the average smoker is also paying an extra $1,000/year in taxes ($2,200/year if you live in a place like New York)...thus the reason the government attached a transportation bill rider to try to eliminate the "roll your own" places.

The tax revenue smokers provide is to the tune of around $46,800,000,000 at the state and federal levels. You could say that the amount is "breath-taking" (pun intended :p)

If what's being said is true and Obamacare regulations intend on overcharging smokers to get even more revenue out of them, what's next? Are they going to implement a "fat tax" like Denmark tried? For those who aren't familiar, they charged an additional 1.9% tax on any food item that had a fat content over 2.3 percent.

So...sell people on the idea of government provided healthcare on the grounds that you'll make it cheaper, then once everyone falls for it, nickel & dime them for every little thing you can to the point that healthcare actually becomes more expensive than it was before. (Unless, that is, you plan on switching to a vegan diet and drinking only water)
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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DrkSdBls

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ObamaCare knows no bounds.

Except what you're (Purposefully) ignoring is that fact that THIS ISN'T JUST OBAMACARE. You'd find the exact same Burden with any Insurance Company/Policy. There isn't an Insurance Company in the world that would not force those who live High-Risk Life-styles to pay more for their Insurance.

Exact Same Premiums, Just a Different Policy.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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LOL. As a major consumer of bacon, I know ;)

Time for a triple decker with cheddar and bacon.

The surprising part of that is, you'll gain more weight from the bread & condiments than you will from the cheese, beef, & bacon.

I've been going low-carb for a few months now...eating a lot of steak and bacon lol.

I've dropped from 212 down to 178, and my cholesterol actually got better...so much for that crackpot food pyramid lol
 
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conamer

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The surprising part of that is, you'll gain more weight from the bread & condiments than you will from the cheese, beef, & bacon.

I've been going low-carb for a few months now...eating a lot of steak and bacon lol.

I've dropped from 212 down to 178, and my cholesterol actually got better...so much for that crackpot food pyramid lol
Yep, it's because body fat is caused by insulin converting glucose into body fat because sugar is toxic. More than 5 grams of sugar in the blood requires the body to crank out insulin to store it as body fat if it is not burned as energy. I had similar results. My Trygicerides dropped 75% in three weeks(blood fat).Blood fat is the easiest to reduce with diet. No statin can compete with that.
 
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wing2000

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I would have no problem with it at all if there wasn't a law forcing me to get insurance.

You know what I'll do, I'll just lie. Let them prove I smoke.

When we recently signed up for insurance with my wife's employer, we both had to take a urine test in order to prove we did not smoke (i.e.. to get the non-smoker discount).

I have no doubt that soon insurance companies will be testing for cholesterol and other health indicators.
 
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Jeffwhosoever

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The surprising part of that is, you'll gain more weight from the bread & condiments than you will from the cheese, beef, & bacon.

I've been going low-carb for a few months now...eating a lot of steak and bacon lol.

I've dropped from 212 down to 178, and my cholesterol actually got better...so much for that crackpot food pyramid lol

Another brilliant work of the government. :doh:
 
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wintermile

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But the government wants to force vaccinate everyone. And yet vaccines have numerous toxic chemicals in them, too. If you think inhaling them is bad, what about injecting them into your bloodstream?

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf

Why don't you add genetic pollution too?

Unlike many writers I listen to, I haven't a calling for the arms crossed, head held even posture. That exact posture purposeful for communicating non-threatening excellence at hand.

The Torture Mother, Gertrude Baniszewski, sadistically led youth to join in on the torture of a teenage girl whom died. The teenager's body was covered with cigarette burns. The Torture Mother would not know how to manage a real threat.

Several years ago, 53.6 percent of 3-11 year-olds resided in smokers' residences. These children depended on protection from health related threats.

Fed up with the lack of solid educative incentives, tomorrow's CExOs (Chief Experience Officers) may oversee stakeholders demanding a smoke-free residence campaign. Collective projects financed by insurance companies producing anti-smoking advertisements in a non-tolerating format directly dictates an overall message. A precise simulation project depicting positive and/or negative feedback loops triggered by inhaling/ingesting secondhand smoke from little ones in smoke-filled residences leaves no room for neutrality. A smoker line-up project consisting of Torture Mother types ---for one--- leaves no room for neutrality. Though the latter project combined with the right phrases is too much meat for those who skip chewing.


As I said before, smokers benefit from healthcare. My compassion towards them will not diminish, only build. My compassion will impact smokers when I support those who send a direct message to refrain from smoking in the presence of others.
 
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iluvatar5150

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The surprising part of that is, you'll gain more weight from the bread & condiments than you will from the cheese, beef, & bacon.

I've been going low-carb for a few months now...eating a lot of steak and bacon lol.

I've dropped from 212 down to 178, and my cholesterol actually got better...so much for that crackpot food pyramid lol

It depends on what your goal is. It's probably not going to help your long-term risk of heart disease, but for straight up weight loss, yeah.

The problem isn't so much the food pyramid as it is that few people actually stick to what it says. It's pretty easy to have an unbalanced diet and to blow past 2000 cal/day. The food pyramid is fine for overall health and you need a certain amount of carbs for various body functions. If you're lifting weights as part of your regimen, you'll probably notice that you have more energy and endurance when you've got a healthy amount of carbs in your diet.

But I'm not discouraging you from your diet - that was how I dropped from 235 to 195. Depending on what your goals are, it'll probably get you 80-90% of the way there.


Yep, it's because body fat is caused by insulin converting glucose into body fat because sugar is toxic.

How, pray tell, is sugar toxic? Your body needs sugars to function.

-Dan.
 
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conamer

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It depends on what your goal is. It's probably not going to help your long-term risk of heart disease, but for straight up weight loss, yeah.

The problem isn't so much the food pyramid as it is that few people actually stick to what it says. It's pretty easy to have an unbalanced diet and to blow past 2000 cal/day. The food pyramid is fine for overall health and you need a certain amount of carbs for various body functions. If you're lifting weights as part of your regimen, you'll probably notice that you have more energy and endurance when you've got a healthy amount of carbs in your diet.

But I'm not discouraging you from your diet - that was how I dropped from 235 to 195. Depending on what your goals are, it'll probably get you 80-90% of the way there.




How, pray tell, is sugar toxic? Your body needs sugars to function.

-Dan.
Ask a diabetic, insulin is also damaging when too much is needed to reduce blood glucose. We aren't designed to store large amounts of glucose. That is why you see higher consumption rates of sugars now and a higher rate of modern diseases today.
 
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conamer

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It depends on what your goal is. It's probably not going to help your long-term risk of heart disease, but for straight up weight loss, yeah.

The problem isn't so much the food pyramid as it is that few people actually stick to what it says. It's pretty easy to have an unbalanced diet and to blow past 2000 cal/day. The food pyramid is fine for overall health and you need a certain amount of carbs for various body functions. If you're lifting weights as part of your regimen, you'll probably notice that you have more energy and endurance when you've got a healthy amount of carbs in your diet.

But I'm not discouraging you from your diet - that was how I dropped from 235 to 195. Depending on what your goals are, it'll probably get you 80-90% of the way there.




How, pray tell, is sugar toxic? Your body needs sugars to function.

-Dan.
Ask a diabetic, insulin is also damaging when too much is needed to reduce blood glucose. We aren't designed to store large amounts of glucose and remain healthy. That is why you see higher consumption rates of sugars now and a higher rate of modern diseases today.
 
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Tomk80

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That's just not true. While smokers may die sooner on average, smoking related health problems will start disproportionately sooner. Many smoking related problems can begin in a person's 30's.

A Dutch consumer program had a look at this some time ago for the Netherlands. The program is called the "accounting chamber" (approximate translation) and makes a rough estimate of the costs of a certain issue*. There calculations indicated that smokers cost way less than non-smokers. The reason was that while smokers cost more starting from their fifties to their sixties, they also bring in a lot of taxes through the cigarette tax. Meanwhile the average reduction in life span produces such a massive reduction in combined retirement benefits, pension and old-age health care that they more than make up for the added health costs.

Of course these were ball park estimates, and I don't know the numbers for the US. These would probably come out different due to the inefficiency of your health care system. But for the Netherlands as calculated in that program, health care costs would have to be about 3 times higher to come close to the costs of retirement and old-age health care.

Personally, I think this is a bad idea ethically. What other high-risk behaviors do you want to tax. Should people with a sitting profession be taxed more, unless they can show that they work out three times a week? What level of evidence do you require before you add something new to the list of "approved" or "non-approved" behaviors? And in how many different ways are you going to tax someone for their bad behaviors (given that smokers are already taxed highly for just buying cigarettes, even in the US). But then, I did boxing for a long time, so I have a stake in this (boxing is a would fall under high-risk behaviors, with the high risk of concussion and higher risk of early-onset dementia for boxers).

*Other fun accounting topics in the past years: the cost of having a pet, the costs of having a kid (from pregnancy until leaving the house), what are the costs versus profits of bread from the supermarket versus bread from the bakery, costs of an election (including the costs of the red pencils (12 eurocents a piece)) and how do free apps make money.
 
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Tomk80

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If you want to inject formaldahyde & heavy metals into your body, knock yourself out. I'll pass.
It's not just the substance that is important, it is the dose as well. The doses of formaldehyde and heavy metals that you get injected are way too low to cause health effects. This holds especially for formaldehyde, which your body produces naturally already, the added formaldehyde through a vaccine is so low that it does not change the levels of formaldehyde already naturally present.

This contrary to continued exposure to second-hand smoke, which has high enough concentrations to do damage, especially to your lungs. It does concern continued exposure in this case, so for example workers in a bar who would be exposed to high levels of second-hand smoke daily, or a non-smoker (especially kids) living in the house where people smoke inside. Standing next to a smoker sporadically will not have a measurable effect on your health.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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It depends on what your goal is. It's probably not going to help your long-term risk of heart disease, but for straight up weight loss, yeah.

The problem isn't so much the food pyramid as it is that few people actually stick to what it says. It's pretty easy to have an unbalanced diet and to blow past 2000 cal/day. The food pyramid is fine for overall health and you need a certain amount of carbs for various body functions. If you're lifting weights as part of your regimen, you'll probably notice that you have more energy and endurance when you've got a healthy amount of carbs in your diet.

Sure, you absolutely need some carbs in your diet...from veggies and fruit, not from Bread products (as the pyramid suggests). The food pyramid calls for close to 300 carbs per day, that's way too many.
 
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DrkSdBls

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Sure, you absolutely need some carbs in your diet...from veggies and fruit, not from Bread products (as the pyramid suggests). The food pyramid calls for close to 300 carbs per day, that's way too many.

Well, to be fair, it assumes an Active life-style..... their Mistake.

That's why it's pushed in Schools more then in everyday life.
 
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