Paul the Apostle a false prophet?

2 Peter 3:

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

This passage ends the debate:

1) 'Our dear brother Paul', not a 'false prophet'
2)'As they do the other scriptures'- Paul's writings are also scripture!

I came across this thread again when there was a new post. Really sick and tired of Christians bashing Paul, especially when he's attacked by liberal critics, Jews, Muslims, and everyone else. The Gospels are descriptive, the Letters are prescriptive. Moses gave the law, Grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. People bring up Matthew and say, "See, it's about works!" Even though Matthew states the purpose of Jesus, You want to respect Paul's authority as an apostle, great! If not, cool, get out of the Christian church...because the issue of the law has been settled (Acts 15). Anyone who thinks Paul didn't call for Christians to live in holiness needs to read the Epistle to the Galatians very, very, carefully.

Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, who gave Himself for our sins*, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

*Mt 1:21.

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In addition to the reasons I stated earlier, I would also add that Paul's teachings just don't seem to follow what Christ has said. He seems more demanding, and his words more complex... much like the ways of the Pharisee schools like the one he learned in. Other than "switching sides" on the road, and his ceasing to murder Christians, I see little difference in Paul's approach and philosophy: same attitude, just a different focus. I believe it is mostly Paul's words that cause Christians to stumble, and opens the door for more false prophets like Calvin to distort the words of Christ. I'm just a regular person and a follower of Christ, but this is how I see it.

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IisJustMe said:

Because they are unreasoning. Most are from the Hebrew Roots Movement, and believe that Christians should submit to Mosaic Law. They totally ignore the fact that the apostles settled that matter at the Council of Jerusalem. That's the way with most unreasoning people. They don't like to have the issue confused by the facts.

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Paul was right to preach against turning back to Judaism.

The Mosaic Law carries with it a curse for not obeying every commandment. The curses are in Deuteronomy 28:15-68. Jesus bore the curse of the Law on Himself so that we wouldn't have to. (Galatians 3:13) The Jews of Paul's day had rejected Jesus and thus bore the curse on themselves.

Had the Christians subjected themselves to the Law, they would have fallen under the curse of the Law. That curse came upon the Jewish people shortly after Peter was crucified upside down. After Cestius turned back from Jerusalem, the Church had fled from Jerusalem like Lot fled from Sodom. Then the city was sieged by Vespasian and Titus, sealing a most terrible destruction upon the Jewish people, in Jerusalem an throughout the Roman Empire.

If we Christians turn back to the Mosaic Law, we nullify the fact that Christ took the curse on Himself and thereby render us punishable by the curse. That is because 'all men have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.'

Zanting said:

Why is it that some Christians consider Paul (and the books written by Paul) to be a false prophet and not an aposlte?

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That the apostles would give Paul the right hand of fellowship if he were a false apostle staggers the mind.

Paul is rejected because the revealtion of the Son (Heb 1:1-2) is rejected.

The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief.

In the faith,
Clare

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Clare73 said:

That the apostles would give Paul the right hand of fellowship if he were a false apostle staggers the mind.

Paul is rejected because the revealtion of the Son (Heb 1:1-2) is rejected.

The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief.

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Hebrews 1:1-2 speaks of "the fathers thru the prophets". That Scripture has nothing to do with Paul. And I'd disagree,also, with the theory of "Paul is rejected because the revelation of the Son is rejected." I do not at all reject the Son of God. I hold his actions and words in the absolute highest esteem, even when I thought Paul could have been legit, I held Christ above him. Shouldn't we all?
"
The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief. "

are you meaning that whoever rejects Paul, is, therefore, an unbeliever in Christ? Where did God say that?

Clare73 said:

That the apostles would give Paul the right hand of fellowship if he were a false apostle staggers the mind.

Paul is rejected because the revealtion of the Son (Heb 1:1-2) is rejected.

The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief.

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Hebrews 1:1-2 speaks of "the fathers thru the prophets". That Scripture has nothing to do with Paul. And I'd disagree,also, with the theory of "Paul is rejected because the revelation of the Son is rejected." I do not at all reject the Son of God. I hold his actions and words in the absolute highest esteem, even when I thought Paul could have been legit, I held Christ above him. Shouldn't we all?
"
The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief. "

are you meaning that whoever rejects Paul, is, therefore, an unbeliever in Christ? Where did God say that?

7he4uthor said:

salvation.

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really expands the word to something tangible and historically realized

GloryBe! said:

In addition to the reasons I stated earlier, I would also add that Paul's teachings just don't seem to follow what Christ has said. He seems more demanding, and his words more complex... much like the ways of the Pharisee schools like the one he learned in. Other than "switching sides" on the road, and his ceasing to murder Christians, I see little difference in Paul's approach and philosophy: same attitude, just a different focus. I believe it is mostly Paul's words that cause Christians to stumble, and opens the door for more false prophets like Calvin to distort the words of Christ.
I'm just a regular person and a follower of Christ, but this is how I see it.

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He hasn't caused me to stuble yet

http://www.christianforums.com/t7529920-34/#post56601136
Problems with Paul

GloryBe! said:

Clare73 said:

The word of God written calls that rejection unbelief.

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are you meaning that whoever rejects Paul, is, therefore, an unbeliever in Christ?

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You may be a believer in Jesus Christ, but you are not a believer is all of his revelation.

For the whole NT is the revelation of Christ, given personally to his apostles by him, including Paul who likewise received his revelation from Jesus Christ personally.

The majority of the NT is Christ's revelation given to Paul.

Unbelief regarding it is not a good thing.

So why did the apostles give the right hand of fellowship to Paul if he were a false prophet?
Are you wiser than the apostles?

The only thing false relating to Paul are the charges made against him by anti-Paul "subscribers"

In the faith,
Clare

stan1953 said:

James understood the least.

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James who wrote the epistle was not an apostle.

He tried to bring in Judaic Law to the early Christian Church. Both Peter and Paul had problems with His teachings, but submitted to Him anyway, probably out of deference to who he was. That was a mistake as Jesus clearly taught that the first should be the last.

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In the faith,
Clare

JHM said:

Personally, I think James understood far more than Paul.

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Paul was an apostle by the will of God, and taught by Jesus Christ.

James who wrote the epistle was not an apostle.

In the faith,
Clare

Zanting said:

Well, is it just that some question his conversion, or because he wasn't around Jesus while He still lived? Is it just some of his teachings that are questioned, or overall?

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Well, you've got two choices:
Paul was a flat-out liar who was given the right hand of fellowship by the apostles,

or he was converted according to the accounts given by eye witnesses, including Ananias, and given revelation from Jesus Christ, some of which took him so deep into the counsel of God that he was not even allowed to repeat it.

It's a no-brainer.
I'm going with historical orthodox Christianity, which is the second one.

In the faith,
Clare

Originally Posted by stan1953 James understood the least.

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Originally Posted by JHM
Personally, I think James understood far more than Paul

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Clare73 said:

Paul was an apostle by the will of God, and taught by Jesus Christ.

James who wrote the epistle was not an apostle.

In the faith,
Clare

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Nor did he identify himself as one, as did Peter and Paul

Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes in the diaspora: Greetings

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To the pilgrims of the diaspora in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

1290. diaspora dee-as-por-ah' from 1289; dispersion, i.e. (specially and concretely) the (converted) Israelite resident in Gentile countries:--(which are) scattered (abroad).
1223. dia dee-ah' a primary preposition denoting the channel of an act;
4701. spora spor-ah' from 4687; a sowing, i.e. (by implication) parentage:--seed.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7572708/
Who Do You Think Wrote "James".....Really?

Abrahamist said:

I actually think it swings both ways. We are saved by keeping the faith. Keeping the faith means doing the will of the father.

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Apostolic teaching, the rule of faith (2Tim 1:14), is that we are not saved by doing the will of the Father.

We are saved by 100% grace, through faith--not by works (of obedience), so that no one can boast

that he did anything to contribute to what was 100% grace (Eph 2:8-9).

We are not saved by works, but by faith, but faith is made up of works.

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Agreed, true faith does the will of God, but doing the will of God does not save.

It's not faith/works ---> salvation.

It's faith ---> salvation ---> works.

Works flow from salvation, they do not contribute to it.

In the faith,
Clare

Zanting said:

So Paul was Saul who persecuted Christians. He comes along after Jesus has been sacrficed and meets up with some of the apostles, hears what they are saying and goes on a rampage to erradicate their teachings and is blinded by God. After three days, God restores His sight and He finally gets it and askes to become one of Jesus deciples

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Nowhere does Scripture record that Paul "asked" to become one of the disciples.

...and somewhere in His teachings...people find fault. He is then accused of being a false prophet? But aren't there also many references to Paul in the Gosples stating that He became a true follower of Jesus? It seems to me people keep thinking that there is some kind of hidden message in the scriptures. Something that will remove all doubts and misconceptions and will eliminate all the decension among Christian thought. There are so many perspectives often based on certain scriptures instead of looking at the canon as a whole. And it also seems to me that
there are different denominations because of this. Any thoughts on this or am I way off?

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In Jesus' personal revelations to Paul, he took Paul deep into the counsel of God and revealed some things to him which he was not even allowed to repeat.

Because of the depth of Paul's revelations from Jesus, he can be hard to understand and, therefore, misunderstood.
So it takes spiritual wisdom, which comes from God, to grasp what he teaches.

In the faith,
Clare

stan1953 said:

Paul has always suffered from lack of acceptance, even when He ministered in Acts. If we are to believe our current canon of scripture, which as Christians we should, then Luke, Peter and John, were witnesses to Paul's ministry. As Peter attested to in 2 Peter, Paul was hard to accept, but His was the message to the Gentiles, which were NOT as indoctrinated as the Jews were into their own religious views. Paul was considered a traitor and heretic by many Jews, even the ones who converted to Christianity. They always found themselves opposed to Paul's teachings, when they tried to carry over ANY Judaic religiosity.
Anyone who today is offended by Pau,l is probably not where they need to be in their lives with Christ.

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Chances are they want Christ on their own terms, rather than the terms in Jesus' NT revelation of the apostles.

In the faith,
Clare