Sabbath: What Do You Personally Do and How Do You Observe It?

ananda · Jan 9, 2013

Easy G (G²);62140801 said:
... for although Messianic services (i.e. Torah Readings, Prayers/Liturgy, Fellowship, etc.) are wonderful, it was interesting to consider the ways that Sabbath itself did not seem to mandate at any point for others to meet on Saturday for a Corporate gathering ... Leviticus 23:2-4/ Leviticus 23 There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord

How do you reconcile your statement with this verse?

The issue of travel was something that really stood out to me - for as many times as I've heard others be condemned for not making it to either synagouge or service on Saturday, the strict/literal intepretation of the Law would seem to required that believers choose to STAY HOME and not go outside at all. I'm aware that Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the Brit Chadashah . But at the most literal, the Law says to "stay at home."..if I understand it correctly. That'd mean no travelling to one's local fellowship if one sought to keep this part of the law, as you could not travel to your local ecclesia/gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home.

I always took the "no traveling" commandment as found in Ex. 16:29 as being a commandment specific to that quail & manna event, and not so relevant today.

Obviously, for one to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly together, one must travel some distance. Secondly, we have the example of Messiah and His apostles going through the field picking grain on the Sabbath, so He must have traveled some distance out of the house.

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

Easy G (G²);62144960 said:
Walking is a blessing...

Walking is indeed a blessing! Especially for those of us who find it close to impossible to do even for short distances. So, when it comes to walking for a righteous purpose, being able to perform that purpose by another means must be looked upon not as breaking a law but as a good way of continuing the mitzveh. To use the alternate means just because it is more convenient, I would agree is not a good thing, when it's the only way possible though, I would not say one should remain home.

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
How do you reconcile your statement with this verse?
.

I think I shared that earlier - but in the event it was missed, studying it has not led me to think it is necessarily about meeting on Saturday for meetings in large groups. It can be seen as such - but in many ways, I can see merit in the view of "sacred assembly" being consistent with the concept of staying home with the family you live with.

In the event I may not have expressed it the best, here is one thing I thought to be noteworthy in explanation of what sacred assembly was about.

As one individual noted:

An interesting study is to look up the word "Sabbath" in a concordance, find all the Old Testament references and then read those passages to see how this day was kept "holy." The conclusion will be that rest from labor is what made the Sabbath sacred time, not attendance at a worship service. Most Israelites lived too far from the tabernacle to attend a worship service every Sabbath and there is no evidence in the Old Testament that they did. The law did not allow them to assemble anywhere else for worship. ........
The Sabbath was kept at home, by resting. ...

......Essentially, there is no mention in Old Testament passages that attending a worship service on the Sabbath is a way of keeping this day holy. To repeat, the way the Sabbath was sanctified, made holy or set apart as sacred was through physical rest from labor. All the Old Testament references to Sabbath observance in Israel speak to this point. There is no Old Testament theology of weekly Sabbath holiness that centers around attendance at "holy convocations."
It would be strange, then, to have one phrase in Leviticus 23:3 refer to a worship service, and then claim that this was just as important as resting as a way to keep the Sabbath. It would be a mistake to assume such a teaching from a single and somewhat vague phrase in one verse when the entire witness of the Old Testament does not mention worship service attendance in conjunction with the Sabbath.

........The fact is, so far as we know from Scripture or Jewish history, there was no national system of Sabbath-day worship sites or places of communal instruction throughout Israels history in the Promised Land up to the captivity of Judah in the 530s B.C. and the return of a remnant to Judea 70 years later. There were no synagogues before the exile; there were no local meeting places in Israel before the exile, because there was no command for weekly meetings.

The synagogue system allowed Jews to meet together in local towns and villages for prayer, the reading of the Holy Scriptures and for fellowship. The synagogue became a miniature sanctuary to replace the loss of the Jerusalem Temple. We do not know when the synagogue system originated. Neither the Old or New Testaments provide any information about this development. It is generally believed that the synagogue system developed when worship at the Temple in Jerusalem became impossible and when Jews were scattered throughout the nations.

But the Jews added the synagogue worship system, not based on biblical command, but on need due to the loss of the Temple and the scattering of the people far away from the Promised Land. To repeat, nowhere in the Old Testament will you find a command to have local worship sites. There wasnt anything necessarily wrong with the Jews setting up synagogues. They became an important center both of fellowship for Jews and instruction in their faith. The New Testament does not condemn the practice; it is taken for granted. But it is nowhere commanded.

Regarding the day on which Jews had their worship service, its natural that it should occur on the Sabbath. After all, the people worked the other six days and the Sabbath was a convenient time for them to meet. But, to repeat, there is no biblical command to set up local worship sites and to make the weekly Sabbath "holy convocations." The Old Testament does not indicate that the Sabbath is kept as holy through a meeting. Rather, it was kept as holy through rest.

Leviticus 23:3 directly: "There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; wherever you live, it is a Sabbath to the Lord." Notice that the verse emphasizes rest. It says, "The seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly. It is a Sabbath of the Lord, you are not to do any work on this day."

Since the passage is about resting and not working, it seems that the expression "day of sacred assembly" is a parallel to "Sabbath to the Lord" and refers not so much to official corporate worship on the Sabbath but to the day itself as being a "sacred assembly." The phrase "day of sacred assembly" can be understood as a "sacred day of celebration" or a "sacred occasion," as well as a "sacred assembly" or convocation. The weekly Sabbath, as well as the annual festivals, were occasions to worship and praise God for the abundance of his physical blessings and for saving Israel from bondage in Egypt. But this worship and praise could be given to God in the Israelites participation in rest itself (thus experiencing the blessings of Yahweh through rest), as well as in contemplation and conversation at home.

That is to say, by resting from their labor and self-interests on the weekly Sabbath, the Israelites were presenting themselves before God through rest. Resting was a way of being in the presence of God and fulfilling his sacred purpose.

....for most Israelites, the Sabbath was a day to rest at home, not a day to travel long distances and attend a worship service. The annual harvest festivals were the time for Israelites to enjoy communal worship and fellowship. Here is what the Expositors Bible Commentary (volume 2, page 623) says about Leviticus 23:3: "There is an emphasis here that the Israelite rested at home. There were special offerings given in the tabernacle (e.g., a double burnt offering), but the ordinary Israelite and his whole family rested. Presumably here was an opportunity for family worship and instruction in the law of God, but this is not specifically enjoined. What a boon a weekly rest must have been to the ancient laborer and farmer in his weary round of toil!"

Sacred Assembly seems to be something that can be either with a group gathering - or at home studying the Scriptures/praying, seeing how central the Family Unit was and how Jewish culture emphasized the family strongly as a means of learning about the Lord/studying His Ways - reciting who He is

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
How do you reconcile your statement with this verse?

I always took the "no traveling" commandment as found in Ex. 16:29 as being a commandment specific to that quail & manna event, and not so relevant today.

Obviously, for one to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly together, one must travel some distance. Secondly, we have the example of Messiah and His apostles going through the field picking grain on the Sabbath, so He must have traveled some distance out of the house.

Absolutely. Using the other understanding, that is, if it's too far to travel you must stay home just doesn't compute. Is everyone expected to live within the specified distance? Are they the only ones who are allowed to benefit from a group setting? What of Paul's admonition to not forsake the gathering together of believers?
And, just to stop the ball from rolling: I would imagine that back in the day it was just as difficult as it is today to get one's own gathering of the flock together. I've made numerous attempts and it just doesn't happen. So, I must travel to be among the flock.

ananda · Jan 9, 2013

Easy G (G²);62141030 said:
Lev. 23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."Deuteronomy 5:13-15 Deuteronomy 5 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do. 15 Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day. ... Even with work - many of the activities that one groups says are relaxing for them and that they don't consider work (i.e. mowing the lawn, decorating the house, exercise, etc.), others would say are a matter of "hard work" that should not be done - and so there does not seem to be anything conclusive on how others define work.

I define "work" according to the context of Deu 5:15. YHWH was obviously reminding His people to remember all the work that they did in Egypt (Deu 5:15). If they did not engage in this work for the Egyptians, they did not eat, or they died. This tells me that the "work" that YHWH is prohibiting is 1. that which is forced or 2. that is required for one to physically live.

Therefore, going to work at my customary place of employment for a salary would thus be considered "work". Mowing the lawn, or decorating the house, would be (for me) neither forced nor required for me to live, and they would be enjoyable and relaxing for me, therefore I do not consider these activities to be "work".

If, however, on another Sabbath day, I was sick and was not looking forward to mowing the lawn or decorating the house, then these activities would then be considered "work" for me, as they would be forced and not enjoyable or relaxing.

That is my interpretation of what Messiah meant when He said "Sabbath was made for man" - we need to interpret it individually for our individual circumstances.

ananda · Jan 9, 2013

Easy G (G²);62145742 said:
I think I shared that earlier - but in the event it was missed, studying it has not led me to think it is necessarily about meeting on Saturday for meetings in large groups. It can be seen as such - but in many ways, I can see merit in the view of "sacred assembly" being consistent with the concept of staying home with the family you live with....Sacred Assembly seems to be something that can be either with a group gathering - or at home studying the Scriptures/praying, seeing how central the Family Unit was and how Jewish culture emphasized the family strongly as a means of learning about the Lord/studying His Ways - reciting who He is

yedida said:
Absolutely. Using the other understanding, that is, if it's too far to travel you must stay home just doesn't compute. Is everyone expected to live within the specified distance? Are they the only ones who are allowed to benefit from a group setting? What of Paul's admonition to not forsake the gathering together of believers?
And, just to stop the ball from rolling: I would imagine that back in the day it was just as difficult as it is today to get one's own gathering of the flock together. I've made numerous attempts and it just doesn't happen. So, I must travel to be among the flock.

I see no problem with worshiping with your family at home if one desires to do that to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly on Sabbath, but I also see no problem with traveling to worship and remember YHWH with others. By Messiah's own example, He traveled to synagogue on Sabbath.

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
I see no problem with worshiping with your family at home if one desires to do that to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly on Sabbath, but I also see no problem with traveling to worship and remember YHWH with others. By Messiah's own example, He traveled to synagogue on Sabbath.

I think it goes beyond the "what is good in one's own eyes" and comes down to simple common sense.

xDenax · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
I define "work" according to the context of Deu 5:15. YHWH was obviously reminding His people to remember all the work that they did in Egypt (Deu 5:15). If they did not engage in this work for the Egyptians, they did not eat, or they died. This tells me that the "work" that YHWH is prohibiting is 1. that which is forced or 2. that is required for one to physically live.

Therefore, going to work at my customary place of employment for a salary would thus be considered "work". Mowing the lawn, or decorating the house, would be (for me) neither forced nor required for me to live, and they would be enjoyable and relaxing for me, therefore I do not consider these activities to be "work".

If, however, on another Sabbath day, I was sick and was not looking forward to mowing the lawn or decorating the house, then these activities would then be considered "work" for me, as they would be forced and not enjoyable or relaxing.

That is my interpretation of what Messiah meant when He said "Sabbath was made for man" - we need to interpret it individually for our individual circumstances.

What has made you come to this conclusion?

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
I always took the "no traveling" commandment as found in Ex. 16:29 as being a commandment specific to that quail & manna event, and not so relevant today.
.

That is one interpretation I've come across before - although I don't rule out the other view that says the Lord was basically placing more emphasis on the part of "staying at home" with the desire to not repeat himself when he spoke again on the Sabbath - the Quail/Manna serving as a background/backdrop of the event rather than the cause for saying "stay home" in that one instance alone. ..as it could've been anything else differently in the future besides food where the Israelite were busy trying to get more for themselves rather than enjoying what they had with their family/being content...and not tiring themselves out/overworking to get more of something.

Proverbs 25:16
If you find honey, eat just enough— too much of it, and you will vomit.
Proverbs 25:15-17

Obviously, for one to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly together, one must travel some distance.

Indeed - unless, of course, one is choosing to stay at home with their own family for personal enjoyment of what the Lord gave.

Secondly, we have the example of Messiah and His apostles going through the field picking grain on the Sabbath, so He must have traveled some distance out of the house.

Indeed - and Yeshua is a wonderful example. Of course, although he did things such as staying in the homes of family/friends (and perhaps even having a home of his own at some point), he did often travel by foot and stayed in places outdoors. Thus, it could be the case that he could've travelled near the wheatfield the day before and set up camp..in order to be near it the next day for eating.

As it concerns Yeshua, he was already radical on a host of things - including Sabbath (more shared here in #2 #3 79 #106 ). Yeshua, who fulfilled all of the Law, often made clear that any interpretation of keeping Shabbat which resulted in life being neglected was not truly a representation of the heart of it. ( Matthew 12:11-13 / Matthew 12 , Mark 3:3-5 / Mark 3 , Luke 6:8-10 / Luke 6, Luke 14:1-3 (/ Luke 14 , Luke 13:10-17, etc ). He actually got livid with many when it came to saying that survival itself was not important on the Sabbath--with others literally in need of physical help and yet getting nothing...or being condemned for seeking it out when in dire situations.

As the Word states:

Matthew 12 /Matthew 12:7

Lord of the Sabbath

1At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. 2When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."

3He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 7 If you had known what these words mean, ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice,’[a] you would not have condemned the innocent. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

9 Going on from that place, he went into their synagogue, 10 and a man with a shriveled hand was there. Looking for a reason to bring charges against Jesus, they asked him, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?”

11 He said to them, “If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? 12 How much more valuable is a person than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.”

13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” So he stretched it out and it was completely restored, just as sound as the other. 14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

Mark 2:22-24

As seen in Matthew 12:1-6 and Mark 2:22-24, Jesus was accused of violating the Sabbath by eating grain from the fields..and he then brought up the situation of David. Concerning David’s situation, Leviticus 24:5 makes clear that only cohanim were allowed to eat the bread of the Presence set aside for display before the ark in the House of God (tabernacle). 1 Samuel 21:5 recounts how King David and the priest Achimelekh violated this mitzvah of the WRITTEN Torah---which the P'rushim would accept as more authoritative than a rule in the Oral Torah. Jesus made clear that to do good/save life is God’s greater law (Leviticus 19:18, Matthew 12:1-8, Luke 6:1-5, Matthew 12:9-14, Luke 13:10-17, Luke 14:1-6, etc). As both Paul and Jesus have often noted, the Lord is our Sabbath--and in Christ, the interpretation of the Sabbath is not so much about the Day as it is the INTENT.

In many ways, if walking had been an issue, it would have been included in their with the issue of eating grain. Yeshua mercifully argued that:

His disciples and David's disregard of the law was justified because His and David's men were hungry

That common sense prevailed over the law and dictated to save the life of a sheep that fell into a ditch on the Sabbath, or to lead them to water when they thirsted

He truthfully argued that the healing of an afflicted human being better than a sheep was more important than a blind obedience to the law about a holy day.

According to the law, Jesus disciples should have been stoned to death, for plucking and rubbing corn on the Sabbath, yet the Lord did not condemn them, but even defended them against the enforcement of the law by the "righteousness police"--the Pharisees. Not just that, but s seemed to purposely provoke these worshippers of the law. Why? As he noted:

"But if you had known what this means, I will have mercy and not sacrifice, you would not have condemned the guiltless."

The text explictly says that Yeshua noted He was guitless alongside his Disciples, just as David was in eating the showbread/having the greater law of Love upheld.

To be technical, Jesus and his disciples weren't even technically stealing in the first place when they ate grain. Leviticus 19:9-10 and Deuteronomy 23:25 say that farmers were to leave the edges of their fields unharvested so that some of their crops could be picked by travelers and by the poor. Just as walking on a sidewalk is not trespassing on private property, picking heads of grain at the edge of a field was not stealing. Moreover, God's law said that crops could not be harvested on the Sabbath (Exodus 34:21) and this law prevented the farmers from becoming greedy and ignoring God on the Sabbath. It also protected them and laborers from being overworked.

With Jewish legal tradition, there were 39 categories of activities forbidden on the Sabbath--and harvesting was one of them. The teachers of the law even went so far as to describe different methods of harvesting. One method was to rub the heads of grain betweent he hands, as the disciples were doing.

The Pharisees interpreted the action of Jesus and his disciples as harvesting...and so they judged Yeshua as a "law-breaker"...but Jesus and his disciples clearly were not harvesting the grain for personal gain. They were simply looking for something to eat----and for those who are starving/hungry, it was NEVER the case that mercy/love and meeting needs were suspended on the sabbath. It's why the Lord took such issue with the Pharisees when he chose to heal/fix others on the Sabbath and saw where the religious leaders would take issue...yet not have any problem with the needs of their animals being taken care of. Hospitals/saving lives is not something forbidden on the Sabbath--just as it was with David.

With Christ, who fulfilled all of the Law, often he made clear that any interpretation of keeping Shabbat which resulted in life being neglected was not truly a representation of the heart of it. ( Matthew 12:11-13 / Matthew 12 , Mark 3:3-5 / Mark 3 , Luke 6:8-10 / Luke 6, Luke 14:1-3 (/ Luke 14 , Luke 13:10-17, etc ). He actually got livid with many when it came to saying that survival itself was not important on the Sabbath--with others literally in need of physical help and yet getting nothing...or being condemned for seeking it out when in dire situations. Something else to consider is what Christ noted about the priests, in light of Exodus 23:30 where it said "Seven days shall the son that is priest in his stead put them on, even he who cometh into the tent of meeting to minister in the holy place"....and later in Exodus 29:35-37 " thus shalt thou do unto Aaron, and to his sons, according to all that I have commanded thee; seven days shalt thou consecrate them ...And every day shalt thou offer the bullock of sin-offering, beside the other offerings of atonement; and thou shalt do the purification upon the altar when thou makest atonement for it; and thou shalt anoint it, to sanctify ...Seven days thou shalt make atonement for the altar, and sanctify it; thus shall the altar be most holy; whatsoever toucheth the altar shall be holy."

The Levites were working for seven days...and if they were working for seven days, and commanded to do so by God, then the commandment to observe the Sabbath could not apply to them....for what they were doing was necessary to be done on the SABBATH. If a person is engaged in necessary work, in rotation, etc. on the seventh , that is what makes a difference. The command to cease from your labor on the sabbath day is not separated from the reality of the human condition. There are necessary functions that must be performed in order for people to live. As our Messiah said, “The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath"...and it is sin to make an idol out of the sabbath day, putting the sabbath day before all else, including helping people by doing necessary work...and as the priests were doing necessary work, it was not considered violation of the Sabbath.

Jesus also compared the Sabbath to the sacrificial laws (Matt. 12:5). The priests were allowed to work on the Sabbath because the requirement to sacrifice animals was more important than the requirement to rest on the Sabbath. The ritual law was more important than the Sabbath law. This again shows that there is nothing intrinsically wrong about working on the Sabbath. It was permitted for priests. It is not a universal law required for all peoples at all times. Rather, the Sabbath was a ritual law, specifying when certain kinds of work could or could not be done. Jesus also compared the Sabbath to circumcision (John 7:22). Again, ritual work was allowed (even required) on the Sabbath, because the ritual law was more important than the requirement to rest on the seventh day. The ritual law was more important than the Sabbath.

netzarim said:
I see no problem with worshiping with your family at home if one desires to do that to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly on Sabbath, but I also see no problem with traveling to worship and remember YHWH with others. By Messiah's own example, He traveled to synagogue on Sabbath.

More than agree - and it is because of that fact that I don't condemn others who choose to stay at home on Sabbath. The same goes for those who do walk - if they choose to do so, be it walking literally or "walking" in the sense of travelling by other means...

ananda · Jan 9, 2013

xDenax said:
What has made you come to this conclusion?

My personal study and conviction

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
I define "work" according to the context of Deu 5:15. YHWH was obviously reminding His people to remember all the work that they did in Egypt (Deu 5:15). If they did not engage in this work for the Egyptians, they did not eat, or they died. This tells me that the "work" that YHWH is prohibiting is 1. that which is forced or 2. that is required for one to physically live.

Therefore, going to work at my customary place of employment for a salary would thus be considered "work". Mowing the lawn, or decorating the house, would be (for me) neither forced nor required for me to live, and they would be enjoyable and relaxing for me, therefore I do not consider these activities to be "work".

If, however, on another Sabbath day, I was sick and was not looking forward to mowing the lawn or decorating the house, then these activities would then be considered "work" for me, as they would be forced and not enjoyable or relaxing.

I've been processing that for awhile and thinking that the "work" the Lord was speaking of was in specific regards to what they did when they were in bondage - and the mindset one had when they did so (as that type of work could often lead to things like grumbling, complaining and having bad attitudes due to the nature of where they were at....just as others can get into a funk when they have to slave away all day in the office working on papers - and then come home to their families and yell at them/take out their anger).

Going to scripture:

Numbers 15

The Sabbath-Breaker Put to Death

32 While the Israelites were in the desert, a man was found gathering wood on the Sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and the whole assembly, 34 and they kept him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, The man must die. The whole assembly must stone him outside the camp. 36 So the assembly took him outside the camp and stoned him to death, as the Lord commanded Moses.

With the man who was stoned in Numbers 15 for picking up sticks, I think it was his mindset more than anything else since picking up sticks are things even children do for play - and for others today, gardening or yard work requires doing so. But if doing so in order to get ahead on work for the following week (i.e. " I gotta get bundles of sticks TODAY so I can get ahead of the curve..."), it's no a matter of rest. You're still in work mode.

Adding to that the reality of what can happen when one does things in the spirit of a workaholic - where you love your work more than your own family - and that's an issue. I wonder how long the man who was stonned was outside picking up sticks - for if he was doing so for an extended period of time and his family/children needed him at home for fellowship (and play time/rest), he would have been harming them greatly for the sake of work. Happens all the time in our own nation where people sacrifice their families on the altar of work and think their families are expendable - or that it'll work out.

And many times, with families, it's not even a matter of HAVING to work on Sabbath in many cases as much as it's a manner of not knowing how to manage your time throughout the week. If the character of the man picking up sticks was one where he didn't choose to work throughout the week - being lazy and waiting till the last minute - it'd be even more of an issue that he decided on the Day of Rest to then get to work since it'd be condoning laziness and not taking rest seriously.

That is my interpretation of what Messiah meant when He said "Sabbath was made for man" - we need to interpret it individually for our individual circumstances.

That's real. Thanks again for sharing

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

xDenax said:
Ha, me too! And I like to walk.

Biking is always a fun thing to do. But I'm still glad for the blessings of cars...

Castaway57 · Jan 9, 2013

yedida said:
Walking is indeed a blessing! Especially for those of us who find it close to impossible to do even for short distances. So, when it comes to walking for a righteous purpose, being able to perform that purpose by another means must be looked upon not as breaking a law but as a good way of continuing the mitzveh. To use the alternate means just because it is more convenient, I would agree is not a good thing, when it's the only way possible though, I would not say one should remain home.

Alright! Now you got me! Since I am not a MJ, I will have to ask "foolish" questions from time to time. What is "mitzveh?" What did you mean by "continuing the mitzveh?"

As some of you might know; Adventists do keep the Seventh-day Sabbath, so I am watching this topic with interest.

I think if I had to sum it up very briefly; I would say that I understand the sabbath rest to be a rest in Christ. Or Rest in G-ds love type of thing, and this can be done in many ways; as we see by the many and varied traditions in different parts of the globe. What is un-thinkable in one country, may be just fine in another.

With Adventists; their pastors work harder on the Sabbath than any other dayof the week; if they are a good one.

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

There are some households that, except for the one, are athiest and/or not Messianic. For that person, travelling to fellowship and for edification and elucidation is a must.

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

Castaway57 said:
Alright! Now you got me! Since I am not a MJ, I will have to ask "foolish" questions from time to time. What is "mitzveh?" What did you mean by "continuing the mitzveh?"

As some of you might know; Adventists do keep the Seventh-day Sabbath, so I am watching this topic with interest.

I think if I had to sum it up very briefly; I would say that I understand the sabbath rest to be a rest in Christ. Or Rest in G-ds love type of thing, and this can be done in many ways; as we see by the many and varied traditions in different parts of the globe. What is un-thinkable in one country, may be just fine in another.

With Adventists; their pastors work harder on the Sabbath than any other dayof the week; if they are a good one.

I'm sorry, didn't even realize that I used the term, it's just second nature. Mitzveh is simply a commandment, mitzvot is the plural. You'll see them used in here quite a bit. And it's not a "foolish" question - that would be the question not asked!!

Castaway57 · Jan 9, 2013

yedida said:
I'm sorry, didn't even realize that I used the term, it's just second nature. Mitzveh is simply a commandment, mitzvot is the plural. You'll see them used in here quite a bit. And it's not a "foolish" question - that would be the question not asked!!

Thankyou! That is the new thing I have learned for today!

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

Castaway57 said:
Thankyou! That is the new thing I have learned for today!

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

Castaway57 said:
As some of you might know; Adventists do keep the Seventh-day Sabbath, so I am watching this topic with interest.

When I was younger and my mother was a single mom going to school, she had some very close friends who were 7th Day Adventist. Very wonderful people and I will never forget the ways they looked out for us when many others would not.

That said, I think it's awesome to see how many Adventists behave on Sabbath. And many of them are people I've loved listening to. Walter Pearson was one I grew up with and he was AWESOME (more discussed over in the Adventist forums here at a thread I made on the man).

I think if I had to sum it up very briefly; I would say that I understand the sabbath rest to be a rest in Christ. Or Rest in G-ds love type of thing, and this can be done in many ways; as we see by the many and varied traditions in different parts of the globe. What is un-thinkable in one country, may be just fine in another.

Can definately see that. It is and should always be about Yeshua - and there is variety on what is done all around the world when people seek to honor Him on Sabbath.

With Adventists; their pastors work harder on the Sabbath than any other dayof the week; if they are a good one.

Curious as to why they work harder than all others on the Sabbath. Do you mean that he did more work on the Sabbath than others in the congregation did? Or do you mean that he personally did more work on the Sabbath day than any other day of the week he had?

Gxg (G²) · Jan 9, 2013

netzarim said:
I see no problem with worshiping with your family at home if one desires to do that to fulfill the commandment to have a sacred assembly on Sabbath, but I also see no problem with traveling to worship and remember YHWH with others.

Regardless of how one does it, so long as it is remembered that we're to not forsake the assembly of the Brethren - it's all good. I've seen a lot of people over the years assume that to not forsake the assembly means you have to meet in an organized way on a certain day EVERYTIME....based on this scripture (NKJV):

Hebrews 10:17

Hold Fast Your Confession

19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching

The focus doesn't seem to be on WHEN one meets as much as it's on the issue of simply meeting together/making as much room as possible to encourage/edify others. People do assembly via Skype or Phone Conferences just as much as they've have when they meet together physically - and they meet together on trips to locations just as much as they do when in a place for 2-3 hours for service. Within many Simple/Organic Church fellowships, this is a big deal - as they're very active in speaking against many forms of Traditional gathering and saying that having to meet in a building and have a service isn't something you need to make into a law for all believers....and they're very much for weekly meeting wherever one can, be it in the park for a gathering or in someone's home for fellowship. And actually living life together - for many will meet in a service and think they didn't forsake the assembly and yet they don't even take time to encourage others throughout the week.

Acts 20:8-10 /Acts 20
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upstairs room where we were meeting. 9 Seated in a window was a young man named Eutychus, who was sinking into a deep sleep as Paul talked on and on. When he was sound asleep, he fell to the ground from the third story and was picked up dead. 10 Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “He’s alive!”

More was shared elsewhere on the extent of places Yeshua went to for encouraging/teaching - as seen here:

Easy G (G²);60582265 said:
models of community apart from the Synagouge model were the Temple Model and the Tabernacle model that was first given in the Mosaic Law (Exodus 25-36, Exodus 38 , Exodus 39, Exodus 40, Leviticus 8, Leviticus 17 , Numbers 1:52-54 /Numbers 1 , Numbers 3 , Numbers 4, Numbers 9 , Numbers 10 , Numbers 16:8-10 , Numbers 19:12-14 )...one where much travel was involved. Some are of the mindset that the synagouge concept (as it was not outlined within scripture as a command) was meant to be something that could evolve with the times (seen here/here/here )....and one that eventually did when Jewish believers were being kicked out of synagouges for their faith.....with them having to learn how to live mobile just as Christ did.

The early church seemed based more so on a tabernacle model....often accussed of not supporting Temple. The example of Stephen comes to mind, as he refuted the final charge, that he has spoken imroperly against the Temple (Acts 6:13-14), by showing that it was the people, not God, who wanted a dwelling place or house more substantial than the Tent of Witness or "Tabernacle" originally authorized in the Torah ( Acts 7:43-45 ). The concept of the temple came into more view under the life of David---as seen in 2 Samuel 7:1-3 and 2 Samuel 7 ( 1 Chronicles 6:31-33/1 Chronicles 6, 1 Chronicles 22:4-6, 1 Chronicles 23:25-27 , and 1 Chronicles 24-26 )- --- when it came to his desire for a physical temple for God. The Lord conceded....and of course, the centralized location of Temple had its benefits---especially as it concerned management. There were many benefits to having a mobile place of God's dwelling..and its something that's often discussed for reference today when it comes to the concept of Simple/Organic and Missional Church....a church that's based on the concept that church is not a building as much as the people/God's prescence within us. A focus not on preaching, but of the Prescence of Christ...as the Lord would often go places/not preach at all because of what His Spirit BROUGHT in (i.e healings, miracles, deliverance, etc), some of it similar to a good old fashion Tent Revival when seeing how the Lord sometimes ended up doing deliverance ministry/laying hands on people for hours rather than preaching

Yeshua lived out the mobile concept of God's prescence when going to places/preaching there even when others would not while they remained in synagouge. Although he often preached in synagogues, it was never done to establish a case against preaching in other formats...or assuming that Christ would NEVER have been for preaching in a Church. Jesus and the apostles frequently taught in synagogues (Matt. 4:23; Lk. 4:15; Luke 6:6; Luke 13:10, etc). However, Jesus did use synagogues to teach againstJewish traditions that were inaccurate and he spoke in synagouge on misconceptions about the Law. In one of the more notable of these passages the Jews became so angry over what Jesus taught in the Synagogue that they tried to kill Him (Luke 4:16-29). Luke 13:10-17 also records an occasion on which Jesus taught in a synagogue, but people were also upset with Him there. In fact, this passage shows that Jesus debated in the synagogue.

Vastly different from the image of Jesus simply using synagouges as a place to preach regularly. Because of who Christ was and what He represented, he was often kicked out of synagogues...and the same went for his followers, as synagogue members were excommunicated for believing that Jesus was the Messiah (Jn. 9:22; John 12:42; John 16:2).

It is because of those factors that Christ often went to the mountains or the fields and preached in the places that could be accessible for all....in the same way that many churches do so today. His preaching in synagouge was indeed beautiful, but it was not His focus when it came to preaching wherever he could to bring people to Him For more info on the issue, one can go online and consider investigating the following:

" Church and Culture: The Church as a Third Place"

"Toward a Missional Spirituality. - Missional Spirituality -short" ( )

"Darrell Guder: Image of Temple vs Tabernacle :Missional Church Network" ( )

In regards to Acts 7, Stephen seems to make the case that the Temple (as the Jews knew of it) was inferior to the Tabernacle..as seen in the case in Acts 7. And others in the Missional Camp have noted how the Temple didn't have as much significance in the NT church with Jewish believers as it did with those in mainline Judaism. For we read that they met in homes, sure, but they also had a “third” place they seemed to frequent on a daily basis – the temple courts (Acts 2:46). While they may have been there to engage in actual temple worship on a daily basis ( Acts 3:1), it is more likely they turned the temple courtyard into the equivalent of a first-century "Starbucks" in order to gather as a community (e.g., Acts 5:12)...in honor of what God did in making them His new temple.

For others in the camp have noted, the first dwelling place God designed for Himself was a mobile home (a tabernacle) because He wanted to be on the move with His people. ....and as we see today, whenever we become focused solely on buildings rather than relationship, we end up not being able to do as Jesus did when he went to bring his message to places that others wouldn't go because they wouldn't go but to the Temple in Jerusalem. ...and the same mess also occurred with the Jews who had the OUTER symbolism of the Temple and yet they didn't have God's prescence..

John 4:19-26

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

16 Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit dwells in your midst? 17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.

2 Corinthians 6:16
What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

1 Corinthians 6:18-20

19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?

Ephesians 2:21

In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord.

As said elsewhere, many Jews do not even go to synagouge and do not focus on whether a sermon or teaching is shared in synagouge simply because that was done historically. For the many who may be Jewish and yet live in the outdoors, living in a very earthy manner that would make them feel highly uncomfortable in a synagouge...and for them, they'd probably prefer the nomadic/travelling lifestyle that the Patriarchs and ancient Israel had when living outside in tents (Genesis 25 ,Genesis 13:4-6 , Numbers 1:51-53 )/farming and raising herds.

yedida · Jan 9, 2013

Easy G (G²);62147601 said:
When I was younger and my mother was a single mom going to school, she had some very close friends who were 7th Day Adventist. Very wonderful people and I will never forget the ways they looked out for us when many others would not.

That said, I think it's awesome to see how many Adventists behave on Sabbath. And many of them are people I've loved listening to. Walter Pearson was one I grew up with and he was AWESOME (more discussed over in the Adventist forums here at a thread I made on the man).

Can definately see that. It is and should always be about Yeshua - and there is variety on what is done all around the world when people seek to honor Him on Sabbath.
Curious as to why they work harder than all others on the Sabbath.

I think he said that his pastor worked harder on the Sabbath than on he worked on the other days of the week, not harder than the people per se.

Sabbath: What Do You Personally Do and How Do You Observe It?

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Early Buddhist

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Jewish

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Early Buddhist

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

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Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7)

Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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