So you discover that your wife used to be a man

Hands down I'd want out...for all the reasons Calvinator said.

Divorce !

Has this ever happened? I can see how it could if you waited until the wedding night to comsummate the marriage.....assuming it would be evident ??

Yes, it was in the news this week: Belgian discovers his wife used to be a man after 19 years - Telegraph

After 19 years of "marraige," he found this out.

The Christian Post reports that he ran off with her. If this is the case, I feel less bad for him, but still . . . (shudders). Of course, that was his second marriage, so who knows if that was even legit or not.

What I'm wondering is if the ex feels vindicated, or somehow worse about herself considering she lost the man she was with to . . . another man who was prettier (to him) than she was.

I think it would have to be something like this:

IT Crowd - I'm not most men . . . I'm very modern - YouTube

and might lead to this:

The IT Crowd - You are tearing me apart - YouTube
link that one, because of a word at the end.....

This is why you meet the family.

That would never happen to me.

Hypothetically though, I would have to actually be married to know how I would respond.

I'd want out, asap. You'd hope your husband would be honest about something like that before marriage ever even came up.

Ethnog said:

I would be more upset and hurt by the lies then anything.

Click to expand...

This.

I mean, I understand why somebody would feel the need to lie about that. It's a touchy subject and they may fear they'd be rejected (and this thread just confirms that they would lol). But it's me we're talking about. I don't really care...If I'm in love with somebody, and obviously I would be in this situation as I married them, I'm in love with them, the mix of things that would, to me, make up somebody's soul...Their personality, the way they are, their awareness, their perception of things, the memories and experiences have formed all that.

I just can't bring myself to care if they had a sex change. A sex change has absolutely no bearing on the soul or the spirit, the personality, who somebody is. It's only a physical adjustment to make somebody feel more comfortable in the body they have. Whether they'd told me before or now, it wouldn't make a difference because it just doesn't matter.

It would just be upsetting to find out that for some reason, they felt the need to lie to me about it, when I should be the one person in the world that they can trust with that information. And like I said, I understand the motivation for lying, it's just that I personally try to be accepting and supportive of people who are going through that, because they usually don't find acceptance anywhere else. So to find out that my own spouse felt the need to lie would feel like being stabbed and make me wonder where I went wrong to make them feel I couldn't be trusted.

K9_Trainer said:

I just can't bring myself to care if they had a sex change. A sex change has absolutely no bearing on the soul or the spirit, the personality, who somebody is. It's only a physical adjustment to make somebody feel more comfortable in the body they have. Whether they'd told me before or now, it wouldn't make a difference because it just doesn't matter.

It would just be upsetting to find out that for some reason, they felt the need to lie to me about it, when I should be the one person in the world that they can trust with that information. And like I said, I understand the motivation for lying, it's just that I personally try to be accepting and supportive of people who are going through that, because they usually don't find acceptance anywhere else. So to find out that my own spouse felt the need to lie would feel like being stabbed and make me wonder where I went wrong to make them feel I couldn't be trusted.

Click to expand...

Say you kissed a guy who turned out to have been born a girl. You wouldn't feel dirty at all?

Divorce, because it was based all on a lie and it would just be so full of EWWWWWWWWW!!!





Not to mention the fact that the song "dude looks like a lady" would bring flash backs worse than those of Nam.

Annulment based on fraud since it might go the "essence of the marriage", particularly if it impacts reproduction.

Neve said:

Annulment based on fraud since it might go the "essence of the marriage", particularly if it impacts reproduction.

Click to expand...

It impacts reproduction. Just about guaranteed. I imagine they can engineer genitalia to "look like, feel like" the real thing, but hard-wiring all the stuff that has to work right to produce offspring-- that might be a little harder to accomplish. I suspect medical science hasn't gotten that far yet that a former man, now a woman can get pregnant or that a former woman, now a man can cause that to happen.

It occurs to me now that I think of it that this could explain some recent horror stories in the news. A pregnant woman is killed in the last few weeks of pregnancy and her baby is cut out of the womb, and across town a "new mother" has a baby that isn't hers and she previously didn't have the signs of pregnancy that should be expected..... The horrors that happen when deception has to be carried to term.

i kissed a girl and a liiiiiked it
oh oh oh

You freak out, feel violated because not only have you had sex with someone that used to be a man, they haven't even told you about it, and then try not to feel violated for having your trust completely wrecked.

Sketcher said:

Say you kissed a guy who turned out to have been born a girl. You wouldn't feel dirty at all?

Click to expand...

Nope, I don't see why I would if I were attracted to them and liked them. Whether they had a sex change at some point in their life before I met them doesn't really change anything.

I would feel gross if I were to kiss somebody I was not attracted to.

FTM surgery is more difficult than MTF, and indeed if you're rather experienced with penises you may find things slightly odd but then given the great variety already present in the penises of biological men unless you're actively looking for signs that your partner used to be a woman you're unlikely to jump to the assumption that they have undergone gender reassignment surgery. If you have very little experience at all and are as sheltered as some individuals in various Christian circles appear to be then what would they actually know? Depending on the surgery the individual may be left with a micro-penis or a functioning penis that carries with it a lot of risks in regards to sensation and other such things.

And really getting to know their family and friends won't really help you. Depending on the family they may be as dedicated to maintaining the appearance that their child has always been one gender as your spouse is at making sure you never find out about their past. You may not have the opportunity to interact with their birth family if they are no longer connected because of the transition, and are you going to back out of something because their biological family are not present? Friends may be nothing but supportive and refuse to get involved as it's not their place to comment, and yes whilst you as the individual who suddenly discovered their past may feel betrayed ... I don't know. I guess some would just go "so what?". I say so what.

People say things all the time like they're this big awful secret and they're really only as much of an issue as you make it. Obviously it's a big issue for some people, and I understand that, I do. But personally the fact I loved them enough to commit to them outweighs anything else. They are who they are, they may have failed to disclose part of their past but that does not change who they are. I love them. Revealing they were born female would not change that. I made a vow. A promise. Out of love. That's all there is to it.

Hypothetically speaking.

I understand why people would have an issue with it. Everyone has a different perspective.

This may blow some of your minds, but contrary to what the world would have you believe, you can't change your sex. Genital surgery only changes the outside. Hormone therapy does not change the inside any differently than psychologically re-balancing a psychopath does. It warps and twists into something unrecognizable, but it does not change ones real gender.

Any Christian that believes otherwise is taking a very interesting (read: wrong) stance when it comes to an understanding of scripture and sovereignty of God.

Such a situation would be very real and legitimate grounds for immediate divorce. In fact, I would counsel the unwitting party to remove themselves from the (revealed) homosexual relationship.

Just because I like playing devil's advocate here, androgen insensitivity syndrome. Let's say someone with this condition wants to undergo reassignment to become a man. Is it still sinful by this measure, or is remaining as they were born (physically female or intersexed, genetically XY) what's sinful? According to this sort of focus, where is the line drawn between being born as one sex or the other? With surgery, their outward appearance would match their chromosomes.

(Assuming, of course, that hormone therapy would even work in this case, given the insensitivity, instead of having to rely solely on surgery)


To quote Wikipedia:

Estimates for the incidence of androgen insensitivity syndrome are based on a relatively small population size, and thus are known to be imprecise.[1] CAIS is estimated to occur in 1 out of every 20,400 46,XY births.[100] A nationwide survey in The Netherlands based on patients with genetic confirmation of the diagnosis estimates that the minimal incidence of CAIS is 1 in 99,000.[63] The incidence of PAIS is estimated to be 1 in 130,000.[101] Due to its subtle presentation, MAIS is not typically investigated except in the case of male infertility,[83] and thus its true prevalence is unknown.[2]

Click to expand...

Qyöt27;61896179 said:

Just because I like playing devil's advocate here, androgen insensitivity syndrome. Let's say someone with this condition wants to undergo reassignment to become a man. Is it still sinful by this measure, or is remaining as they were born (physically female or intersexed, genetically XY) what's sinful? According to this sort of focus, where is the line drawn between being born as one sex or the other? With surgery, their outward appearance would match their chromosomes.

(Assuming, of course, that hormone therapy would even work in this case, given the insensitivity, instead of having to rely solely on surgery)


To quote Wikipedia:

Click to expand...

This is actually what was going through my mind too. Gender and sex are not so cut and dry...Sometimes the gender you are, what you feel or what you identify as, doesn't match your sex, what you physically are. And if you bring genetics into it, you can be genetically one sex, but biologically another, and you may identify your gender as either one. Sometimes people aren't born with genitalia that are clearly male or female. A lot of times during infancy, genital surgery will be done to make the baby one sex or the other without actually KNOWING what gender (or sometimes even sex) the baby actually is. There are legit reasons for sex changes, or genital correction surgery.