The books of Hebrews and Revelation prove the unchangeableness of God's Holy Law.

squint said:

Spare me the persecution syndrome.
...

The killers are already in play. ...

s

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3 Angels Messages said:

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 01 - The Last Act In The Drama

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 01 - The Last Act In The Drama on Vimeo

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 02 - The Gospel & The Last Generation

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 02 - The Gospel & The Last Generation on Vimeo

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 03 - America In Prophecy

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 03 - America In Prophecy on Vimeo

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 04 - Redeeming The Time

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 04 - Redeeming The Time on Vimeo

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 05 - Great Work In A Little Time

Jeremiah Davis - The Sunday Law - 05 - Great Work In A Little Time on Vimeo

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• #1 - God, Who is alleged to make a third covenant with group #2.
• #2 - Saints, "those who had kept His law" of the first covenant. Ellen's 'vision' is more broad than merely the sabbath.
• #3 - the wicked, in concert with satan persecuting group #2.

• God has not promised to make a third covenant with those compliant with the first covenant, skipping over the second (new) covenant in the Blood of Christ; this "god" doesn't exist.
• There are no "saints" compliant with the first covenant; these people don't exist. Group #3 can't persecute another group that doesn't exist.

VictorC said:

Providing an external link for Adventism's 'Sunday law' hypothesis shows others an outside reliance for a doctrine you don't quite comprehend. Several others have already evaluated this doctrine, and have found it unBiblical.

The Bible doesn't contain any prophecy for a 'Sunday law'. When we search for where this comes from, we find that it relies on Ellen White. And here is Ellen's Sunday Law...

I saw the saints leaving the cities and villages, and associating in companies together, and living in the most solitary places. Angels provided them food and water; but the wicked were suffering with hunger and thirst. Then I saw the leading men of earth consulting together, and Satan and his angels were busy around them. I saw a writing, and copies of it scattered in different parts of the land, giving orders, that unless the saints should yield their peculiar faith, give up the Sabbath, and observe the first day, they were at liberty, after such a time, to put them to death. But in this time the saints were calm and composed, trusting in God, and leaning upon his promise, that a way of escape would be made for them. In some places, before the time for the writing to be executed, the wicked rushed upon the saints to slay them; but angels in the form of men of war fought for them. Satan wished to have the privilege of destroying the saints of the Most High; but Jesus bade his angels watch over them, for God would be honored by making a covenant with those who had kept his law in the sight of the heathen round about them; and Jesus would be honored by translating the faithful, waiting ones, who had so long expected him, without their seeing death. {1SG 201.1}​

What are the technical errors in this quote?
There are three entities found in this "vision". They are:

• #1 - God, Who is alleged to make a third covenant with group #2.
• #2 - Saints, "those who had kept His law" of the first covenant. Ellen's 'vision' is more broad than merely the sabbath.
• #3 - the wicked, in concert with satan persecuting group #2.

And the non-existing entities:

• God has not promised to make a third covenant with those compliant with the first covenant, skipping over the second (new) covenant in the Blood of Christ; this "god" doesn't exist.
• There are no "saints" compliant with the first covenant; these people don't exist. Group #3 can't persecute another group that doesn't exist.

It isn't possible for God to make a third covenant with a people that don't exist, for He has already concluded all the law's recipients disobedient as a condition to extend His mercy to us: "For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all" (Romans 11:32).

Ellen's "Sunday Law" is fictitious and reveals a error that is theological in nature, rather than a mistaken prophetic interpretation.

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pshun2404 said:

So true though Ellen was also a notorious false prophetess. Nothing ever tells us if Ellen gave back all the money and property the deluded followers gave into the SDA coffers when they were deceived. I think the church leadership kept it the first time claiming a mathematical error (which most modern false prophets do)...but thiat is speculation, however she is a false prophetess.

Paul

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VictorC said:

Providing an external link for Adventism's 'Sunday law' hypothesis shows others an outside reliance for a doctrine you don't quite comprehend. Several others have already evaluated this doctrine, and have found it unBiblical.

The Bible doesn't contain any prophecy for a 'Sunday law'. ...

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Apokalypsi Dekaoktw said:

Scripture, line upon line, and more when necessary...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7562877/

Let's re-evaluate 'their' conclusions from scripture.

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VictorC said:

...because of ... 1844 nonsense ...

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3 Angels Messages said:

Let us consider 1844 AD and where it comes from, as it is found in scriptural study of Daniel and Revelation, including the Gospels, etc.

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VictorC said:

We already know Isaiah 28:12-13 identifies the 'line upon line' approach as one used by those who would not hear the Word of the LORD. It is also commonly called 'sound-bite theology' assembled from disparate verses much as a ransom note comes from a stack of magazines.

However, you missed the point I made: Adventism's error is theological in nature, and does not come from a mistake in interpreting prophecy.

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3 Angels Messages said:

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15

Please re-read Isaiah 28 more closely:

"Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. Isaiah 28:9

For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: Isaiah 28:10

GOD HIMSELF, has said that "precept upon precept, precept upon precept" and "line upon line, line upon line" "here a little [and] there a little" is they way one learns the Good Doctrine of the LORD. Beginning with the simple and soon "weaned from the milk" even unto "meat" as sayeth Paul. [1 Corinthians 3:1-2]

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11

To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isaiah 28:12

This is the way GOD would lead in HIS Word, even the HOLY SPIRIT HIMSELF leads into all Truth from Light unto more glorious Light, but they refused to hear the Word spoken, they refused the way in which it was to be given. However, "the word of the LORD" was continually given to them "precept upon precept" and "line upon line". The "Word of the Lord" in "Precept upon Precept" and "line upon line" was ever Faithful to them, though they were not Faithful to God, nor His Word. Therefore, because they have refused and rejected knowledge and wisdom of GOD in "precept upon precept" and "line upon line" they are then fallen "backward" and "broken" and "snared" and "taken".

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. Hosea 4:6

But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Isaiah 28:13

"...for in Verse 12, two sources are cited in various scriptures, just as it should be, "line upon line" and "here a little" and "there a little". Please notice the quotation marks in your own cited source, for in one place it is said "Here is rest, give rest to the weary" and in another it is said, "Here is repose". This is how the scriptures work, yet they would not listen to the instruction of the Lord, so they then "may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive."

Notice also that last line, it is also cited elsewhere:

And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken. Isaiah 8:15

Now notice the context of that verse. Let us go "line upon line" and be instructed in the wisdom of the Lord.

Isaiah, himself is using the very principle, in teaching "line upon line", from quoting from those two sources and using them together, for "precept [is to be] upon precept".

But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble [in] judgment. Isaiah 28:7

For all tables are full of vomit [and] filthiness, [so that there is] no place [clean]. Isaiah 28:8

QUESTION:

Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Isaiah 28:9a...

ANSWER:

... [them that are] weaned from the milk, [and] drawn from the breasts. Isaiah 28:9b

For precept [must be] upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little: Isaiah 28:10

So, who are they that are "weened from the milk" and "drawn from the breasts"? They who read the word of the Lord by His instruction, being "precept upon precept" and "line upon line", even "here a little" and "there a little". Going from the basics and surface to the deep and more spiritual wisdom of the Love of GOD.

For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. Isaiah 28:11

And he has, even by converted gentiles, even in parables, and in dark sayings ["...I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world." Matthew 13:35;p; "I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old:" Psalms 78:2 and also Psalms 49:4; "To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; the words of the wise, and their dark sayings." Proverbs 1:6; compare also to Daniel 8:23 and the "little horn" Papal position who understands "dark sentences", for they claim to understand the parables and to even teach them...]

To whom he said, This [is] the rest [wherewith] ye may cause the weary to rest; and this [is] the refreshing: yet they would not hear. Isaiah 28:12 [see also Isaiah 30:15]

For GOD hath said in Exodus 16:23, "this...[is] the rest...", Exodus 23:12, 31:17, "refreshed", etc... [consider also Exodus 33:14; Deuteronomy 12:10, 25:19; Joshua 14:15, 23:1; 2 Samuel 7:1,11; 1 Chronicles 22:9; Isaiah 14:3; also Acts 3:19, etc.]

But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, [and] there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Isaiah 28:13

The preceding verse declares that GOD hath shown them [the rebellious] how to receive rest, and refreshing, yet "they would not hear", even though the "word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept", etc. They have no excuse for their not knowing, they have no excuse for their not being able to find rest, for it was given in the Word, "precept upon precept", "line upon line". There is no excuse for rebellion and refusal to hear it. When they refuse "precept upon precept" and "line upon line", they will "go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared and taken", because they have refused the very counsel of God, and have refused His rest.

Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which [is] in Jerusalem. Isaiah 28:14

Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Isaiah 28:15

It will be torn away, even as it was unto them in the 1st Advent.

Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner [stone], a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Isaiah 28:16

Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. Isaiah 28:17

Another hail is coming... and under it, all lies shall be swept away.

...

"II. What method they took, in pursuance of this design. They left no means untried to do them good, but taught them as children are taught, little children that are beginning to learn, that are taken from the breast to the book (v. 9), for among the Jews it was common for mothers to nurse their children till they were three years old, and almost ready to go to school. And it is good to begin betimes with children, to teach them, as they are capable, the good knowledge of the Lord, and to instruct them even when they are but newly weaned from the milk. The prophets taught them as children are taught; for, 1. They were constant and industrious in teaching them. They took great pains with them, and with great prudence, teaching them as they needed it and were able to bear it (v. 10): Precept upon precept. It must be so, or (as some read) it has been so.They have been taught, as children are taught to read, by precept upon precept, and taught to write by line upon line, a little here and a little there, a little of one thing and a little of another, that the variety of instructions might be pleasing and inviting,—a little at one time and a little at another, that they might not have their memories overcharged,—a little from one prophet and a little from another, that every one might be pleased with his friend and him whom he admired. Note, For our instruction in the things of God it is requisite that we have precept upon precept and line upon line, that one precept and line should be followed, and so enforced by another; the precept of justice must be upon the precept of piety, and the precept of charity upon that of justice. Nay, it is necessary that the same precept and the same line should be often repeated and inculcated upon us, that we may the better understand them and the more easily recollect them when we have occasion for them. Teachers should accommodate themselves to the capacity of the learners, give them what they most need and can best bear, and a little at a time, Deu. 6:6, 7. 2. They courted and persuaded them to learn, v. 12. God, by his prophets, said to them, "This way that we are directing you to, and directing you in, is the rest, the only rest, wherewith you may cause the weary to rest; and this will be the refreshing of your own souls, and will bring rest to your country from the wars and other calamities with which it has been long harassed.’’ Note, God by his word calls us to nothing but what is really for our advantage; for the service of God is the only true rest for those that are weary of the service of sin and there is no refreshing but under the easy yoke of the Lord Jesus." [Matthew Henry Commentary; Isaiah 28] - Blue Letter Bible - Commentaries - Matthew Henry - Matthew Henry Commentary on the Whole Bible

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VictorC said:

Now, how long did it take you to write this excuse for sound-bite theology? Take another look:

Isaiah 28
9 “Whom will he teach knowledge?
And whom will he make to understand the message?
Those just weaned from milk?
Those just drawn from the breasts?
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little.”
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue
He will speak to this people,
12 To whom He said, “This is the rest with which
You may cause the weary to rest,”
And, “This is the refreshing”;
Yet they would not hear.
13 But the word of the Lord was to them,
“Precept upon precept, precept upon precept,
Line upon line, line upon line,
Here a little, there a little,”
That they might go and fall backward, and be broken
And snared and caught.

There are two subjects depicted in this passage: He Who teaches, and they who would not hear. It makes a transition from v.9 to v.10, again at v.11, at v.12, and concludes with the His conclusion that those using the mounting of precepts, lines, and little disparate collections in v.11 are those who fall backward, are broken, snared, and caught.

This is hardly a defense.
It only raised a flag for others to see that you're more interested in assembling a ransom note than you are determining what the inspired Author behind Scripture has to say to us. Drawing on Matthew Henry's commentary to deflect attention from Scripture is a poor move to make, as well.

This is twice now that my point has not been addressed by you.

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3 Angels Messages said:

Re-read what was given yet again, for it is clearly the other way round -

http://www.christianforums.com/t7713704-11/#post62284639

...even so much so that Matthew Henry [and many others] even agrees with the scriptures I presented, in the manner in which they were presented, and he [Matthew Henry] wrote a whole commentary on the Bible, but even then I do not place my trust in men, but just to show the actual evidence and hiustorical understanding... Even as others who studied their Bibles have, and even wrote other commentaries...

Consider the many...

Isaiah 28:13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there--so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.

"Isaiah 28:10 For - They must be taught like little children, because of their great dullness. Line - One line of the book after another, as children are taught to read." - Wesly's Commentary [E-Sword]

"12. Rather, "He (Jehovah) who hath said to them."

this . . . the rest--Reference may be primarily to "rest" from national warlike preparations, the Jews being at the time "weary" through various preceding calamities, as the Syro-Israelite invasion ( Isaiah 7:8 ; compare Isaiah 30:15 , 22:8 , 39:2 , 36:1 , 2 Kings 18:8 ). But spiritually, the "rest" meant is that to be found in obeying those very "precepts" of God ( Isaiah 28:10 ) which they jeered at (compare Jeremiah 6:16 , Matthew 11:29 ).

13. But--rather, "Therefore," namely, because "they would not hear" ( Isaiah 28:12 ).

that they might go--the designed result to those who, from a defect of the will, so far from profiting by God's mode of instructing, "precept upon precept," &c., made it into a stumbling-block ( Hosea 6:5 , 8:12 , Matthew 13:14 ).

go, and fall--image appropriately from "drunkards" ( Isaiah 28:7 , which they were) who in trying to "go forward fall backward."" - [Jamieson, Fausset and Brown's Commentary] - Isaiah 28 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

"2. (Isaiah 28:11-13) Isaiah warns of the consequences of rejecting the simple message of the LORD.

For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, to whom He said, “This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest,” and, “This is the refreshing”; yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little,” That they might go and fall backward, and be broken and snared and caught.

a. With stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people: If the simple, straightforward message is rejected, God will find another way to communicate to the hard-hearted. He will send unusual messengers to bring the word.

b. The message of rest and deliverance (this is the rest . . . this is refreshing) will be rejected (they would not hear). But it wasn’t the fault of the word of the LORD - the word of the LORD was to them, “Precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.”

i. This is the blessed way to present God’s word: precept upon precept, line upon line. Isaiah takes the taunt of the drunkards and receives it as a compliment. God’s messengers are to present all of God’s word (without skipping a line), and to present it simply.

ii. This also implies that we can’t receive all aspects of God’s message at once. “It is an excellent thing that the gospel is taught us by degrees. It is not forced home upon men’s minds all at once, but it comes thus, ‘Precept upon precept, line upon line, here a little and there a little.’ God does not flash the everlasting daylight on weak eyes in one blaze of glory, but there is at first a dim dawn, and the soft incoming of a tender light for tender eyes, and so by degrees we see.” (Spurgeon)

c. In fact, the result of the faithful presentation of the word of the LORD for those who reject isn’t good for them: That they might go and fall backward and be broken and snared and caught." - [David Guzik's Commentary on the Bible] - Isaiah 28:1 - David Guzik's Commentary on the Bible - Commentaries - StudyLight.org

etc...

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VictorC said:

I already have a good idea of how your mantra goes - something like this:

Fetch a word from the post
word oh add a word
precept upon strawman, word upon word
For the word of the post was to them
lines upon lines upon their forehead
Until they fell backward, they have broken the conversation,
and snared and were caught never responding.

From sound-bite theology we have your complete inability to respond.
Yours is a real life example of the mentality Isaiah 28 described!
I feel....
...vindicated.
This is three times now that my point has not been addressed by you.

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3 Angels Messages said:

Clear cut evidence that cannot be gainsayed was provided, and others continue to reject, even as they which rejected "precept upon precept" and "line upon line" then...

http://www.christianforums.com/t7713704-11/#post62284639

http://www.christianforums.com/t7713704-12/#post62284820

I offer you, yet again, the chance at real study and dialogue in the scriptures, especially in Daniel and in Revelation etc upon the matter of 1844 AD.

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VictorC said:

I see links. I don't tend to follow links, especially when you continue to demonstrate that you can't answer a post.
This is four times now that my point has not been addressed by you.

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GladiatorforGod said:

The key texts listed below, from the NT, prove beyond a shadow of doubt that God's Holy Law, the 10 Commandments, are still binding on all human beings, for all time. Note, the highlighted texts.

Hebrews 8:1-5

"1Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
2A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

(Comment: This text proves that the earthly sanctuary was modeled after the heavenly sanctuary. Therefore, we can conclude that the earthly Ark of the Covenant contained the two tablets of the 10 Commandments, identical to the heavenly originals.)


(Comment: Proof positive that John saw the Ark of the Covenant in the Heavenly Sanctuary in the NT period.)

Revelation 15:5

"But after these things, I looked, and the Temple of the Tabernacle of the Testimony was opened in Heaven."

(Comment: John's second view of the Ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy Place.)

Bible Dictionary Definition of the above text:

the tabernacle, the great glory of which was that it contained "the testimony", i.e., the "two tables" (Ex. 38:21). The ark in which these tables were deposited was called the "ark of the testimony" (40:3), and also simply the "testimony" (27:21; 30:6). (Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary)

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Revelation 11:1 And was given to me a reed like-as rod saying "rouse/rise up! and measure! the Sanctuary/naon <3485> of the God and the altar and those worshipping in it

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:age 12:: of this subject, but that we may be edified by understanding the substance from an examination of the shadow--as God designed in arranging it.

squint said:

He's here to sell the SDA mindset and is very much not interested in thinking he might have been wrongly programmed and finding out so by applying any forms of reasoning scriptural critique or submitting his understandings to the closest scrutiny.

Typical action in their crowd.

s

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VictorC said:

Many Adventists adhere to what Ellen White instructed them to do.
And what is Ellen's attitude to the Bible?

We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years. And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God. {MR760 19.2}​

Now look at the key sentence in this quote above: "And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar of the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake." The problem is that this (non)response to Elder Ballenger's critique of the Sanctuary Doctrine wasn't able to demonstrate that the pillar Adventism relies on was supported by the Holy Spirit - so this is a qualifier presented in a sentence that has no meaning. It is merely an extra-Biblical qualifier added without support.

Here is that same sentence minus Ellen's unsupportable qualifier:

And while the Scriptures are God's Word, and are to be respected, the application of them is a great mistake.

We see hodge-podge models of eschatology that aren't compatible with the theological ramifications they force onto the Gospel, and Ellen taught her followers to ignore critiques of them.

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