Is it a sin to have a sex change? [Moved]

Ave Maria said:

It is indeed a sin. It is a grave sin in my opinion. A person should not get a sex change but should instead be satisfied with the sex that God gave them when they were conceived. God does not make a mistake when He makes one embryo a male and another embryo a female.

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I'm not convinced that God has a direct influence in determining the gender of an individual, that's down to genetics and environmental factors. God works with us as we are.

Also, what about in cases such as those who are intersexual (those with both reproductive organs)? Did God make a mistake or did Satan foil his plans (which I don't think is possible because God is infinitely greater than Satan and, as you said, God doesn't make mistakes), or don't they exist at all (despite the numerous medical and historical records).

So the obvious conclusion is that God doesn't divinely intervene 99.9% of the time, nor should he need to.

wordsoflife said:

But, you're not walking in my shoes. I am free to view sex changes how I do. As an abominable act of sexual immorality which will damn a persons soul to hell.

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So very warm and compassionate.

GenetoJean said:

Matariki, I know we have discussed this before but I think it was in a PM. In my experience, it isnt possible for a man to be feminate like a girl can be masculine. For a girl that is being a Tom-boy but it is accpeted by a lot. For a boy that is being a "sissy" and it isnt accepted by many at all. Just stating it is a society problem doesnt help, it doesnt change anything. Trying to go to your father or pastor doesnt help, all they do is try to "toughen" you up while calling you names and lecturing you that you are going to hell. The Christian counselor didnt help, he tried to point out things in my past that caused it but didnt tell me how to deal with it. Then finally now 2 different certified therapists have "diagnosed" me with being transgender.

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Yes, that's true. This is why I stand by environmental factors having the larger contributing role.

Your situation is unique to you, and should continue seeing a therapist that you know and trust. Are you sure its not possible for a man to be feminine and godly? And who matters more, our society (that is perverted) or God (who is good)? I wasn't and I'm still not accepted by a large portion of society. But I do have people who support me (which is what you need), who will accept you for who you are, and as you are.

And who's example are you more interested in following; societies image of how a man or a woman should be, or Jesus Christ's example of how a person should be?

Society can go take a hike.

GenetoJean said:

You stated a lot of ifs earlier about a male to female transexual having sexual relations with a man. I can understand your point there, I dont agree with it necessarily but I understand where you are coming from. However, how about the vast numbers of us, still referring to male to female, that are attracted to women? How is it being sexual immoral?





He actually didnt say your opinion was unintelligent; he said the opinion wasnt intelligently made. If you would explain more we could possibly understand what you are meaning better.

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Since this appears to be a sounding board for sexual relationships within a world they have never been a part of I hae a question - I am a woman to the core of my being howeve the Father blessed me to be creatd with a male body. If I lay with a woman is it a lesbian act? If I lay with a man is it a hetrosexual or homosexual act? For anyone to stand on the outside, with no intimate, not sexually, understanding to sit in judgement over me or any other person like me. It isn't a godly thing to judge indiscrimately with no knowledge of all the facts. My one and only Judge is also my Father, Creator and Redeemer and I STAND SECURE IN THAT RELATIONSHIP.
Charlena Marie Andrews

Matariki said:

I have experience with it for starters, and yes I have done my homework. Both scientifically and theologically (my first post was about theology). And I am convinced that environmental factors have a far greater role in determining the sexuality of an individual than genetics do. No, I'm not a doctor (very few people at the age of 22 are), nor is it my calling to be a doctor in the medical realm. But I have relatives that work in universities as professors in the area of psychology and sociology. So I have access to academically peer reviewed medical papers.

I may not be politically correct in my stance, but there is good evidence that backs up my position.

As I said before in my first post in this thread, there are some genetic factors involved here (in the development of the brain), which can determine the sexuality of an individual. However, many of those genetic factors are switches that need to be triggered, usually by environmental factors (stress, alienation, abuse, trauma, social pressure) are the most common. For those that use animals as a defence, need to realize that these environmental factors also occur in nature.

And I still stand by the notion of whether someone (a conscious person) engages in sexual lifestyle or not is a choice. The need to reproduce from a human perspective is instinctual. However when, where and how, yet alone whether they choose to or not, is a conscious decision (which is what differs us from the animal population in regards to sex).

Considering the complexity of sexuality, I've found a few articles that are easier to understand for the layman. One thing is for certain, the blanket statements 'I was born this way' or 'Its a choice' are far too simplistic, the truth is that sexuality is a combination of the two. Although I place my money on environmental factors being the greater contributor (as this article points out).

Genetics and Environment Shape Sexual Orientation | Psych Central News

Non-shared environment - is a subtype of environmental influences that refers to the environmental factors that produce behavioral differences among siblings living in the same household. Can also refer to the environmental influences that are unique to a given individual.

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You're name is Ava Maria?

Does a 2 year old choose to be one sex or the other?? A co-worker had 2 daughters, one was the typical female little girl, the other, at 2, the mom knew there was a difference, but just tried to have the child do more female things, but the child kept being, acting, more male than female. Even as a 3 year old, prefered boys clothing, didn't like little dresses at all, but mom kept putting them on her. This went on throughout the child's life. In her teens, about 17, she couldn't take it any more and talked to her mom and told her how she had been feeling all her life. When she sprouted breasts it was highly truamatic, she wanted to cut them off. She would cry herself to sleep often.
She knew she was a boy, and she hated her female body. The father--went nuts, turned on her, the marriage broke up as the mother sided with the child, and she finally told her daughter that she had known since she was 2 that she was not being "female", but had hoped it would go away--it didn't. Now in his late 20's, he has had his breasts removed and is living as a man.
When her mother and I talked about it, she was angry that her husband had turned on his child, saying the child was going to hell, mom was on the verge of a nervous breakdown. She wished she'd not tried to push her son into being female so much, as she now sees that it only made him more depressed. I told her God will be the final judge, but all I can see is that you were going to have a son, and somehow, in the womb, things got mixed up and the kid got the wrong plumbing and just thank God for your new son.

There are many, many people that are being found with 2 different DNA's--and not due to bone marrow transplant. They have found that the blood may have 1 DNA, but some of the organs may be of a different DNA. It nearly cost one woman her children as she gave birth to children that did not have her DNA, which is supposed to be a medical impossibility. What they have figured out is that in the womb, twins at one point merged, thus some organs have the DNA that is different from the blood DNA.----So, who is to say, that a transgender may have acquired the brain of their twin, but the rest is theirs?? It happens that maybe only one organ in the body is of a different DNA, but in some, several organs may have the different DNA---The human body is highly complex. The complexity of merged twins, even triplets, is just now being explored after finding so many with this double DNA. Which is throwing a wrench into the judicial system.

I am still awed by the fact that most people equate transgenderism with sexuality, it is a gender issue sand nothing more. Whether or not I have my body surgical modified to match my iner gender is not driven by sexualitybut rather a desire to physically reflect who I amin my soul and spirit. This isn't a question of sexual orientatio as some would pre-suppose but a desire for wholness and completeness of my body and spirit. What i choose to do in my bedroom is etweenMy God, my partner and me

SonOfTheWest said:

You're name is Ava Maria?

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I am still awed by the fact that most people equate transgenderism with sexuality, it is a gender issue sand nothing more. Whether or not I have my body surgically modified to match my inner gender is not driven by sexuality but rather a desire to physically reflect who I am in my soul and spirit. This isn't a question of sexual orientatio as some would pre-suppose but rather a desire for wholness and completeness of my body and spirit. What i choose to do in my bedroom is between my God, my partner and me, no one else has any authority to address it unless I choose to relinquish it to them.

wordsoflife said:

I am free to view sex changes how I do. As an abominable act of sexual immorality which will damn a persons soul to hell.

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I do not believe that simply having a sex change will damn any soul to hell.

wordsoflife said:

There is a time and season for everything under the sun...a time for judgement and condemnation...this thread is that time.

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Wrong - unless You are God. It sounds like you are usurping that which is reserved for our Lord.

Anyone else notice and find it kinda ironic the argument wordsoflife is presenting in a thread about Halloween...

"There is nothing in the scriptures about Halloween."
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712774/#post62094034

"Because I don't think there is anything inherently evil about the holiday like you do."
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712774/#post62093891

"...on Halloween I don't practice anything evil. I just pass out candy to the trick-or-treaters."
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712774/#post62093788

"I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating Halloween. God gives us all things to richly enjoy, including holidays."
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712774/#post62093497

"I don't believe that there is anything evil about kids wandering around in costumes getting candy. And you haven't convinced me that there is."
http://www.christianforums.com/t7712774/#post62093956


So, lets apply his logic on Halloween to this thread...

"There is nothing in the scriptures about sex changes."

"There isn't anything inherently evil about being transgender."

"A transsexual is not practicing anything evil."

"I don't think there is anything wrong with celebrating ones gender. God gives us all things to richly enjoy, including our gender."


As for the last of his statements above, what if the kids in costumes are crossdresing?

Very well said sister. Be Blessed.
Charlena

jennimatts said:

Wrong - unless You are God. It sounds like you are usurping that which is reserved for our Lord.

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As Christians we are allowed to make judgments concerning sin. How else would we know how not to sin?

praying said:

So very warm and compassionate.

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Honesty is the best policy.

jennimatts said:

I do not believe that simply having a sex change will damn any soul to hell.

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Your beliefs and my beliefs are not the same.

wordsoflife said:

As Christians we are allowed to make judgments concerning sin. How else would we know how not to sin?

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That isn't exactly what you said... you said a sex change will damn a persons soul to hell, and that this thread is the time for condemnation.

wordsoflife said:

Your beliefs and my beliefs are not the same.

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Yes, so obviously you are wrong.

jennimatts said:

Yes, so obviously you are wrong.

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Obviously not. If you went around to Churches and surveyed Pastors I guarantee that most would say that having a sex change is sin.

wordsoflife said:

As Christians we are allowed to make judgments concerning sin. How else would we know how not to sin?

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THERE IS A GREAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN JUDGING FOR YOURSELF OR FAMILY WHAT IS GOOD OR EVIL versus PASSING JUDGEMENT ON OTHERS AND TRYING TO ENFORCE IT THROUGH INTIMIDAION AND VERBAL and/ or PHYSICAL ASSAULTS

wordsoflife said:

Obviously not. If you went around to Churches and surveyed Pastors I guarantee that most would say that having a sex change is sin.

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The whole world and especially the religious leaders of that day said Jesus was nothing but an itinerant rabbi, troublemaker,blasphemer, in league with Satan and disuptive to their religious beliefs. So what is the point?