Arizona Republicans propose bill that prevents Atheists from graduating High School

Metal Minister said:

I haven't seen anyone credible pick this story up yet. I'll reserve my judgement until its confirmed. So far, only blogs have picked it up, and aside from editorializing have exactly the same info...

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Is this credible enough for you:

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dies-l said:

Is this credible enough for you:

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Frankly I'm amazed the Arizona state legislature actually allows their proposals go on the internet to sites outside of the state borders. Who knows? The FEDRUL GUBERMENT might be looking at it and it ain't ought nun of thar biznez!

Just when I think I've heard all the stupid...

Mandatory oaths will surely solve all of the problems in Arizona. Don't you all see it? Don't you?

seashale76 said:

Just when I think I've heard all the stupid...

Mandatory oaths will surely solve all of the problems in Arizona. Don't you all see it? Don't you?

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Bread, circuses, etc

Desk trauma said:

Bread, circuses, etc

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Mmm bread! And OOOO! Horsies!

dies-l said:

Is this credible enough for you:

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...something seems off....besides the obvious I mean...perhaps I'm too cynical...

It is true, but it has little to do with being an atheist, apart from the "under God" part, which will never stand up to a legal challenge. The issue that it tries to address is a legitimate one, but this is not the way to do it, IMO.

Svt4Him said:

It is true, but it has little to do with being an atheist, apart from the "under God" part, which will never stand up to a legal challenge. The issue that it tries to address is a legitimate one, but this is not the way to do it, IMO.

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What issue is that?

As I said in the other thread, if the last few words is what really has your knickers in a bunch, maybe you should reconsider your priorities. If they dropped that last part, would you suddenly not have a problem with it? I would, it's an oath to graduate highschool.

Rion said:

As I said in the other thread, if the last few words is what really has your knickers in a bunch, maybe you should reconsider your priorities. If they dropped that last part, would you suddenly not have a problem with it? I would, it's an oath to graduate highschool.

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With that point in mind, then you would have no problem with the bill requiring students to say, 'So help me Allah' in order to graduate?


Btodd

Btodd said:

With that point in mind, then you would have no problem with the bill requiring students to say, 'So help me Allah' in order to graduate?


Btodd

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...Yep, I just said I'm against having kids swear oaths in general, but "changing" God to Allah would totally make it cool for me.

Ah, I guess I took your statement wrong. On second reading, you appear to be saying that there should be no oath required to graduate high school, and if it's the part about believing in God that is the deal-breaker, then the issue is even larger than that. If I understand your point now, then I agree. There should be no oath whatsoever, regardless of religion.


Btodd

Yep, that's what I was saying.

Anyone else care to comment on the inherent stupidity in withholding a student's diploma until they swear that they take an oath freely?

Merope said:

If I'm not mistaken this is virtually identical to the oath that the Vice-President takes just before the President is sworn in. A couple obvious problems though:

It is not really the duty of students and private citizens to support and defend the Constitution, that duty really falls to our elected officials, soldiers and officers of the law.

Then there is the problem that there doesn't appear to be any exemptions. What about foreign students who are here legally and enrolled in class? Why should they be required to swear allegiance to OUR Constitution?

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It is the duty of all citizens to defend the Constitution.

What they should do is mandate the oath of allegiance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_States)

I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God.

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Of course, the last line is under question, if they can't get the diploma if they don't swear, then is it really given with reservation or puprose of evasion? This could be a problem for those becoming citizens too.

I wonder why no one has ever complained since the citizenship oath has those "terrible words" at the end.

I believe all oaths the final four words can be ommited on the federal level, and in the pledge.

I have no problem asking students to swear country allegiance, and as with the federal goverment the swearing to god should be optional.
Amazing, it is outrageous to mandate oath of citizenship, but perfectly fine to require forced volunteerism(slavery) as a requirement of graduation.

Billnew said:

It is the duty of all citizens to defend the Constitution.

What they should do is mandate the oath of allegiance:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oath_of_Allegiance_(United_States)


Of course, the last line is under question, if they can't get the diploma if they don't swear, then is it really given with reservation or puprose of evasion? This could be a problem for those becoming citizens too.

I wonder why no one has ever complained since the citizenship oath has those "terrible words" at the end.

I believe all oaths the final four words can be ommited on the federal level, and in the pledge.

I have no problem asking students to swear country allegiance, and as with the federal goverment the swearing to god should be optional.
Amazing, it is outrageous to mandate oath of citizenship, but perfectly fine to require forced volunteerism(slavery) as a requirement of graduation.

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Your "solution" is worse than the original proposal. You are proposing stripping foreign-born students of their citizenship in their native countries ("that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen") and giving them nothing in return. A local high school principal, a local school board, or even a state legislator cannot grant US citizenship to the students. Without any guarantee of rights and no access to the consulate of their native land, what's to stop the government from simply "disappearing" them? Without trial, without charges, and without recourse or appeal?

Chajara said:

Anyone else care to comment on the inherent stupidity in withholding a student's diploma until they swear that they take an oath freely?

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Fealty with love.

TLK Valentine said:

Basically, you can't graduate unless you swear a loyalty oath to God

Arizona Republicans Propose Bill That Would Not Allow Atheists To Graduate High School

Here's the part that really illustrates Republican responsibility to their constituents:



Thoughts?

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Arizona Republicans are disappointed that were no longer last in education, and have decided to legislate us down a couple places so we can at least be #1 at something - the worst schools in the country.

It's not the duty of schoolchildren to defend anything.

They are not accepting a job with the government.

They are not swearing an oath of office.

The idea that belief in God is something that is required to obtain a high school education is ridiculous. Does it come with classes that teach about God so these children have a better chance of graduating? If so, which God? Congress will make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

If you're a Christian, do you want an Islamic schoolteacher teaching your child about God, or would you prefer that your child learn about God from attending Sunday school at your church?