Is there life after death... a poll

Is there life after death?

  • There is life after death, right away, you are judged worthy or not at death.

  • There is no life after death, you cease to exist.

  • There is 'soul sleep' where you don't exist until a future resurrection event.

  • The resurrection is literal poping out of the ground on the earth.

  • There is both, some sort of soul existance in heaven, followed by a future resurrection.

  • The resurrection is in various complicated stages.

  • Don't know, don't care, sit down and shut up.


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hiscosmicgoldfish

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Is there life after death?

Or soul sleep?

Or some kind of existence in heaven, without a resurrection body?

Or do we have to wait for the return of Christ, when he will raise us up on the last day?

Is judgement after death, or do we all wait until sometime after a supposed millennium of 1000 years on the earth. Some people believe that there is a resurrection at the Second Advent, of the righteous only, the unrighteous are resurrected at the end of the millennium.

The bible is just confusing about the matter. Paul believed at first in a resurrection, when Jesus returns to earth, which Paul initially thought would be quick (like everyone else). Did Paul change his mind later in life?
 

Soulgazer

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I maintain no perrsonal belief on this. It will take care of itself.

A man who will not steal for fear of the law is just a timid thief.
A man who will not steal for hope of a future reward is just a greedy thief.
A man who will not steal because he loves his neighbors is not a thief.
 
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ananda

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There is life after death.

However, there is no determining of the sequence of events after earthly death. I believe that after death, we move from this world governed by time, into a heavenly world that is not subject to time. Therefore, determining sequences (which necessarily involves time) is meaningless.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish

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There is life after death.

However, there is no determining of the sequence of events after earthly death. I believe that after death, we move from this world governed by time, into a heavenly world that is not subject to time. Therefore, determining sequences (which necessarily involves time) is meaningless.

I agree that the next world is without time. Some people believe in an earthly resurrection, in a millennial kingdom. Paul seems to have believed that, when he said that the dead in Christ rise first, at the Second Advent, or rapture, and then those alive at that time would be translated into glorified bodies, and rise upwards to meet Christ in the clouds.
That must have been a belief in a very literal resurrection event, when Christ returns, and not before.
 
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ananda

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I agree that the next world is without time. Some people believe in an earthly resurrection, in a millennial kingdom ... That must have been a belief in a very literal resurrection event, when Christ returns, and not before.
I believe in a millennial kingdom, ruled by Messiah on a renewed earth :thumbsup: This was foreshadowed by the seventh Biblical holiday of Sukkot.
 
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DennisTate

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Is there life after death?

Or soul sleep?

Or some kind of existence in heaven, without a resurrection body?

....

Although this doesn't fully answer the question I personally was impressed by the description of four space - time dimensions above our as given to Dr. George Ritchie during his NDE.

George Ritchie - near-death experiences

Jesus gives him a tour of four different dimensions in the afterlife. They both fly toward a large city on Earth where they notice a group of assembly-line workers at work. He witnesses the spirit of a woman trying desperately to obtain a cigarette from the workers who are oblivious to her presence. This woman died severely addicted to cigarettes.
 
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Hillsage

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Though I am not adamant concerning my thoughts, I presently believe we are triune beings consisting of spirit, soul and body. And the fate of our total being is as follows.

Our body dies as a result of being 'sinful flesh' and returns, in judgment, to earth as ashes or dust.

Our soul goes into soul sleep at the death of our body. It will awake to a judgment where it will be judged for good/bad works committed by our body in conjunction with our soul.

Our spirit returns to God, as All spirits are eternal. To kill a spirit is the equivalent of thinking you can kill a ghost. Whether your spirit bows to the Savior 'here and now' or 'then and there', matters not...it ultimately will be restored to 'the Father' who loves them all.

I am 'guessing' that there is some what of a time frame for these individual events to take place. What I mean is, I've heard that the reason Jesus waited 4 days to raise Lazarus was because the Jews thought that a human spirit only lingered 3 days after the death of the body. This made a profound impact, concerning authority, when Jesus summoned the spirit of Lazarus back after that period of time.
 
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Soulgazer

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Does anyone know what are the official labels are for Christians who believe in life being possible in heaven, and those who believe the Resurrection is where/when we get to live again.
Pre second century, there was no historical difference, hense no labels. Many of them believed even that you ressurect while you are alive, and that if you didn't, when you died you recieved nothing. (cf Philip)

The concept of an afterlife was still heavily debated in first century Temple Judaism, Pharisee saying yea, and Sadducee saying nay. This carried forward for another century also. Originally, Judaism contained no such concept as personal salvation, but rather as a perpetuation of Israel as a nation, and eventually as an empire. The Greeks believed in a heaven and hell, and this was adopted by the proto-pharisee around the time of Alexander, as the Greek Empire conquered what was then the known world.

Hope this helps.
 
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Fencepost

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Death (a poem of hope)

Broken down and Trodden
Underground and sodden
Final demise
Lasting surprise
We hear, we wonder
Does death care?

Envisioned angels
Holy hosts singing
Victory in Jesus
Burning bright in season
We can see this light
Death has no sting
No victory
For this we sing
Does death care?

Death does not exist
The phyiscal can not describe the spiritual
These two are at odds
The flesh and the spirit
Encased in blinding awe
The only death I fear
Is missing Jesus's call

by: Fencepost the Evangelist
 
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JoJo50

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Many are confused, because though many want the truth ,aren’t taught the total true ,(Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge). And that’s because many ministers are NOT sent by Jehovah God and Jesus ,(Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in). and (2Cor. 11:13-15). Concerning the question, the ONLY life after death, is in the resurrections. Many believe the dead is still living. But ONLY in Heaven or Hell, which they’re really are half right. There are those who were part of the 144,000, which is NOW in Heaven ,(Rev. 7:4) , (Rev. 14:1-4).

There are those who will have that Heavenly calling (being part of the 144,000). And there are those true followers of Jesus and servants of Jehovah God. That’ll live on earth FOREVER, (Eccle. 1:4 One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever). NOT just for a thousand years. And the wicked will be gone , (Psa. 37:9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth). There are many who will be resurrected, BUT… they were still IN THEIR GRAVES. Many believe when men like Moses, Abraham, and Israel, died, They went right to Heaven. That’s a false teaching, they were in their graves. Any who had that Heavenly calling couldn’t resurrect to Heaven, until Jesus died then was resurrected ,( Matt. 27:50-53 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent. And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. And came out ). So ALL “soul” , WERE basically ‘sleeping.’ Now, those who were in their tombs, are AREADY raised, and in Heaven. Again that ONLY happen once Jesus was raised.

Now!...let me explain this judgment things ,( by means of Jehovah’s HS), Some believe God will raised the dead, (even if they are ALREADY IN Heaven, or a “fiery HELL”) , to judge them. Sadly many don’t realize, IF there was a “fiery place for the “wicked”, and Jehovah God “SENT” them there. He would have sent them there, JUSTLY! Which means there would be NO reason he would feel to release them, And the same for those in Heaven. IF they wasn’t meant to be there, they WOULDN’T BE THERE! , those in Heaven who were resurrected, WON’T EVER DIE! , (Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years).

Those who live to see the end of this system, (“the end of the world”), and refuse to KNOW Jehovah God, AND DO HIS WILL ,( Matt. 7:21 , John 17:3 , Rom. 10:2), will be destroyed. Those who say they worship Jesus, but does what the world do, (Luke 9:23 and John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world), will be destroyed. And those who CALL ON THE NAME JEHOVAH, (like myself, a Jws), but ALSO , didn’t please Jehovah Godwill be destroyed! Those who is still living on earth, and has that heavenly calling, will automatically go straight to heaven ,(Of course they will be turn into spirit being, since NO flesh can enter Heaven).

On the other hand!... those who are dead, those who followed Jesus, and serve Jehovah God. And those who DIDN’T!.. followed Jesus and served Jehovah God, Many WILL be RESURRECTED! During the 1000 year satan will be locked away ,( Rev. 20:1,2). And the wicked will ALREADY be destroyed, (Psa. 37:38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off). During this time those on the earth , who NEVER knew of the God of Israel, or Jesus, will learn . and those who had that chance when they WERE living, (which is a blessing for them to have a SECOND CHANCE), will also learn. (I’m sure at that point , they will JUMP at that chance)! The world would be peaceful, until satan is released! ,( Rev. 20:7,8 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea).

Once again the world will be back to the way it was, the first time. Because those same ones who made it through the great tribulation, (the end, didn’t get destroyed). And those who were resurrected, will have to prove A-gain!, their loyalty to Jehovah God. Here at (Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever). Many believe satan and false Christians, would be literally tortured forever, not so. They will just be totally destroyed! The reason for the words tortured, especially towards satan and his demons. They knew at one point, when they were Angels in Heaven, they would have lived forever. But they know they don’t have that gift anymore, it’s torture just to know this. So this scriptures here concerning those who were resurrected ,(John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation).

Didn’t mean as soon as they are resurrected, they will go BACK to “hell” ,(christedom’s hellfire). That would make NO sense to God, to bring someone BACK ALIVE, from “hell”, JUST to send them back. Jehovah God doesn’t have that crazy mindset, ONLY imperfect humans would think something like that! John 5:29 is referring to after those who choose to do wrong ,AFTER, satan is let loose, will TOTALLY be destroyed. Right along with satan, false prophets, and satan’s wordly governments, (Rev. 19:19,20 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone). i hope this gave you a better understnading of Jehovah's word. peace :)
 
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DennisTate

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Interesting points....another possibility is that each moment of what we regard as the past can be fully and totally brought back by God...and then an entirely new branch of time in which more of the Holy Spirit is poured out can be initiated.....In those new branches of time people could turn to God who failed to do so within a situation where less of the Holy Spirit was poured out.

In other words rather than being nailed down to being merely a straight line...time could actually look far more so like a menorah!
 
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ElijahW

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Pre second century, there was no historical difference, hense no labels. Many of them believed even that you ressurect while you are alive, and that if you didn't, when you died you recieved nothing. (cf Philip)

The concept of an afterlife was still heavily debated in first century Temple Judaism, Pharisee saying yea, and Sadducee saying nay. This carried forward for another century also. Originally, Judaism contained no such concept as personal salvation, but rather as a perpetuation of Israel as a nation, and eventually as an empire. The Greeks believed in a heaven and hell, and this was adopted by the proto-pharisee around the time of Alexander, as the Greek Empire conquered what was then the known world.

Hope this helps.
I think there should be some actual labels out there for the two kinds of thought. Those who thought like the Zoroastrians, and those who thought like the Greek pagans. I personally understand Christianity as being strictly on the Zoro side in regards to the afterlife and the Greek pagan understanding a byproduct of unfamiliarity with the material that has became increasingly popular as people become increasingly uneducated about religion and philosophy. There should be others who have labeled this thinking for discussion in the past, I just don't know what it is. Calling the Greek understanding "pagan" or "superstitious" is going to come off as insulting so I need something more professional.
 
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Soulgazer

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I think there should be some actual labels out there for the two kinds of thought. Those who thought like the Zoroastrians, and those who thought like the Greek pagans. I personally understand Christianity as being strictly on the Zoro side in regards to the afterlife and the Greek pagan understanding a byproduct of unfamiliarity with the material that has became increasingly popular as people become increasingly uneducated about religion and philosophy. There should be others who have labeled this thinking for discussion in the past, I just don't know what it is. Calling the Greek understanding "pagan" or "superstitious" is going to come off as insulting so I need something more professional.
"Pagan" is simply an ancient Roman derogatory slang term for people who never went to school.
The trouble of trying to come up with specific labels for differing schools of thoughts, is that there was a lot of bleed through---- that is, none of these schools existed in a vacuum. Non dualism and dualism may be the terms you are looking for though.
In ancient Judaism, God was the source of everything, good or evil, a true monotheism. I.E. King Saul was plagued with demons because God sent them. This is different than Modern Christian thought, which ascribes these kinds of "plagues" to "Satan".
This is consistent with the process of homoginesation of Zorastrian dualistic thought back into non-temple Judaism that started around the time of Christ, and was rapidly adopted by many Christian schools as a replacement for the Temple thought~

This might have been based on the "God is love" theme, highlighting a need to seperate percieved evil from a "Good God". This was particuarly true for the Marcionite Christians, whose influence is still felt in modern theology. We can't underestimate the political clime which also influenced Christians as needing to be seen as "not-jews" also.
Thus we continue to see the concept of good and evil as coming from two seperate sources, rather than seeing them coming from a single source.


He-Man had some interesting threads, as he has studied ancient Judaic thought. "Who Controls the Weather" is the thread that comes to mind. In Temple Judaism, God controls the weather, and if the weather is unfavorable it's because you have displeased God, and if it is favorable, it is because you have pleased God.
Once dualism of good and evil sources was re-homoginized back into Christianity, the "Rain falls on good and evil alike".

Hope this helps.
 
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hiscosmicgoldfish said:
Is there life after death?
Yes, I died. Now Christ lives.

Or soul sleep?
Maybe. I don't know.

Or some kind of existence in heaven, without a resurrection body?
I don't understand your question.

Or do we have to wait for the return of Christ, when he will raise us up on the last day?
Today is my last day.

Is judgement after death, or do we all wait until sometime after a supposed millennium of 1000 years on the earth. Some people believe that there is a resurrection at the Second Advent, of the righteous only, the unrighteous are resurrected at the end of the millennium.

The bible is just confusing about the matter. Paul believed at first in a resurrection, when Jesus returns to earth, which Paul initially thought would be quick (like everyone else). Did Paul change his mind later in life?

The bible is confusing on a lot of topics. The only resurrection thats significant is the one that occurs with you and Christ now.
Judgement is now.

Does a Judge wait for the offender to die to charge the offender with all their trespasses?

To address the eschatological return of Christ... Christianity isn't the only religion waiting for their messiah to return... I view the return of Christ as something with dual meanings. I do take into consideration the apocalyptic references in Matthew and Luke. I felt that in my life time, I will see Christ in His true flesh because of the drastic changes in are history that do coincide with the eschatology in the gospels.

I no longer believe I will see the return of Christ in His true flesh due to a personal revelation.

When the world is full of violence (Noah) and impurity (Lot), divine intervention will happen.
Unholy beings will mingle with the flesh of woman, and holy beings will be desired by flesh.

Peace be in you.
 
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ElijahW

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"Pagan" is simply an ancient Roman derogatory slang term for people who never went to school.
The trouble of trying to come up with specific labels for differing schools of thoughts, is that there was a lot of bleed through---- that is, none of these schools existed in a vacuum. Non dualism and dualism may be the terms you are looking for though.
I agree that pagan is a term for uneducated understandings which is why I don't like but is there any reason to think that isn’t what is being described with that understanding of the afterlife or is there a better term for that understanding of the afterlife that would be more suitable? Which philosophical school was teaching this?

I agree that there is bleeding of ideas into one belief system from another but many of the ideas contradict each other and should produce clear labels. Such as the universe having a beginning, or being infinite; or in this case, if life is possible after we leave this world in another dimension, or will we have to be resurrected in this world if we wish to continue to live after we die.

There has to be some appropriate labels out there somewhere that have been used in previous works that discussed this subject.
 
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Soulgazer

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I agree that pagan is a term for uneducated understandings which is why I don't like but is there any reason to think that isn’t what is being described with that understanding of the afterlife or is there a better term for that understanding of the afterlife that would be more suitable? Which philosophical school was teaching this?

I agree that there is bleeding of ideas into one belief system from another but many of the ideas contradict each other and should produce clear labels. Such as the universe having a beginning, or being infinite; or in this case, if life is possible after we leave this world in another dimension, or will we have to be resurrected in this world if we wish to continue to live after we die.

There has to be some appropriate labels out there somewhere that have been used in previous works that discussed this subject.
The problem with trying to peg it down, is that the belief in an afterlife evolved rather slowly. Not to say that there weren't Judaic subsects that didn't believe in an afterlife, but for the Jewish orthodoxy of the time, Temple Judaism, it had not even been fully accepted yet at the time of Christ. It was a Greek import, primarily. The Greek religious system is much more sophisticated than is commonly believed. Though the "pagan" Greek may have believed in various gods and demi-gods, to the Greek Temple, these names such as Aphrodite, Dianna and Mars were all representative aspects of the one God. The Greeks had an "official" afterlife long before Judaism did. It was Alexander the Great that spread the idea through his conquests. The Pharisee picked it up, and integrated the idea into their version of Judaism by claiming secret oral knowledge handed down through their lineage exclusively. Think of the Pharisee and Sadducee as political parties...The Pharisee would have been liberals, and the Sadducee conservatives. The Sadducee rejected the claims of the Pharisee and the idea of any afterlife and insisted that the priestly lineage came through them. This started around 350BC.
So when we look at the evolution of an afterlife into Judaic thought, the Sadducee were a dead end, as they denied the existence of such all the way up to 70AD.
Now, when we come to the Pharisee, various factions split off and formed other factions. The Naasene, the Essene, and the Ophites are some examples. They were not Torah dependent, but had their own scriptures. The later three made up the bulk of the Messianic movement, which started around 200BC, and not the Pharisee, whose writings make up the bulk of the "Old Testament". Each of the three had varying ideas of an afterlife, but except for a very few post Christ writings, we are limited in specifics. The Romans very nearly exterminated the Jewish race in 70AD, and wiped out a good 98% of the varying Jewish faiths, and hundreds of one of a kind scrolls were burned with the temple.
When we come to Christianity, we are left primarily with the gentile followers, who had very little idea of the multiple Jewish faiths, but rely even today on the few writings that survived the first Holocaust to form a probably very innacurate picture of the times. The first few centuries of Christianity from that Holocaust foward proved very syncratic, absorbing bits and pieces of what came before and combining them with the lore of other religions, including Norse and Wiccan. (I.E. Yule and Easter, respectivly) This, combined with Christianity becoming the Imperial religion has served to further obfuscate the finer details, as by imperial law, a scripture could be rewritten, the original declared to be in error, and the new copy declared original. Coupled with the pre-imperial churches fighting to become the orthodoxy, it's a pretty tangled web.
As converts came from every religion, and brought with them beliefs that they were unwilling to let go of concerning various matters, it would be extremely difficult if not impossible to pin down who brought what, when and why.
When it comes to life after death, regions east of Israel not as closely watched by Rome maintained a more spiritual version, while the Western portions looked for a more physical event.
Things became confused again in the fourth century when the "prophet" Mani converted nearly all of the known world to his version of Christianity. All of these various influences are tiny, but they add up.
 
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Evergreen48

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Is there life after death?

Or soul sleep?

Or some kind of existence in heaven, without a resurrection body?

Or do we have to wait for the return of Christ, when he will raise us up on the last day?

Is judgement after death, or do we all wait until sometime after a supposed millennium of 1000 years on the earth. Some people believe that there is a resurrection at the Second Advent, of the righteous only, the unrighteous are resurrected at the end of the millennium.

The bible is just confusing about the matter. Paul believed at first in a resurrection, when Jesus returns to earth, which Paul initially thought would be quick (like everyone else). Did Paul change his mind later in life?

Jesus told Martha that he was the resurrection and the life. And he said that though a person were dead, yet would they live, and those who had been made alive and believed in him, would never die.


John 11:25. "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: --- ( "For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.") (John 5:21) 26. And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."


So, if one who has been made alive and believes in him will never die, how could they be or why would they even need to be resurrected?

Only those who died before Jesus died and was resurrected would need to be resurrected. And that, I believe has already been accomplished, and at the same time those who were alive and remained unto his coming were changed, inasmuch as they put on immortality as we also do when we put our trust in Jesus Christ as our Savior. (1 Cor. 15:51-57) Since then, those who have died in Christ, as they move from their mortal bodies, they move into their spiritual bodies that are waiting for them in the heavenly realm, and there they will ever be.


2 Cor. 5:1. "For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3. If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 5.Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit."

Yes, definitely there is life after the death of their fleshly bodies for those who trust in the Savior Jesus Christ.
 
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zeke37

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Is there life after death?
yes.

Or soul sleep?
no.
Rev19/22 shows the angel that is one of our brethren and Christian.
Rev 5 and 6 and 12 show the dead conscious.

Or some kind of existence in heaven, without a resurrection body?
existence in heaven, with a quickened heavenly/spiritual body.

Or do we have to wait for the return of Christ, when he will raise us up on the last day?
on the last day, Christ leaves heaven with the dead in Christ
and brings them here in their already quickened heavenly/spiritual bodies,
and raises them here to live on earth again a promised.

after that, those alive at that time, will likewise be "quickened", and the righteous gathered to them
1Cor5 and 1Thes4

Is judgement after death, or do we all wait until sometime after a supposed millennium of 1000 years on the earth.
whether judgement is at His Coming (Rev11), or 1000 years after (Rev19), it is not at death
imo the judgement begins on the last day, at His Coming,
and continues for 1000 years

now, all that are worthy, are obv found worthy at death

Some people believe that there is a resurrection at the Second Advent, of the righteous only, the unrighteous are resurrected at the end of the millennium.
I agree with them....

-the righteous are brought from heaven and raised at His Coming....

-then the alive are quickened/changed
and the righteous among them are gathered together with the returning dead in Christ...

-then a refining period for some of us who are alive at His Coming...unfaithful Christians
1000 year long last day

-then the unrighteous are raised at it's end, for their destruction

The bible is just confusing about the matter. Paul believed at first in a resurrection, when Jesus returns to earth, which Paul initially thought would be quick (like everyone else). Did Paul change his mind later in life?
Paul never thought it would be "quick". why do you think that?
 
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