Did God make a mistake?

timbo3 said:

Would a body builder, though having the capability to lift say 500 pounds, carry it around everywhere he goes ? Only in certain situations does he use his power to lift this amount of weight. Likewise of our Creator, Jehovah God. He has the power of foreknowledge, but uses it only in select situations.

What purpose would it serve for him to know all things about everyone ? Most information about anyone is meaningless, and unless it concerns his people, it has no value to God except in determining what is in the heart. It is mostly the religions of Christendom that have attached the word "omniscient" to Jehovah.

Too, consider the legal ramifications. For example, if a pharmaceutical company knew in advance that the drug that they are making is known to have deadly side effects, and they continue to manufacturer it, selling it to the public, and death does occur, are they innocent or guilty ?

Just as the Ortha Evra birth control patch (made by Janssen Pharmaceuticals) was known in advance that it can cause blood clots due to the release of too much estrogen, killing a 25 year old woman, thus making the manufacturer guilty, so also of God if he knew in advance that the creating of Adam and Eve would result in all the oppression, murders, bloody wars throughout history.

However, he did not use his power of foreknowledge with regard to Adam and Eve. Consider: Why was he surprised at Adam's saying he was naked, if Jehovah knew in advance that Adam and Eve would rebel ?(Gen 3:11) Why place the "tree of knowledge of good and bad" in the middle of the garden as a test if he knew in advance that they would eat from it ?(Gen 2:9, 17) Testing is for when something is not known, not when it is known.

Jehovah's knowledge of the universe is unfathomable, knowing everything there is about it, having full and complete knowledge of it. At Isaiah 40, Isaiah writes: "Who has measured the waters in the mere hollow of his hand, and taken the proportions of the heavens themselves with a mere span ?....Who has taken the proportions of the spirit of Jehovah, and who as his man of counsel can make him know anything ? (who) teaches him knowledge, or makes him know the very way of understanding ?"(Isa 40:12-14) Of the all the laws and statues of the universe, of all the knowledge of the universal laws, he knows everything, being the Grand Creator.(Ecc 12:1)

However, he restricts his foreknowledge, using it only when necessary to reveal what his people needs to know concerning the future. Many confuse his fullness of knowledge of his created handiwork with his power of foreknowledge. They are not the same.

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timbo3 said:

Jesus said that few would really grasp the depth of the knowledge of Jehovah God. At Matthew 13, concerning understanding "the mysteries of the kingdom", Jesus said that only his genuine disciples are privileged to understand it, but to everyone else what he said was ' just an illustration'.(Matt 13:11, 12)

In giving the illustrations of the "kingdom", he used the Greek word syneimi that means "to mentally put the pieces together."(Matt 13:13, 14, 15, 19, 23, 51) Most are unable "to mentally put the pieces together" or unwilling to set aside their own belief structure when it is seen as conflicting with "accurate knowledge" of the Bible.(Phil 1:9)

Most want to place their own ideology on Jehovah God, putting him as a triad God or that he has little to no interest in mankind (agnostic) due to some questioning why he has, according to their thinking, seemingly done nothing to resolve the suffering of mankind.

These are unwilling to examine more deeply the matter regarding his foreknowledge, continuing to push that he knows everything about everything, even the smallest details of every person's life in advance. How shallow their thinking is, without seriously considering what the Bible has to say and not the Book of Mormons, in which Joseph Smith lifted some 27,000 words directly from the King James Bible, though having condemned the Bible as "polluted".

Hence, it would ' make little sense to you', that Jehovah chose to use his foreknowledge selectively. Just because he knows that a sparrow fell to the ground, does that mean that he knew this is in advance ? No. By means of his holy spirit, God is able to "see" anything he wishes, such as keeping logged a person's personality "on file" so to resurrect them after having died.(Rev 20:13)

Of Adam and Eve, if Jehovah had known in advance that they would rebel, and thus set in motion all the monumental problems that have come down to our time, then he would be guilty, just as anyone who knew for a certainty that a deadly incident would occur.

He would then be an accessory (legal term) to a crime, for the word accessory means that ' an individual must generally have knowledge that a crime is being, or will be committed.' Under common law, a person who knows in advance that a criminal act will be perpetrated (and happens), is guilty and is used by some 27 different nations.

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timbo3 said:

By saying that I am ' flappin my gums' and calling someone a "jerk" bespeaks your personality, and not the one that the apostle Paul said that a true Christian must have: "Let your utterances be always with graciousness, seasoned with salt."(Col 4:5) Jesus said that he was "mild-tempered and lowly in heart".(Matt 11:29) You seem intent to display a small fit of anger when things do not go your way.

I will not "discuss" with you concerning Jehovah's Witnesses, for the subject under hand is about Jehovah's foreknowledge. And, as so many have done, you have made a blank statement that ' the bible says God knows all things'. Nowhere does the Bible say this, that he knows everything about everybody in advance.

You fail to grasp that God was surprised when he found out that Adam and Eve had eaten from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad", asking Adam: "Who told you were naked ? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten ? "(Gen 3:11) Why question Adam if he already knew what he had done ? Had he known in advance, would he have been shocked to hear from Adam that he had eaten from the forbidden tree ? No.

In fact, which most never examine, is that because it took Jehovah God by so much surprise and cause so much pain, that for just a moment, he was speechless, as seen at the end of Genesis 3:22, whereby there is an ellipsis or a speaker's incompleteness of thought. Because of the pain that Jesus felt due to betrayal of the nation of Israel toward Jehovah, he also was rendered speechless for just moment at Matthew 23:37.

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timbo3 said:

Many, such as yourself, give their own personal opinion without a shred of evidence. How foolish it is to accept that. This is like the Jewish religious leaders who fed the common people nothing really truthful scripturally, and whom Jesus called "crumbs" in the illustration of Lazarus and the Rich man at Luke 16.

To state that God "planned" for Adam and Eve to sin, is tantamount to equalizing him with Satan, who intentionally rebelled against God, planning out his strategy to seduce Eve. How little of the Bible you understand or how much rather you misunderstand.

You provide no scriptural basis for anything you state, but just throw it out as if it has merit. Jesus was noted one who substantiated everything solidly with Scripture or sound reasoning, in contrast to the scribes, who were supposed to teach the common people but fed them "crumbs".(Matt 7:28, 29)

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timbo3 said:

Adam and Eve were well aware what Jehovah required, for Eve told Satan when he questioned God's right to set moral boundaries: "Of the fruit of trees of the garden we may eat. But as for eating of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, God has said, ' You must not eat from it, no, you must not touch it that you do not die' ".(Gen 3:2, 3)

Upon creating Adam, God told him: "From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die."(Gen 2:17)

Thus, Adam and Eve were fully aware of Jehovah's command regarding the "tree of knowledge of good and bad." These however allowed wrongful thinking to take control and rebel against God's authority.(James 1:14, 15) The apostle Paul said that Eve was "seduced " by Satan (2 Cor 11:3), whereas Adam was not, being totally aware that he had violated Jehovah's command.(1 Tim 2:14)

And as for Jehovah not knowing the outcome and saying that I have provided no evidence is closing your eyes, for I had written that "You fail to grasp that God was surprised when he found out that Adam and Eve had eaten from the "tree of knowledge of good and bad", asking Adam: "Who told you were naked ? From the tree from which I commanded you not to eat have you eaten ? "(Gen 3:11) Why question Adam if he already knew what he had done ? Had he known in advance, would he have been shocked to hear from Adam that he had eaten from the forbidden tree ? No.

In fact, which most never examine, is that because it took Jehovah God by so much surprise and cause so much pain, that for just a moment, he was speechless, as seen at the end of Genesis 3:22, whereby there is an ellipsis or a speaker's incompleteness of thought. Because of the pain that Jesus felt due to betrayal of the nation of Israel toward Jehovah, he also was rendered speechless for just moment at Matthew 23:37."

This is sound evidence, but which the Mormons refuse to accept because they exalt Adam and Eve, and quote 2 Nelphi 2:22, 23, 25 to support this view, intimating that the first sin was sexual intercourse. Jehovah God, on the other hand, sentenced Adam and Eve to everlasting death, by telling Adam that "for dust you are and to dust you will return."(Gen 3:19) Only after the test he provided was God aware of the outcome, not before.

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timbo3 said:

Jesus called the Genesis account as factual, quoting from it at Matthew 19:4-6. The apostle Paul quoted from Genesis 2:7 at 1 Corinthians 15:45, speaking of Eve being seduced at 2 Cor 11:3 and of Adam not being deceived at 1 Timothy 2:13, 14, of noting that because of Adam's sin, that death now rules over mankind at Romans 5:12-14 as well at 1 Corinthians 15:22. Jude said that Enoch was "the seventh one in line from Adam."(Jude 14) By saying that the Genesis account is not "pure words as God spoke" is a slap in the face of both Jesus and our heavenly Father, Jehovah God.

Because Jehovah was surprised does not make him "God less", but rather shows his strong feeling of love for his creative handiwork of Adam and Eve, after having provided them with everything as a paradise for their everlasting enjoyment.

It is just as a parent that is deeply saddened or hurt when one of their children rebel after having worked very diligently to raise them to know Jehovah God.(Deut 6:6-9)

That is why at Isaiah 63, concerning the nation of Israel who disobeyed the Mosaic Law, Isaiah wrote that "during all their distress it was distressing to him. And his own personal messenger saved them. In his love and in his compassion he himself repurchased them, and he proceeded to lift them up and carry them all the days of long ago. But they themselves rebelled and made his holy spirit feel hurt. He now was changed into an enemy of theirs; he himself warred against them."(Isa 63:9, 10)

And there are verses at 2 Nephi 2:22, 23, 25, for I have the Book of Mormons, that says: "And now, behold, if Adam had not transgressed he would not have fallen, but he would have remained in the garden of Eden. And all things which were created must have remained in the same state in which they after they were created; and they must have remained forever, and had no end. And they would have had no children; wherefore they would have remained in a state of innocence, having no joy, for they knew no misery; doing no good, for they knew no sin....Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy."

That Adam and Eve were to have sexual relations is that God told them while in the Garden of Eden: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth."(Gen 1:28) These were to raise a family, extending the Garden of Eden and its pattern to the ends of the earth, transforming all the earth into a paradise.

Thus, the "original sin" was not sexual relations, for this was a blessed and purposeful arrangement between a husband and wife by Jehovah God.(Gen 2:24) So Adam did not ' fall that men might be' or come into existence, but Adam fell because of listening to his wife, Eve.(Gen 3:17)

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