Does believing in evolution contradict Christianity?

LittleLambofJesus · Nov 22, 2012

MrJDSmith said:
inspired not given
but if you wish to call man(who wrote the bible) God that is up to you.

How could it be written if it wasn't given by God or seen by man? Did man just write it on his own?

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

Exodus 17:14 Then said Yahweh unto Moses--"Write this as a remembrancer in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Jeshua--that I will, wipe out the remembrance of Amalek from under the heavens".

Revelation 1:10 I was in Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet,
11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last", and What you see, write! in a book and send [it] to the seven Assemblies which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia and to Laodicea"

.

Gottservant · Nov 22, 2012

If you believe in nature and Evolution, you are rejecting nature in holiness without works, for the sake of process.

Therefore given that no man can reject a thing and not turn to something else, without dying, you are departing from faith (as a man, without the holiness of nature, having the strength to undertake a process) for the sake of belief that has at least in part manifest in the work of your process.

Here's the rub, if you do this without principle, you will pevert your work (because of the failing of the weakness of your flesh) and fail to believe (because without principle you cannot die in the Lord and your works will not follow after you, without them following you into Heaven, you will not see them, and by the Power of God which is all pervasive, you will curse them).

So if you do works in the name of Evolution without principle, you will die.

If you do no works, in the name of Evolution, but still believe it, and die, you will die the second death.

Only principle can guide you to the needed Witness, which will sustain you in the trial of trying to reach from Earth to Heaven (for whatever you believe).

Without Witness, you have nothing significant.

Without Principle, Witness or Significance, you will be forgotten.

ChristianT · Nov 22, 2012

Gottservant said:
If you believe in nature and Evolution, you are rejecting nature in holiness without works, for the sake of process.

Therefore given that no man can reject a thing and not turn to something else, without dying, you are departing from faith (as a man, without the holiness of nature, having the strength to undertake a process) for the sake of belief that has at least in part manifest in the work of your process.

Here's the rub, if you do this without principle, you will pevert your work (because of the failing of the weakness of your flesh) and fail to believe (because without principle you cannot die in the Lord and your works will not follow after you, without them following you into Heaven, you will not see them, and by the Power of God which is all pervasive, you will curse them).

So if you do works in the name of Evolution without principle, you will die.

If you do no works, in the name of Evolution, but still believe it, and die, you will die the second death.

Only principle can guide you to the needed Witness, which will sustain you in the trial of trying to reach from Earth to Heaven (for whatever you believe).

Without Witness, you have nothing significant.

Without Principle, Witness or Significance, you will be forgotten.

GIST version: "If you think evolution accurately explains the natural [physical] world, you can't believe in Jesus and thus cannot be saved."

Support: Metaphysics.

TheGMan · Nov 22, 2012

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that G-d might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts. For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity."

Keachian · Nov 22, 2012

I think it's strange that I disagree with the creationists on more than one point of theology, are there any monergistic creationists in the thread?

Resha Caner · Nov 22, 2012

spitoutthekoolaid said:
Random mutations, the origin of origins, unexplained physical phenomena ... on the most basic, no labels attached levels ... the skeptically minded scientist would need to acknowledge the existence of a causality that is not "classical" per se, of which agencies with will and intent are able to interact with our own "classical causality" and that one, through some mechanism.

Yes, I would agree. Though to be fair to the skeptics, it's not really our place to project our interpretations onto them. I don't like it when people do it to me.

On a second matter, you seem to understand my points better than anyone here at CF ever has. As such, I would caution you to beware your sanity.

Third ... cool screen name.

Resha Caner · Nov 22, 2012

progmonk said:
... are there any monergistic creationists in the thread?

Um. Well. I believe God created the universe, but I'm not a garden-variety creationist ... 6000 years, biologists are all wrong, etc.

And I'm a Confessional Lutheran, which bears some strong resemblances to monergism, but isn't monergism.

So, I guess I'm close ... and yet probably too quirky in my position to satisfy you.

spitoutthekoolaid · Nov 22, 2012

Resha Caner said:
Yes, I would agree. Though to be fair to the skeptics, it's not really our place to project our interpretations onto them. I don't like it when people do it to me.

Indeed ... and typically when I'm getting ready to give an account of "woo" to a skeptic, I try to let the account speak for itself, rather than say, "Now this means that, and that means this ..."

Cuz I don't like it when people do it to me either

. Gotta put my filters on to interpret what they're saying lol ..

On a second matter, you seem to understand my points better than anyone here at CF ever has.

*fist bump*

As such, I would caution you to beware your sanity.

Been there done that

Third ... cool screen name.

Green was such a tasty flavor ;-)

Gottservant · Nov 22, 2012

ChristianT said:
GIST version: "If you think evolution accurately explains the natural [physical] world, you can't believe in Jesus and thus cannot be saved."

Support: Metaphysics.

No, if you think you can get away with believing Evolution but do not mutate or assimilate (adapt) something that saves a soul, Jesus will not recognize you, when you are in Hell.

You might be the most saved of all of us, but even you will not want it, without the Love that only Jesus can give.

ChristianT · Nov 22, 2012

Gottservant said:
No, if you think you can get away with believing Evolution but do not mutate or assimilate (adapt) something that saves a soul, Jesus will not recognize you, when you are in Hell.

You might be the most saved of all of us, but even you will not want it, without the Love that only Jesus can give.

I don't see what evolution has to do with the spiritual, as you seem to keep using words out of context (mutating [something] for salvation).

Also, it seems like disbelieving in evolution is something you must do in order for Jesus work to be effective, according to this quoted text. Is this really what you believe?

Gottservant · Nov 22, 2012

ChristianT said:
I don't see what evolution has to do with the spiritual, as you seem to keep using words out of context (mutating [something] for salvation).

Also, it seems like disbelieving in evolution is something you must do in order for Jesus work to be effective, according to this quoted text. Is this really what you believe?

I like this post, because it quotes me meaningfully, while posing a challenge that is directly theory for theory, or theology for theory how ever you want to put it.

I think that the answer asked for is only slightly different, from what is already believed, and I need time to think about, whether there is indeed a wise answer.

Gottservant · Nov 22, 2012

Ok I have more clarity now.

Salvation is necessary for meaning.

If you replace Salvation with Evolution, because of dishonour or whatever reason, the meaning of what you are doing is lost.

The meaning being lost is not the end, if you can do a work, which justifies you without it (not without anything just without whatever you didn't believe in on the basis of meaning, for example the will of God is meaningful).

Disbelieving in Evolution doesn't reduce the immanence of losing meaning if you believe in it, but it does create a space in which you may think or reason about what it is that you must actually do on the basis of what actually is meaningful.

As I said, in its current form, Evolution assimilates and adapts nothing, because it believes in nothing but itself, for no reason, whether ("or" it thinks "not") it will be forgotten.

If you are a believer, you can't afford to even come close to being forgotten.

Trogool · Nov 22, 2012

Gottservant said:
Ok I have more clarity now.

Salvation is necessary for meaning.

If you replace Salvation with Evolution

Yeah so no one does that...

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Gottservant · Nov 22, 2012

Trogool said:
Yeah so no one does that...

Ok.

So Salvation has a prior commitment.

In other words, "work already" commenced.

If you perceive that there is work that will not be done, unless you believe in Evolution, that is between you and God.

Not as a matter of Honour, not as a matter of Principle, not as a matter of Belief, not as a matter of Discernment.

Between you and me though, I'm not really interested in any work that doesn't fulfil these criteria.

Please tell me, how you plan to continue adapting this message?

Trogool · Nov 22, 2012

Gottservant said:
Ok.

So Salvation has a prior commitment.

In other words, "work already" commenced.

If you perceive that there is work that will not be done, unless you believe in Evolution, that is between you and God.

Not as a matter of Honour, not as a matter of Principle, not as a matter of Belief, not as a matter of Discernment.

Between you and me though, I'm not really interested in any work that doesn't fulfil these criteria.

Please tell me, how you plan to continue adapting this message?

I plan on continuing to not take seriously the false dichotomy you and others create between scientific reality and Christianity

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Gottservant · Nov 23, 2012

Trogool said:
I plan on continuing to not take seriously the false dichotomy you and others create between scientific reality and Christianity

You will hear the words "the Kingdom of Heaven" but will not get in.

That's not a problem if you don't care to know where you are going (in darkness), don't follow the meaning of the Word (in pain), and don't recognize the authority of God (in suffering).

This is based on the word of Jesus that he who puts his hand to the plough and turns back, is not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Simultaneously puttting the words "false" and "dichotomy" together with "you" and "others", and "create" then "between" in preference to science, with reality and Christianity, by implication without even God, means that you have no interest in returning to the Kingdom of Heaven, whenever your work, whether for Evolution or anything else, is done.

It is not too late to give Glory to God.

Gottservant · Nov 23, 2012

For what its worth, if you believe your parents are still with God, you are less likely to choke and burn, when the word is needed, by a factor of about 100.

Just having money, will buy you something, but I don't like your odds of getting a factor of 10 out of it.

Fail on these two though, and it is a definite 0 (zero) - don't ask me, Ask Jesus.

Keachian · Nov 23, 2012

Gottservant said:
You will hear the words "the Kingdom of Heaven" but will not get in.

That's not a problem if you don't care to know where you are going (in darkness), don't follow the meaning of the Word (in pain), and don't recognize the authority of God (in suffering).

This is based on the word of Jesus that he who puts his hand to the plough and turns back, is not fit for the Kingdom of Heaven.

Simultaneously puttting the words "false" and "dichotomy" together with "you" and "others", and "create" then "between" in preference to science, with reality and Christianity, by implication without even God, means that you have no interest in returning to the Kingdom of Heaven, whenever your work, whether for Evolution or anything else, is done.

It is not too late to give Glory to God.

That's not what Trogool said

I have also never met a theistic evolutionist who does not give glory to God

Gottservant · Nov 23, 2012

progmonk said:
That's not what Trogool said

Only you did not quote him, I did, so of the two of us only I can be assumed to be the authority. The Devil regards everything else as laziness.

I have also never met a theistic evolutionist who does not give glory to God

You make no distinction between theistic evolutionists who believe their parents have gone to God and those who are blind to the fact that their living parents are held in derision by the theory they espouse in concert with "the name" "of God".

A fool assumes everyone takes an insult the same way, a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] welcomes further insults

Keachian · Nov 23, 2012

Gottservant said:
Only you did not quote him, I did, so of the two of us only I can be assumed to be the authority.

I didn't quote him but it is quite obvious to anyone at all that you are twisting his words.

The Devil regards everything else as laziness.

The one with the forked tongue, who quotes everything from scripture out of context? If I can see through your misuse of scripture I'm on my way to being able to do the same for the devil.

You make no distinction between theistic evolutionists who believe their parents have gone to God and those who are blind to the fact that their living parents are held in derision by the theory they espouse in concert with "the name" "of God".

I have no idea what the problem you're making out is. The problem is not about the salvation of ones parents, but the glorifying of God by the believer You are trying to make the claim that theistic evolutionists do not glorify God, I haven't seen any evidence of such. All theistic evolutionists believe that God is involved in creation, all of them, so glory ultimately rests back with God.

A fool assumes everyone takes an insult the same way, a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] welcomes further insults

This has no relevance to the topic at hand, please stay on topic.

Does believing in evolution contradict Christianity?

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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