Yo, why do Catholics call the pope "holy father" when...?

Calebt said:

Hey bros and sis, It says in the Scriptures that you should call no man on this Earth - Father. I do not understand this at all. I am not here to entice, just to have a discussion. Personally, I think it's deceiving for a man to be called "holy father" and accept praise and worship. Christ came into the world to abolish all these rules and traditions when he rebuked the Pharisees for their man-made laws. I know God works in EVERY religion to let people know that Christ is the way, the truth, the light but I do not believe it is right for a man to be called "holy father". So I would just like to have discussion about this and let people know that what they follow - is nowhere to be found in the Scriptures, it is man-made tradition. No man is in place of Christ - no man but I always remember in my heart to love and to show compassion! Wahooo!! Praise the one, true and Only Father - God and his Only Son Jesus Christ forever and ever. Amen!

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I at least have a partial answer. The scripture in question, if taken literally means that none of us can call ourselves teachers or masters/instructors either..

“But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah."
(Matthew 23:9-10 NIV)

I'm assuming you have a male parent. If we are to call no man on earth our father, what do you call your male parent? Mother?

Jesus in this passage is speaking hyperbolically---just as He was when He said if your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. He was using inflated language to make a didactic point, and that point is, while you can show respect and reverence for men, make sure you pay reverence and respect to God first.

Besides which, if we are to call no man on earth "father", then why does Paul say "I became your father through the Gospel" in 1 Corinthians 4:15? He says in Philemon 10 that he became Philemon's father. In 1 Timothy 1:2 and Titus 1:4, he calls them his "children" in the Faith. If Paul has "children", then he must be a "father", because he certainly isn't a "mother", now, is he?

HEsTiLLALiVe: I would caution you about what you post in the Catholic forum. The rules clearly state that you can discuss, but you cannot debate, and you certainly cannot make statements such as you did in your first sentence of the post above. Be careful, or you'll end up getting in trouble with the mods for breaking the rules.

Calebt said:

Christ came into the world to abolish all these rules and traditions when he rebuked the Pharisees for their man-made laws.

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He also told his disciples to follow the words of that sat on the Seat of Moses but not to be hypocritical such as they were. His gripe seemed to be more with the behavior of the leadership, not with Torah observance.

It is only later, after he is resurrected, that you start to see it said that the Law was no longer something necessary.

Please, anybody correct me if I am not remembering the New Testament properly. It isn't something I study.

There is a sort of language used here.

"Father" can be attributed to the Godhead's Holy Title and of His priests who carry out His will.

EDIT: Think of poetry where words are with meanings outside of its usual sense. Like poetry, you can give one word a depth.

Example: Though the flowers wither, the air still moves as wind yet its source is not known.

StThomasMore said:

Please stop spelling Jesus name wrong. The real aramaic spelling is Yeshua, not yahushua.

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Not trying to be too nitpicky, but it's a transliteration not a spelling. I know in Hebrew to English transliteration there is some leniency, but yeah, the whole adding "Yah" to the beginning is some fool-hearty attempt to make the name connect greater to G-d when never in history was a Hebrew boy ever named "Yahushua". Joshua/Yeshua yes, but not that other... thing.

How about "Mokhsheem, hizheer sakhanah"?

Supposedly Hebrew for "Danger, beware of land mines".

When Jesus said not to call anyone on earth "Father," he wasn't referring to titles, but to whom we look to for our needs, which should be God the Father.

The Pope is called the "Holy Father," because he is the vicar of Christ on earth, as St. Peter was.

It is not a reference to the personal spirituality of the Pope, but of the position he represents in the Church of Jesus Christ.


Jim

I think the most eye-opening thing for me is how many times in the epistles, especially those of St. John, refer to those who they are addressing, "children" or "little children". Now, what kind of male figure refers to his subjects as children?

tadoflamb said:

I think the most eye-opening thing for me is how many times in the epistles, especially those of St. John, refer to those who they are addressing, "children" or "little children". Now, what kind of male figure refers to his subjects as children?

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Children of faith, not of physical stature.

Jim

Personally, I think it's deceiving for a man to be called "holy father" and accept praise and worship.

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Since this has not been covered yet I feel its important to state that Catholics do not worship their Pope. We can venerate them, and we certainly respect their authority as Vicar of Christ; but no orthodox Catholic prays or gives worship to a living or dead Pope as if they are a demi-god in of themselves.

I'm always weary of threads that start with "yo!"

Show it to me in tha BEYE-BUL! If it not in da BEYE-BUL, I won't believe it!

Seeing my old protestant self in posts like this is embarrassing. Forgive me for sounding high and mighty, or like I'm looking down on him and thinking "Thank you, Lord, that I am not like him!" It's not my intention.

Other people have already answered or linked to good answers. This is a very common objection but easy to demolish.

Now it is up to you, Cabebt, to listen to our side of the story with an open mind. I commend your love for Jesus but it's time to actually consider our claims and start to look seriously at the oldest and only true branch of the Christian religion!

John the Roman said:

Show it to me in tha BEYE-BUL! If it not in da BEYE-BUL, I won't believe it!

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Would you like a way to prove that there has to be tradition at some level and prove it with the Bible?

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I'm always weary of threads that start with "yo!"

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That's what I thought too. It's just bad English, unprofessional, and just sounds bad. I can't take any sentence with a word like "yo" in it seriously.

gurneyhalleck1 said:

I'm always weary of threads that start with "yo!"

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Unless those threads are in Spanish.
Yo is the Spanish word for "I".

Dylan Michael said:

Unless those threads are in Spanish.
Yo is the Spanish word for "I".

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Hey Dylan. Haven't seen you in a while. Love the user pic.

Vicar of Christ

(Latin Vicarius Christi).
A title of the pope implying his supreme and universal primacy, both of honour and of jurisdiction, over the Church of Christ. It is founded on the words of the Divine Shepherd to St. Peter: "Feed my lambs. . . . Feed my sheep" (John 21:16-17), by which He constituted the Prince of the Apostles guardian of His entire flock in His own place, thus making him His Vicar and fulfilling the promise made in Matthew 16:18-19.
In the course of the ages other vicarial designations have been used for the pope, as Vicar of St. Peter and even Vicar of the Apostolic See (Pope Gelasius, I, Ep. vi), but the title Vicar of Christ is more expressive of his supreme headship of the Church on earth, which he bears in virtue of the commission of Christ and with vicarial power derived from Him. Thus, Innocent III appeals for his power to remove bishops to the fact that he is Vicar of Christ (cap. "Inter corporalia", 2, "De trans. ep."). He also declares that Christ has given such power only to His Vicar Peter and his successors (cap. "Quanto", 3, ibid.), and states that it is the Roman Pontiff who is "the successor of Peter and the Vicar of Jesus Christ" (cap. "Licet", 4, ibid.). The title Vicar of God used for the pope by Nicholas III (c. "Fundamenta ejus", 17, "De elect.", in 6) is employed as an equivalent for Vicar of Christ.



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Vicar of Christ

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Jim

Long story short: Don't take it literally!