War with Israel

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Chris81

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Chris, if you noticed, I changed "You are a liar" to "You are mistaken" I was right the first time, for you continue to lie. Do you even KNOW how to tell the truth? Or can you only lie?

No, I tell the truth. What I have illustrated in my posts is your lack of consideration for authorship when posting articles online that support your positions. When using a source it is important that one considers both the character and intentions of the author. You choose to post from a Russian propaganda site which cares to uplift Russian ideals while disparaging America. While, the one article you posted from Pravda spoke to your distain for America, had you considered what other interests Pravda supports. No, because if you did, you would have realized that Pravda does not support your ideas and is in fact very much against the success of the state of Israel because it is a strong ally of America.

That of course is the real sticking point. You will go to a propaganda arm of the Kremlin to seek an article which disparages America. All while Russia is actually the antagonist of Israel and America has been a strong and faithful ally of Israel. Amazing, talk about living in an upside down world.
 
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BlandOatmeal

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What will Armageddon be like?

There are two directions in which one can err, with apocalyptic prophecies: You can predict things as happening either too soon or too far in the future. The latter is the safest bet, but the former is best for getting a cult following (It is advised that such cult leaders have secret bank accounts overseas, up-to-date passports, and investments in real estate somewhere to cushion their "great disappointments").

I don't want a cult following, which makes the current events on this planet a little bit distressing; because they are pointing towards an Armageddon happening fairly soon. First of all, let's look at the timing:

1. The Turkish attack on Israel should set the clock at about T-7, or perhaps a little longer. That attack will have to be preceded by

0. the overthrow of Assad, it seems; for then, Turkey would be able to ally itself with Iran, Sudan and Libya (Sudan is already an Iranian ally, and Libya could come on board at the drop of a hat). This could all happen in one year or less; in fact, it could happen in weeks. Conservatively, then, we are at T-8 or a little longer.

2. because of the "week of years" (i.e. 7 years) nature of end-times prophecies, I suspect that the final "time, times and half a time" aka "42 months" aka "1260 days" (3½ years) will overlap the 7 years of the Ezekiel 38 prophecy, in which Israel is burning the weapons captured from the Turks, Iranians et al. What are those weapons? Uranium fuel rods? Who knows? What matters here is that Israel will be be burning them for 7 years before Messiah comes. Because the final 3½ years also ends at the coming of Messiah, we can reckon that at T-3½ years, or, say, 4½ years from now or perhaps a little later, Antichrist will come to power.

In all likelihood, Antichrist will be the next American President -- not Obama, unless Pres. Obama accomplishes some sort of coup. That makes the coming of Antichrist somewhere around 2015 or a little later, and Armageddon in 2019 or 2020.

3. Armageddon, around, say, 2019-2024. What will the stock market be like then? If it follows the trend of the past hundred years -- going up and down in, say, 35 year cycles, 2019-2024 should be analagous to 1984-89, years of prosperity.

Seeing that we're already tens of trillions of dollars in the hole and plunging deeper every year, the only way I can see prosperity coming is with the use of funny money. The Bible tells us what that funny money will be like:

Rev 13
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

This is the ultimate in online banking, point-of-purchase inventory, Homeland Security invasiveness, the whole nine yards; and yes, the late 20-teens looks like a very realistic target date for the technology needed. Heck, my public library can already scan my books as I'm carrying them out the door, to see if they've been checked out or not. All we need is an international security scare, to make sure everyone gets the mark (so that they can be "secure", along with the full-body searches and scans we already have at airports), and Voila! Instant funny money, Big Brother (aka Big Nanny), everything you always wanted and more -- MUCH more.

All that should take a little while to absorb. Before I close, let me just do a few more lookupa about this "mark":

Rev 16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

This tells us that:

a. getting the mark is VOLUNTARY, and that
b. it is connected with WORSHIP of the new Caesar, and
c. damned if you do; and

Rev 19
[20] And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

...much the same as Rev 16:2

Marshlewis, what do you think of all that? Reality is stranger than fiction, eh. Isn't it strange, that in the 1900+ years since that prophecy was given, we have never had a world-wide "mark" currency like this? (This is NOT the old German "mark" we're talking about); yet today, when the rest of the pieces also seem to be coming together for the first time (such as the Gog coalition, and the nuclear war prophesied in Zech 14), we also have at our disposal, for the very first time in history, we now have the technology AND ACCOMPANYING CIRCUMSTANCES, such as a world-wide "Terrorism" scare, to bring it about?

Man! That John the Revelator was better than L. Ron Hubbard and H. G. Wells all rolled into one! (not to mention George Orwell, my favorite).

Shalom shalom :wave:
 
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BlandOatmeal

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While I've got the Bible open, I should look at the rest of the story:

Rev 16
[1] And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
[2] And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
[3] And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
[4] And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
[5] And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
[6] For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

That's a scripture that the "rapture" crowd should look into. It says "They" have shed the blood of the saints and prophets, referring to people alive at the time of the end. This points to a slaughter of the "saints and prophets" in the end (i. e. our) times. The Rapture set believe that "we" (unbelievers need not apply nor comment) will certainly go through a great tribulation; and if we escape the plague of blood, it might not be because of a rapture, but rather because we have been killed.

Rev 16
[7] And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
[8] And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
[9] And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
[10] And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
[11] And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Isn't God merciful? Even during the last plagues, he will not force anyone to accept Him. Right sporting of Him, eh, Val?

Rev 16
[12] And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
[13] And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
[14] For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
[15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
[16] And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

That puts a date on these things: "Armageddon" is, indeed, the battle of Zech 14 -- as the esteemed "Interpreter" has already told us.

Rev 16
[17] And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
[18] And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
[19] And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
[20] And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
[21] And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

Ah! The freedom continues! Freedom to blaspheme at will! That will be a wondrous time for unbelievers, a time to give full vent to their spleens!

Meanwhile, Babylon is mentioned IN THIS CONTEXT.

That's noteworthy. I still haven't quite figured "Babylon" out. She is the Great Harlot, which makes me think she is a woman who had great beauty, but sold it cheap. Some have called Babylon the Apostate Church, and this description seems to fit her in the "harlot" category. Other descriptors have Babylon as a physical city, a great center of commerce and riches in the earth. That might seem to indicate North America, Europe and the margins of East Asia, or a city that somehow embodies the above. But those places contain the great Western Powers of the past century, to whit,

1. The United States
2. The UK & British Empire £
3. France
4. Italy
5. Germany
6. Japan
7. Spain
8. Portugal
9. Netherlands
10. Belgium.

Between them, those countries ruled all the world except the Shanghai Council area, an area of secondary importance.

Other countries in the world with great wealth are mostly either NATO members, allies of NATO members:

Luxembourg, £ Qatar, Norway, £ Singapore, £ Kuwait, £ Brunei, Switzerland, £ UAE, Austria, £ Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, £ Canada, £ Australia, Finland, Equatorial Guinea, Iceland, Japan, EU, £ Bahamas, £ Cyprus, S. Korea, £ New Zealand, £ Oman

That's a list according to PPP, ranked richest to poorest of the residue of countries. Altogether, the picture is the same: North America, Europe, the East Asian-Oceania margin and perhaps one or two other small countries. "Babylon", whoever she is, is identified with the above -- as, of course, is the "Beast that comes out of the Sea", upon which she rides.

"Babylon", then, seems to represent not only the apostate Church, but also the PEOPLE of that church, who collectively have become the great ones of the earth. Note also that Babylon is called the MOTHER of harlots. If she represents the Church of Rome, then, notice that her children (the Anglican Church, Lutheran Church, etc.) are also called "harlots", or, by analogy, "apostates".

All of these will be remembered for God's wrath at Armageddon.


Supper's on.

Shalom shalom :wave:
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Pss 22
[26] The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the LORD that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

Ah! I did eat, and am truly satisfied with dinner. Praise God! :clap:

Back to "Great Babylon, Mother of Harlots". I am curious about her. There is a subtle distinction between the nations that fight against God's people at Armageddon:

Zech 14
[1] Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[2] For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

The enemy, as shown here, seems to include all the nations of the earth.

Sexh 14
[6] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
[7] But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light...
[12] And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

This, of course, describes the effects of nuclear weapons. The prophecy does not specify all the nations of the world here, but instead "all... that have fought against Jerusalem"

It might be that some or many nations are excluded here. Let me list some of the major contributors to recent "Zechariah 14-type" adventures by the UN, NATO, etc.:

US (Gulf War I, Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
UK (Gulf War I, Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Canada (Gulf War I, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Denmark (Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
France (Gulf War I, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Italy (Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Netherlands (Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Spain (Iraq War, Afg. War, Kosovo)
Australia (Iraq War, Afg. War)
Czech (Afg. War, Kosovo)
Georgia (Iraq War, Afg. War)
Germany (Afg. War, Kosovo)
Qatar (Gulf War I, Libya)
Norway (Afg. War, Kosovo)
Poland (Iraq War, Afg. War)
Sweden (Afg. War, Libya)
Turkey (Afg. War, Kosovo)
UAE (Gulf War I, Libya)

Most of these are likely to be involved in a direct attack on Israel as well. Egypt, Syria, Jordan and Lebanon are also likely to be involved, as staging areas, along with Saudi Arabia, Cyprus and Greece. Russia may also take part, as a "Quartet" member. The bottom line is that I don't expect every nation to be physically present, or to be destroyed by nuclear weapons.

Who, you may wonder, will throw the first nuke? That's a good question. Israel, of course, is suspected to have up to hundreds of nukes, and has delivery systems that could easily reach all of Europe and the Middle East, and, to some extent, North America. They also have some very quiet, nuclear-capable submarines, satellites circling the globe, and probably more ingenuity than any country on earth.

Israel isn't the only one with nukes, though; the US, Russia, Britain, France and several Asian countries also have them. Any one of these can make an opportunistic strike on any other. Remember, we are living in a world that is "Post-Loyal". Zech 14 says,

Zech 14
[13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.

I think it's interesting that the most likely belligerent countries are also Christian countries. I don't know how "Babylon the Great" fits in here, though.
 
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princesa

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Ezekiel 35

New International Version (NIV)

A Prophecy Against Edom

35 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, set your face against Mount Seir; prophesy against it 3 and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am against you, Mount Seir, and I will stretch out my hand against you and make you a desolate waste. 4 I will turn your towns into ruins and you will be desolate. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
5 “‘Because you harbored an ancient hostility and delivered the Israelites over to the sword at the time of their calamity, the time their punishment reached its climax, 6 therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I will give you over to bloodshed and it will pursue you. Since you did not hate bloodshed, bloodshed will pursue you. 7 I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go. 8 I will fill your mountains with the slain; those killed by the sword will fall on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines. 9 I will make you desolate forever; your towns will not be inhabited. Then you will know that I am the Lord.
10 “‘Because you have said, “These two nations and countries will be ours and we will take possession of them,” even though I the Lord was there, 11 therefore as surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I will treat you in accordance with the anger and jealousy you showed in your hatred of them and I will make myself known among them when I judge you. 12 Then you will know that I the Lord have heard all the contemptible things you have said against the mountains of Israel. You said, “They have been laid waste and have been given over to us to devour.” 13 You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it. 14 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. 15 Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’”
 
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BlandOatmeal

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Hello, Princesa

Edom was forcibly converted to Judaism during Hasmonean times, before Jesus was born. At that time, it was located considerably north of where it had been in Ezekiel's time. Most of it was in the Negev, now part of Israel; and the descendants of the Edomites are mostly Jews (King Herod was an Edomite Jew). Prophecies about Edom are therefore moot in the literal sense, and can only be interpreted allegorically.

The Jews have a lively tradition of interpretation of Edomite prophecies -- all of them, as far as I can see, very fanciful. The basis of their interpretations is that the "Edomites" of prophecy are actually the Christians.

I don't agree with the Jewish sages. In my book, the Edomites simply are no more: The prophecies of their destruction have all come true:

"I will make Mount Seir a desolate waste and cut off from it all who come and go."

Done.

"I will treat you in accordance with the anger and jealousy you showed in your hatred of them and I will make myself known among them when I judge you."

Done; although the haters of Israel today will certainly also be judged, as Edom was.

"You boasted against me and spoke against me without restraint, and I heard it. 14 This is what the Sovereign Lord says: While the whole earth rejoices, I will make you desolate. 15 Because you rejoiced when the inheritance of Israel became desolate, that is how I will treat you. You will be desolate, Mount Seir, you and all of Edom. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’"

This was prophesied about some people posting on this board, if they do not repent -- those who long to see Israel desolate.

Shalom shalom :wave:
 
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BlandOatmeal

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I see you take that stuff really serious?

Freya will not allow the christian god to harm her wonder of life. She will smash him down to the roots of Yggdrassil.

Yes, Erik. There are things that I take seriously -- The Bible, certainly; also traffic laws, a healthy respect for the law of gravity and such like. By doing so, I have had an adventurous, interesting, loving and healthful 64 years, long enough to see my children's children, to see my children healthy and provided for, and to be able to end each day with thankfulness and contentment.

Being serious about the right things pays dividends. And by the way, if you aren't serious about the right things, I guarantee you will be overserious about the wrong things. You might even become an Atlas, continually burdened down with the weight of the world. I don't wish that on you or anyone.

Shalom shalom :wave:
 
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princesa

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@ Bland

Interesting.:)

The country of Edom was founded by Jacob's brother Esau. He picked up the nickname "Edom" or "Red" when he sold half of his massive inheritance for a simple bowl of red bean stew.
Edom was located in the region to the southeast of Israel. Mount Seir was a notable landmark in this region.
Edom and Israel, the people who descended from Jacob, never got along with each other. Skirmishes between the people happened often. Edom never got over its hatred of Israel. "Remember, O LORD, against the sons of Edom the day of Jerusalem, who said, "Raze it, raze it, to its very foundation!"" (psalm 137:7). In other words, Edom was cheering the Babylonians on. When Israel fell because of their sins, Edom rejoiced at its fall and took the opportunity to raid the country. They even helped the Babylonians collect the stragglers left from the war (Obadiah 10 - 15).


In delivering punishments to various nations, we learn that God often turns the sin against the sinner. Edom rejoiced at the emptying of Israel and five years later, Nebuchadnezzar swept through again, destroying several nations and emptying their lands -- including Edom. Here is what God promised Edom:
"Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, O Mount Seir, I am against you; I will stretch out My hand against you, And make you most desolate; I shall lay your cities waste, And you shall be desolate. Then you shall know that I am the LORD. Because you have had an ancient hatred, and have shed the blood of the children of Israel by the power of the sword at the time of their calamity, when their iniquity came to an end, therefore, as I live," says the Lord GOD, "I will prepare you for blood, and blood shall pursue you; since you have not hated blood, therefore blood shall pursue you. Thus I will make Mount Seir most desolate, and cut off from it the one who leaves and the one who returns. And I will fill its mountains with the slain; on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those who are slain by the sword shall fall. I will make you perpetually desolate, and your cities shall be uninhabited; then you shall know that I am the LORD" (Ezekiel 35:3-9).
God promised that travelers would no longer pass that way; the country would be so littered with slain that people would avoid the stench. But most importantly, God states that the country would never be rebuilt. Just as Edom had perpetual hatred for Israel, their country would remain perpetually empty.


I cant post links yet or I would have posted it



:sorry:
 
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princesa

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I see many getting saved as all this unfolds. It is quite sad that many suffer in it but God's peace and understanding will keep believers/christians strong and we wont worry or fall apart with the inevitable. And as precious lives are lost so will many be saved. Thank you Jesus
 
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razeontherock

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I see you take that stuff really serious?

Freya will not allow the christian god to harm her wonder of life. She will smash him down to the roots of Yggdrassil.

By Odin, how old was the tree you cut your runes from? And who's blood did you soak them in?
 
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ErikHeidenreich

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Yes, Erik. There are things that I take seriously -- The Bible, certainly; also traffic laws, a healthy respect for the law of gravity and such like. By doing so, I have had an adventurous, interesting, loving and healthful 64 years, long enough to see my children's children, to see my children healthy and provided for, and to be able to end each day with thankfulness and contentment.

Being serious about the right things pays dividends. And by the way, if you aren't serious about the right things, I guarantee you will be overserious about the wrong things. You might even become an Atlas, continually burdened down with the weight of the world. I don't wish that on you or anyone.

Shalom shalom :wave:

I still prefer our norse gods. None of them is a genocidal, evil, hatefilled monster like the "christian god"
 
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