West Point's Cadet Chapel hosts first same-sex wedding

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razeontherock

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But it will still be normalized, accepted, become more prevalent, and send the message that homosexual unions are totally acceptable. It will be more of an ideal than many of the marriages the kids are exposed to.

THAT, I'm ok with. Maybe not exactly as you worded it, but as I laid it out.

Civil unions normalize homosexual unions.

Then why, and oh please tell me why, are you personally not content with CU, and insist on "marriage?"

what is your actual problem with SSM?

I have laid it out over the last ... many pages.

And I must have missed it, but what is the relationship between gay couples raising kids and abortion?

Haven't gone there yet; lots on the plate here

Anyway, it's late and I'm going to bed. I'll be back tomorrow. Cheers.

'Night Jimbob :wave:
 
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Archaeopteryx

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Of course I am, I just don't find you to be partaking in one

Then why the difficulty in answering basic questions?

1. You claim SSM will have negative effects on generations of children who grow up in an environment where SSM is a cultural and legal reality. Yet you refuse to elaborate on what those negative effects might be.
2. You claim that it is irresponsible to subject children to this progressive "experiment", yet you have no problem with other progressive "experiments", such as racial equality and women's rights. The reasons you oppose the SSM "experiment" could just as equally apply to racial equality and women's rights, yet you support the latter two. You have yet to address why this isn't a hypocritical position to take.
3. You seem to have no problem with same-sex civil unions. Yet it would seem that the negative effects you are ostensibly concerned about would be just as likely to manifest in that situation as well. If SSM is to be opposed because of negative effects (the content of which you have yet to elucidate even after repeated requests) then civil unions are to be opposed for the same reason. The fact that you oppose one but not the other represents an inconsistency in your position.
4. If civil unions are equivalent to marriage in every respect, then there is no reason not to call them marriages.
 
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razeontherock

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Well, in this case, I'd like chapter and verse to support your point that SSM would be detrimental to society.

You really want to go there? Wow:

Gen 19:28 "And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

"And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: (Genesis 19:26) But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."

"But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. (Luke 17:32) Remember Lot's wife."

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, ... shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Romans 1:27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, ... Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."



Again, chapter and verse for the definition of "holiness" and also for how SSM violates it.

(Psalm 96:9) "O worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness: fear before him, all the earth."

"In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. (Isaiah 6:2) Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, [is] the LORD of hosts: the whole earth [is] full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips" (Btw, that passage set to music is the most intense music I've ever heard or performed) (Isaiah 6:1)



"And out of the throne proceeded lightnings and thunderings and voices: and [there were] seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven Spirits of God. And before the throne [there was] a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, [were] four beasts full of eyes before and behind. And the first beast [was] like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast [was] like a flying eagle. And the four beasts had each of them six wings about [him]; and [they were] full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come." (Revelation 4:5)

There's a picture to define Holiness, and it's consistent throughout, over the span of a milennium. Now you're telling me you're going to find yourself literally and physically in the middle of that, and protest that the "right of homosexual marriage" is made allowance for in light of the previous Scriptures? *Backs away slowly*
 
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GNJ

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The equivalent of black licorice cockroaches on a white-frosted birthday cake. You can do it---but it's hideous and repulsive.

That's a terrible thing to say, but thanks for giving me an idea on how to decorate cakes for Halloween next year.
 
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David Brider

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Then why, and oh please tell me why, are you personally not content with CU, and insist on "marriage?"

Because it's an important word, with meaning and significance. I didn't go down on my knees and ask my wife (as she is now) to civil union me. I went down on my knees and asked her to marry me.
 
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David Brider

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You really want to go there? Wow:

Gen 19:28 "And he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward all the land of the plain, and beheld, and, lo, the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace."

"And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord: (Genesis 19:26) But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt."

"But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed [them] all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed. In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. (Luke 17:32) Remember Lot's wife."

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, ... shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11) And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: (Romans 1:27) And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, ... Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

All verses which say absolutely nothing about same-sex marriage, nor how it would be detrimental to society.
 
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David Brider

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So you admit you don't know what ramifications lay in store...

If it comes to that, you don't know what the ramifications, if any, will be. (Personally, I think that any ramifications of same-sex marriage on society will be largely positive. Nothing you've said yet has convinced me otherwise.)
 
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Blackwater Babe

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All verses which say absolutely nothing about same-sex marriage, nor how it would be detrimental to society.
QFT.

And even if they did, again, why should a religious text that not everyone believes, be binding on an entire country and its secular law?

If you believe the Bible condemns SSM, great. Don't have one. I remain utterly confused as to why anyone thinks this belief should be enforced against those who don't share it.
 
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KCfromNC

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You're making up this nonsense about peer reviewed literature. You know good and well none of this has taken place long enough to be able to collect meaningful data.

So you agree that there's no meaningful data to indicate that children will be harmed by allowing homosexual couples to marry. Got it.
 
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KCfromNC

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Because it will not provide the clearly proven advantageous environment for children to be raised in

You were wondering why I would ever bring up the concept of evidence or proof as if I was putting words in your mouth. And now here you are, going on and on about this alleged proof as if it actually existed. And right after admitting there's no meaningful evidence to support your rants, too. Interesting.
 
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KCfromNC

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The advantageous environment for children to be raised in, has repeatedly been shown to be what has long been the American dream / ideal:

both biological parents

Then you should be pushing to outlaw adoption. Not sure what your views here have to do with same-sex marriage, though.
 
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KCfromNC

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harm, just harm, what don't you understand. It's as plain as the nose on your face.

Maybe you have to have faith that it is there before you can see the truth... Guess when one starts using that approach there's no end to what you can "prove" "true".
 
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trunks2k

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So you agree that there's no meaningful data to indicate that children will be harmed by allowing homosexual couples to marry. Got it.

Any meaningful data we DO have has shown it has no effect on kids. Of the studies of children raised by same sex couples that I am aware of this are the results I have seen:

1. Children raised by same sex couples are just as well adjusted, functioning adults as children raised by heterosexual couples.
2. Children raised by same sex couples self report sexual orientation at the same rates as heterosexual couples (i.e. being raised by gays doesn't make you gay)
2a. Children raised by same sex couples are more willing to experiment with their sexual orientation.
3. Some additional stress was seen on children of same sex couples, but it has been from other people making fun of who their parents are.
4. Children raised by same sex couples are more likely to end up going against cultural gender roles. In other words, girls are more likely to go into math & science fields, boys are more likely to do housework, girls are less likely to wear skirts.
5. What is most important to raising a well adjusted child is financial stability and stability of the overall family relationship. The sex of the parent(s) doesn't really seem to make much of a difference.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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Originally Posted by razeontherock
The advantageous environment for children to be raised in, has repeatedly been shown to be what has long been the American dream / ideal:
both biological parents
Guess we should make single parent families illegal too, if potential harm of children is your actual concern here?
 
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