I'm through with CAF

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MKJ

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Keep trying your humble best and praying. Comfort yourself with the Church's statements indicating that habit and addiction can reduce or even eliminate a person's culpability for their actions. You would do well to seek out a competent spiritual advisor if you have not.

I think it can also help a lot to make use of the tools the Church has to fight concupiscence - things like fasting and abstinance. They tend to get forgotten but that is a really important part of their role - to build up our ability to deal with these things we struggle against mentally or physically.

It can also be a really good idea to take a closer look at so-called "venial" sins. They can sometimes play a much larger role in our problems than we realize, and dealing with them can really help in dealing with other issues. I was told once about a man who was told by his priest not to worry so much about a habitual but normally serious sin, and instead concentrate on his anger issues with his family. Doing this ultimatly had much better results for both problems because repairing his family relationships was very important in supporting change in the habitual issue (and it impacted his family a lot more too.)

This is the other reason I think getting caught up in the venial/mortal distinction is not always that helpful. The best elucidations of how sin can affect us I have ever read are The Screwtape Letters and The Great Divorce. What is remarkable in both is how it is through seemingly small things that most people are separated from God. As Screwtape tells Wormwood, most people do not really want to be involved in the big, impressive sins, and they may just as quickly repent once they have committed them. But the small, daily ones that we do not even think about will take us slowly but surely along the road to Hell, and can grow to impact many areas of our life without us realizing it.
 
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MikeK

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I just confess it every time I go to mass. And pray too of course. I just dont feel qualified to say I have reduced culpability so I ere on the safe side.

That's a good practice. Judge your own actions harshly, err on the side of caution (but not scrupulosity). It can be a difficult tightrope to walk. Confess often and trust always in The Lord. His wish is that you be saved, not condemned. He knows your struggles and your weaknesses. Recall the thorn in Paul's side, and be thankful for your struggles and even your failings, as they will keep you humble and remind you that alone, you're not much.
 
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AMDG

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I'm unfamiliar with that term.

It's sins that seem to be more or less habitual. Wrong doing that we just seem to do over and over and over again--no matter how hard we try to avoid sinning. You know, they "beset" us--they harass us. Only Our Lord and Our Lady are perfectily sinless. :) Most Catholics might call them "venial" sins.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Let's ponder consent.

Full consent is likely when our conscience - the Holy Spirit - arouses guilt or a desire to avoid said sin, but we do it anyway. We 'know' it is wrong - but we do it.

We are consenting to the sin regardless of the spirit's urgings to avoid it.

Some say - a mortal sin is only a sin if we know it is a mortal sin and do it in spite of knowing this.

Yet rather - many NDE's who went to hell were not Catholic - didnt know [as most do not] that there is a difference between mortal and venial.

For instance - there was a fireman who was living with his girl friend - he wasnt religious but believed in God. He 'died' temporarily from a fire [ie he returned obviously]... when he resumed from the dead - he immediately asked the g/f to marry him. She couldnt get over the change in him. He began to attend church too. I forget which one.

Now - was this guy off the hook because he didnt know he was fully consenting to a mortal sin? No.
Did this guy go to hell because he still - committed a mortal sin? Yes.

He was fortunate whereas many are not - he got a 2nd chance and he changed his life - after - knowing his choices were mortal - IE - led his soul to hell.

One cannot loosely translate 'full consent' to 'Ok, I know this is a mortal sin - therefore i am going to do it.'
Rather - it is mortal because the Spirit speaks to us and when we ignore Him and yet we know in our gut it is wrong... but do it anyway - regardless of religious affiliation - we become guilty.
[Someone mentioned God writing it in our hearts {which is how the Gentiles were saved by following their 'conscience'} - indeed this is true - this is called feeling guilty]

Many NDE's who went to hell committed mortal sins - and were not even Catholic. So we cannot put God in a neat box nor state for fact that the conditions required to meet it being a mortal sin - is consent only only the condition we have 'book smart' knowledge of what is mortal. Because many ppl who go to hell - didnt expect to - and didnt even know a mortal sin exists.
Some in the Protestant circles say 'Just say you believe' and your debt is cancelled. It doesnt work that way...

God always speaks to the soul to avoid doing that which is so tragically wrong - and will separate us - that doesnt mean we need a walking encyclopedia of which sins fall in certain categories to go to hell or not. And yes God is merciful - which is why HE calls our minds to do right. We still ignore our consciences - which is Him. We ignore guilt - which is Him. Then we consent to mortal sin with full 'knowledge' because we 'do know better' - we are given guilt and even the feeling it is wrong.

Then how do we tell others mortal sin is not even mortal because so and so didnt know it was mortal?

They know - because God Who works in us - told them to avoid it in the way He works in us.
This is true - for anyone who can admit to feeling guilty about 'going to do something' but do it anyway.
 
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Tallguy88

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Wa, it is also a possibility that those NDEs were if fact what God showed them so they would amend their lives, not necessarily their final destination. Also, they may have been viewing purgatory.

Just food for thought.
 
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MKJ

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Or, they were not dead at all and so what they saw had nothing to do with anything except their own mind.

People who have not dies haven't gone to Hell. People who are alive have not died.

NDE's are not a theological argument and I would be interested to see where the CC uses them as proof of anything.
 
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Fantine

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Seriously, every time I go there, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.

You are a young man of unusual discernment for your years.

As far as NDE's go, my experience is that they have brought more people to faith than they have led to apostasy, and so, "affirmed" or not, I am grateful that they have provided a channel of grace to so many.
 
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Tallguy88

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Fantine said:
You are a young man of unusual discernment for your years.

As far as NDE's go, my experience is that they have brought more people to faith than they have led to apostasy, and so, "affirmed" or not, I am grateful that they have provided a channel of grace to so many.

Thank you. I try to maintain reasonableness and moderation in all things.
 
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WarriorAngel

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Wa, it is also a possibility that those NDEs were if fact what God showed them so they would amend their lives, not necessarily their final destination. Also, they may have been viewing purgatory.

Just food for thought.
The soul knows at their judgment where they are.

Although in some cases God allows NDE's for witnesses of the judgment they and others may face if they dont amend.
NDE's are His mercy - i believe.
And as one priest who died and returned from judgment of hell - are to bear fruit.

Or, they were not dead at all and so what they saw had nothing to do with anything except their own mind.

People who have not dies haven't gone to Hell. People who are alive have not died.

NDE's are not a theological argument and I would be interested to see where the CC uses them as proof of anything.
I know a guy who was dead for a day... returned with a toe tag in the morgue. [from a drug overdoes]
Maybe he wasnt dead?
Maybe he pretended to have rigamortis.

The guy who returned [i spoke of above] was on a tv special years back.
They recanted his death - vouched for by medical personnel and other firemen.

I mean if someone wants to make something up like this - they are usually hard put to find that many witnesses to back up a story.
That is a lot of liars.


You are a young man of unusual discernment for your years.

As far as NDE's go, my experience is that they have brought more people to faith than they have led to apostasy, and so, "affirmed" or not, I am grateful that they have provided a channel of grace to so many.
:thumbsup:

And that - is why they are given another chance. To be witnesses. To bear fruit in a time where sin is so acceptable.
We are in a period of grace when ppl get another chance.
 
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Tallguy88

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WarriorAngel said:
The soul knows at their judgment where they are.

Although in some cases God allows NDE's for witnesses of the judgment they and others may face if they dont amend.
NDE's are His mercy - i believe.
And as one priest who died and returned from judgment of hell - are to bear fruit.

I know a guy who was dead for a day... returned with a toe tag in the morgue. [from a drug overdoes]
Maybe he wasnt dead?
Maybe he pretended to have rigamortis.

The guy who returned was on a tv special years back.
They recanted his death - vouched for by medical personnel and other firemen.

I mean if someone wants to make something up like this - they are usually hard put to find that many witnesses to back up a story.
That is a lot of liars.

:thumbsup:

And that - is why they are given another chance. To be witnesses. To bear fruit in a time where sin is so acceptable.
We are in a period of grace when ppl get another chance.

I'm not saying they didn't see hell. I'm just throwing out some alternatives. Also, when you say they know where they are, most Protestants don't believe in purgatory, so they could have been there and mistaken it for the only place other than heaven they believe in.
 
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WarriorAngel

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At death we are no longer ignorant.
However; a lot is forgotten - unless the said NDE victim is told to 'profess such and such'.
The Lord only allows so much to be remembered...

But the judgment is not forgotten.

I have read of NDE's going to purgatory - and they knew that's where they were.
Hell is an unforgettable judgment and the soul actually directs itself there...they know.
 
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StThomasMore

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Seriously, every time I go there, I feel like I'm in the twilight zone. For example I just read this in a thread about mortal vs venial sin:

"STOP!!! Missing mass is a mortal sin. You go to hell for it, unless you are literally physically incapable of attending. You are Catholic and should know this.

I REPEAT.... MISSING MASS IS A MORTAL SIN THAT RENDERS ONE INCAPABLE OF ENTERING HEAVEN IF HE OR SHE DIES BEFORE GOING TO CONFESSION!!!"

You can't reason with people like that. I still read the aaa section, but I don't participate any more. Obob is better. Fewer people so you get to know who you're dealing with.

In cases of health issues I would say it cannot be a sin if a person is incapable of going to Mass because of physical or mental health issues. This can be especially tricky with people who have things like agoraphobia
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Well I just got suspended from CAF for three days.

I was debating with a person in the News Forum. This person wants
Social Security terminated immediately.

Anyway, he has the number "14" at the end of his name, so I asked if that was his age? I asked because he said his parents saved enough to retire and will collect SS benefits, but could retire without them. So, I figured he was too young to understand SS benefits and why people need and count on them.

The mod suspended me.

Jim
 
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St_Barnabus

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Well I just got suspended from CAF for three days.

I was debating with a person in the News Forum. This person wants
Social Security terminated immediately.

Anyway, he has the number "14" at the end of his name, so I asked if that was his age? I asked because he said his parents saved enough to retire and will collect SS benefits, but could retire without them. So, I figured he was too young to understand SS benefits and why people need and count on them.

The mod suspended me.

Jim

:doh: From what I know of that mod, you are on his radar, and any excuse will do. I'm so sorry.... (sigh)
 
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JimR-OCDS

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:doh: From what I know of that mod, you are on his radar, and any excuse will do. I'm so sorry.... (sigh)


Yeah and it doesn't actually take me violating the rules, just for a person to complain and say they were insulted.

Anyway, I have to stay out of the news forums after my suspension is up.

I don't know why I bother anyway, the majority are so conservatively biased, there is nothing enlightening by being in there.

Jim
 
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JimR-OCDS

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FYI, this is the post I responded to, which was about Social Security;


Actually, seniors are an entitled class, and to a large extent an undeserved entitled class. There are plenty who could work, but prefer to receive government handouts instead.


His post stayed, but because I asked if the 14 at the end of his name was his age, I got suspended.

Anyway, I was able to go in an report the post, but my guess I'm about to be banned for life, once again. :D

Jim
 
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MKJ

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Yeah and it doesn't actually take me violating the rules, just for a person to complain and say they were insulted.

Anyway, I have to stay out of the news forums after my suspension is up.

I don't know why I bother anyway, the majority are so conservatively biased, there is nothing enlightening by being in there.

Jim


I was banned permanently from CAF over a year ago. No great loss really.
 
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