MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation

rollinTHUNDER · Nov 18, 2012

The seven year tribulation is very possibly the greatest misconception of End-time Bible prophecy. Many Bible teachers, including most of our well known scholars today, assume that the seven year tribulation is another term for Daniel’s 70th week. This assumption has brought much confusion to our understanding of how the end-times will play out at the conclusion of this current age, known as the age of grace. The apostle Paul warned us that the time would come when myths and/or fables would be taught instead of the truth of God’s word, and I believe we have been living in those days for quite some time now.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

What started out as a simple assumption has become a great misconception that has distorted the perception of countless believers, making it very difficult to have a solid understanding of the end-times. It has even muddied the water of all rapture theories (pre-, mid- and post-tribulation rapture), which were designed to more easily classify the various rapture views or positions held by individual scholars. Have you ever tried looking for something in muddy water? Unless the object you’re seeking is very close to the surface, you can forget about seeing whatever you’re looking for. Likewise, so goes our vision of the end-times when we start jumping to conclusions by adding our assumptions, misconceptions and pre-conceived beliefs to the truth we are given in God’s word. This is not a good mix.

It’s true that Daniel’s 70th week will last seven years (Dan. 9:24-27). Seventy (70) weeks of years were determined for the people of Israel (70×7=490 years), beginning from the command to rebuild Jerusalem, which was destroyed by the Babylonians, until the anointing of the Most Holy (Christ). However, Christ was cut off (crucified) after only 69 weeks (483 yrs), which left the 70th week or final seven years remaining to be fulfilled before He returns. These are the final seven years the world will witness just before the second coming of Christ, when the King of kings and Lord of lords returns with His saints to rule and reign on the earth for 1000 years, which is commonly known as the millennial Reign of Christ.

Now, since we know that Christ was, in fact, cut off after 69 weeks (483 yrs) according to Scripture, we also know that Daniel’s 70th week (final 7 yrs) still remains and has not yet been fulfilled. These final seven years must be fulfilled according to Scripture, however, the same can not be said of the so-called seven year tribulation. Although these two terms are commonly used interchangeably, they are not and can not be the same thing. Seven years remain unfulfilled, but there is no mention of a seven year tribulation anywhere in God’s word. There is simply no such thing. Now let me tell you why I believe this, then I’ll provide the Scripture to support my claim.

There are two glaring contrasts here. The days of tribulation actually begin in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week (7 years), after the abomination of desolation, according to Scripture and most scholars agree. But not only does the tribulation begin at the mid-point of the final seven years, but Scripture also tells us that the days of tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect. Daniel’s 70th week (7 yrs), on the other hand, can not be cut short at all, unless, of course, the prophet Daniel gave us a false prophecy, which is not even remotely possible. We know that Daniel could not have been a false prophet, because Christ, Himself, points back to Daniel’s prophecy in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

Daniel 9:24-26Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
[25] So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. [26] Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

In the passage above we see (7) sevens [49 yrs.], then another (62) sevens [434 yrs.], which equal 69 weeks or 483 years and then Christ was cut off, which leaves the final seven years or Daniel’s 70th week remaining (see passage below). Also notice the abomination of desolation begins at the mid-point or middle of the final seven years.

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Daniel 11:35
And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Here’s more about the abomination of desolation in the passages below.

Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:36
And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Now lets take a look at the abomination of desolation, along with the time remaining to the end:

Daniel 12:11-12
And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Now here’s the kicker. From the passage of Scripture above, we can understand that Daniel’s 70th week will not be shortened at all. From the abomination of desolation in the middle of the seven years, we see not only the alloted 1260 days, 42 months and/or 3 1/2 years, but we also see an extension of 30 days (1290), with another addition of 45 days (1335) as well. Scripture is not clear as to what will happen during these two extensions, but it should be as plain as day that the days of Daniel’s 70th week will not and can not be shortened at all, and that the end must come at the time appointed. However, the same can not be said of the tribulation, which proves that the two are as different as night and day. Now let’s take a look at what the Bible has to say about the tribulation.

Matthew 24:14-22
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

In the passage above, Christ, Himself, is telling us that the tribulation will begin after the abomination of desolation occurs, at the mid-point of Daniel’s 70th week of seven years, just as Daniel said it would. It shows the same exact starting point, but there is something here that is also very different. The days of tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect, otherwise no flesh would be saved. This creates another problem for scholars assuming the tribulation is seven years in duration. And not only are the days shortened, but Christ also tells us that no one knows when the days of tribulation will be shortened, not Christ, nor the angels, but only His Father in heaven knows. Two things are certain here. The tribulation is not a seven year period of time and Daniel’s 70th week can not be shortened.

It seems that some scholars have created for themselves another tribulation out of thin air. They want us to believe the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week are the tribulation, and the second 3 1/2 years are the great tribulation. They describe the first half as a pseudo-peace or false peace, and the second half as the great tribulation. The trouble is that a pseudo-peace would not resemble the tribulation that Christ speaks of in any way. Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention anywhere in Scripture of a tribulation occurring before the abomination of desolation. Christ has referred to this terrible time as both, the great tribulation (Matt. 24:22), and the tribulation (Matt. 24:29).

Since this thread shows what the tribulation is not, next time I’ll discuss what the tribulation actually is. Stay tuned.

Biblewriter · Nov 18, 2012

rollinTHUNDER said:
MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation

The seven year tribulation is very possibly the greatest misconception of End-time Bible prophecy. Many Bible teachers, including most of our well known scholars today, assume that the seven year tribulation is another term for Daniel’s 70th week. This assumption has brought much confusion to our understanding of how the end-times will play out at the conclusion of this current age, known as the age of grace. The apostle Paul warned us that the time would come when myths and/or fables would be taught instead of the truth of God’s word, and I believe we have been living in those days for quite some time now.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. 4 They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.

What started out as a simple assumption has become a great misconception that has distorted the perception of countless believers, making it very difficult to have a solid understanding of the end-times. It has even muddied the water of all rapture theories (pre-, mid- and post-tribulation rapture), which were designed to more easily classify the various rapture views or positions held by individual scholars. Have you ever tried looking for something in muddy water? Unless the object you’re seeking is very close to the surface, you can forget about seeing whatever you’re looking for. Likewise, so goes our vision of the end-times when we start jumping to conclusions by adding our assumptions, misconceptions and pre-conceived beliefs to the truth we are given in God’s word. This is not a good mix.

It’s true that Daniel’s 70th week will last seven years (Dan. 9:24-27). Seventy (70) weeks of years were determined for the people of Israel (70×7=490 years), beginning from the command to rebuild Jerusalem, which was destroyed by the Babylonians, until the anointing of the Most Holy (Christ). However, Christ was cut off (crucified) after only 69 weeks (483 yrs), which left the 70th week or final seven years remaining to be fulfilled before He returns. These are the final seven years the world will witness just before the second coming of Christ, when the King of kings and Lord of lords returns with His saints to rule and reign on the earth for 1000 years, which is commonly known as the millennial Reign of Christ.

Now, since we know that Christ was, in fact, cut off after 69 weeks (483 yrs) according to Scripture, we also know that Daniel’s 70th week (final 7 yrs) still remains and has not yet been fulfilled. These final seven years must be fulfilled according to Scripture, however, the same can not be said of the so-called seven year tribulation. Although these two terms are commonly used interchangeably, they are not and can not be the same thing. Seven years remain unfulfilled, but there is no mention of a seven year tribulation anywhere in God’s word. There is simply no such thing. Now let me tell you why I believe this, then I’ll provide the Scripture to support my claim.

There are two glaring contrasts here. The days of tribulation actually begin in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week (7 years), after the abomination of desolation, according to Scripture and most scholars agree. But not only does the tribulation begin at the mid-point of the final seven years, but Scripture also tells us that the days of tribulation are cut short for the sake of the elect. Daniel’s 70th week (7 yrs), on the other hand, can not be cut short at all, unless, of course, the prophet Daniel gave us a false prophecy, which is not even remotely possible. We know that Daniel could not have been a false prophet, because Christ, Himself, points back to Daniel’s prophecy in Matthew 24 and Mark 13.

Daniel 9:24-26Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.
[25] So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. [26] Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.

In the passage above we see (7) sevens [49 yrs.], then another (62) sevens [434 yrs.], which equal 69 weeks or 483 years and then Christ was cut off, which leaves the final seven years or Daniel’s 70th week remaining (see passage below). Also notice the abomination of desolation begins at the mid-point or middle of the final seven years.

Daniel 9:27
He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’ In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

Daniel 11:35
And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

Here’s more about the abomination of desolation in the passages below.

Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

Daniel 11:36
And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

Now lets take a look at the abomination of desolation, along with the time remaining to the end:

Daniel 12:11-12
And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days. 12 Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days.

Now here’s the kicker. From the passage of Scripture above, we can understand that Daniel’s 70th week will not be shortened at all. From the abomination of desolation in the middle of the seven years, we see not only the alloted 1260 days, 42 months and/or 3 1/2 years, but we also see an extension of 30 days (1290), with another addition of 45 days (1335) as well. Scripture is not clear as to what will happen during these two extensions, but it should be as plain as day that the days of Daniel’s 70th week will not and can not be shortened at all, and that the end must come at the time appointed. However, the same can not be said of the tribulation, which proves that the two are as different as night and day. Now let’s take a look at what the Bible has to say about the tribulation.

Matthew 24:14-22
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. 15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand 16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.

In the passage above, Christ, Himself, is telling us that the tribulation will begin after the abomination of desolation occurs, at the mid-point of Daniel’s 70th week of seven years, just as Daniel said it would. It shows the same exact starting point, but there is something here that is also very different. The days of tribulation will be shortened for the sake of the elect, otherwise no flesh would be saved. This creates another problem for scholars assuming the tribulation is seven years in duration. And not only are the days shortened, but Christ also tells us that no one knows when the days of tribulation will be shortened, not Christ, nor the angels, but only His Father in heaven knows. Two things are certain here. The tribulation is not a seven year period of time and Daniel’s 70th week can not be shortened.

It seems that some scholars have created for themselves another tribulation out of thin air. They want us to believe the first 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s 70th week are the tribulation, and the second 3 1/2 years are the great tribulation. They describe the first half as a pseudo-peace or false peace, and the second half as the great tribulation. The trouble is that a pseudo-peace would not resemble the tribulation that Christ speaks of in any way. Furthermore, there is absolutely no mention anywhere in Scripture of a tribulation occurring before the abomination of desolation. Christ has referred to this terrible time as both, the great tribulation (Matt. 24:22), and the tribulation (Matt. 24:29).

Since this blog post shows what the tribulation is not, in my next post I’ll discuss what the tribulation actually is. Stay tuned.

The first half of Daniel's seventieth week is the time when the Antichrist makes war with the saints, and overcomes them, as we see in Revelation 13:7 and 20:4. The last half of this week is when the Assyrian overruns Israel, as detailed in Isaiah 7, 10, 14, and 30, and in Micah 5 and Nahum.

rollinTHUNDER · Nov 19, 2012

Biblewriter said:
The first half of Daniel's seventieth week is the time when the Antichrist makes war with the saints, and overcomes them, as we see in Revelation 13:7 and 20:4. The last half of this week is when the Assyrian overruns Israel, as detailed in Isaiah 7, 10, 14, and 30, and in Micah 5 and Nahum.

I can appreciate the fact that you didn't refer to the first half of Daniel's 70th week as the "tribulation," however, you are still speculating by adding assumptions here.

It appears to me that Rev. 13, which makes use of symbols, also shows another angle of the abomination of desolation.

Revelation 13:4-7
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

I don't see this happening in the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. It occurs in the middle, which triggers the beginning of the great tribulation, in which the days of tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect. That's when He will send His angels to gather His elect, those who are ready. Those saints that are not ready will be overcome (martyred) as indicated in Rev. 20:4, which also shows that the entire church will not go in the rapture.

wordsoflife · Nov 19, 2012

There is no such thing as a 7 year great tribulation.

Milan45 · Nov 19, 2012

Amen???

Biblewriter · Nov 20, 2012

rollinTHUNDER said:
I can appreciate the fact that you didn't refer to the first half of Daniel's 70th week as the "tribulation," however, you are still speculating by adding assumptions here.

It appears to me that Rev. 13, which makes use of symbols, also shows another angle of the abomination of desolation.

Revelation 13:4-7
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
[5] And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
[6] And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
[7] And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

I don't see this happening in the beginning of Daniel's 70th week. It occurs in the middle, which triggers the beginning of the great tribulation, in which the days of tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect. That's when He will send His angels to gather His elect, those who are ready. Those saints that are not ready will be overcome (martyred) as indicated in Rev. 20:4, which also shows that the entire church will not go in the rapture.

The reason I put the 42 months of the Antichrist in the first half of Daniel's seventieth week is because the great destroyer in the last half of the week is the Assyrian, not the Antichrist. These 42 months end when he actually sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. As a punishment for allowing this, God sends the Assyrian down to overrun Judea, which is now called Israel.

Comments about "the Assyrian" may be new to you, as very few writers since the nineteenth century seem to have even noticed what the scriptures say about this end time individual. But the scriptures about him are very explicitly stated in clear language. I referred to Isaiah 7, 10, 14, and 30, and in Micah 5 and Nahum. But the most plainly stated portions are Micah 5, and Isaiah 10:28-32, which even gives the daily progress of his advance on Jerusalem. No ancient Assyrian ever invaded Judea along the route detailed in this passage.

zeke37 · Nov 20, 2012

mass beheadings by the ac in the end times is not biblically supported
Rev20:4 referenes groups...the elect....both the dead and the ones alive at His coming

the dead ones= the martyrs, like john the baptist, beheaded...
the ones alive at His coming = those who won't take the mark or worship the beast...

AND is a figure of speech, used in Rev20:4 as it is used in the days of creation in Gen1
a seperator

Manasseh_ · Nov 20, 2012

All these verse show that the great tribulation lasts for only 3.5 years.................................

Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan_12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev_13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev_11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev_12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

now if this wasn't enough Daniel's prophecy gives a few more good clues

Dan_12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan_12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1290 days total time from the time when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies and the daily sacrifice is stopped then the abomination of desolation is set 30 days after............ and total time of 1335 days......another 45 days before Christ returns after tribulation

if the great tribulation were 7 years then the numbers would be either 84 months or 2520 days..........neither number is prophesied

a time, times and half a time 3.5 years, forty and two months 3.5 years .......a thousand two hundred and three score days 3.5 years, regardless of the wording it all shows 3.5 years

the great tribulation is 3.5 years NOT 7 years

Choose Wisely · Nov 20, 2012

Biblewriter said:
The reason I put the 42 months of the Antichrist in the first half of Daniel's seventieth week is because the great destroyer in the last half of the week is the Assyrian, not the Antichrist. These 42 months end when he actually sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. As a punishment for allowing this, God sends the Assyrian down to overrun Judea, which is now called Israel.

Comments about "the Assyrian" may be new to you, as very few writers since the nineteenth century seem to have even noticed what the scriptures say about this end time individual. But the scriptures about him are very explicitly stated in clear language. I referred to Isaiah 7, 10, 14, and 30, and in Micah 5 and Nahum. But the most plainly stated portions are Micah 5, and Isaiah 10:28-32, which even gives the daily progress of his advance on Jerusalem. No ancient Assyrian ever invaded Judea along the route detailed in this passage.

The Antichrist is the Assyrian and the eighth king. And he is of the seven, of which only six have come to this point. The rider on the white horse is the 7th king.

Biblewriter · Nov 20, 2012

Manasseh_ said:
All these verse show that the great tribulation lasts for only 3.5 years.................................

Dan_7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan_12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Rev_11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Rev_13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
Rev_11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
Rev_12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

now if this wasn't enough Daniel's prophecy gives a few more good clues

Dan_12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Dan_12:12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.

1290 days total time from the time when Jerusalem is surrounded by armies and the daily sacrifice is stopped then the abomination of desolation is set 30 days after............ and total time of 1335 days......another 45 days before Christ returns after tribulation

if the great tribulation were 7 years then the numbers would be either 84 months or 2520 days..........neither number is prophesied

a time, times and half a time 3.5 years, forty and two months 3.5 years .......a thousand two hundred and three score days 3.5 years, regardless of the wording it all shows 3.5 years

the great tribulation is 3.5 years NOT 7 years

Yes, the great tribulation will be 3-1/2 years, ut this is preceded by another 3-1/2 years, the first half of Daniel's seventieth week.

Biblewriter · Nov 20, 2012

Choose Wisely said:
The Antichrist is the Assyrian and the eighth king. And he is of the seven, of which only six have come to this point. The rider on the white horse is the 7th king.

It is extremely dangerous to attempt to draw doctrine from interpretations of mysterious symbols that are not explained in scripture. But there is safety in relying on the multitude of explicitly stated passages of scripture that are couched in clear, plain language.

Manasseh_ · Nov 21, 2012

Biblewriter said:
Yes, the great tribulation will be 3-1/2 years, ut this is preceded by another 3-1/2 years, the first half of Daniel's seventieth week.

your pretrib assumptions have no part in this prophecy.........Daniel's 70 week prophecy didn't foretell a 7 year tribulation, it was a prophecy to foretell Christ's first coming and it proved he is Messiah

if there were a 7 year tribulation then there would be prophecy of either 84 months and or 2520 days which doesn't exist in Biblical prophecy and it's contrary to what has been foretold

the beast is allowed power to rule only 42 months
the two witnesses preach against the beast for 42 months
the gentiles are allowed to lay siege on Jerusalem only 42 months

no prophecy exists of an 84month period of time............it is an invented doctrine of men

Choose Wisely · Nov 21, 2012

Biblewriter said:
It is extremely dangerous to attempt to draw doctrine from interpretations of mysterious symbols that are not explained in scripture. But there is safety in relying on the multitude of explicitly stated passages of scripture that are couched in clear, plain language.

You are saying that the Assyrian is not the Antichrist. I don't believe that you understand who the Assyrian is. I did notice that you posted Isaiah 14 as a referrence. Not only is the Assyrian mentioned, but the prophecy is against the King of Babylon. Do you consider the Assyrian and the King of Babylon to be the same?

Biblewriter · Nov 21, 2012

Choose Wisely said:
You are saying that the Assyrian is not the Antichrist. I don't believe that you understand who the Assyrian is. I did notice that you posted Isaiah 14 as a referrence. Not only is the Assyrian mentioned, but the prophecy is against the King of Babylon. Do you consider the Assyrian and the King of Babylon to be the same?

How could "the Assyrian" and the king of Babylon represent the same future leader when these were two different ancient kingdoms? Assyria was the northern half of today's Iraq, while Babylon was its southern half.

The map below shows the ancient Assyrian Empire, superimposed on the ancient Selucid empire, which came into existence several hundred years after the Assyrian Empire was defeated. Except for a few sparsely settled areas around the edges, these two ancient empires covered the same area. From this, we understand that "the Assyrian" of Isaiah, Micah, and Nahum is the same end time individual as "the king of the north" of Daniel 11, for throughout Daniel 11:5-34, every act attributed to "the king of the north" was actually committed by one of the Selucid Emperors.

This conclusion is strongly backed by the fact that in Isaiah 7:17-19 we see that Judea (which is now called Israel) will be overrun by swarms from Assyria and Egypt at the same time, resulting in Judea being consumed by "the king of Assyria," while in Daniel 11:40 we see it attacked by "the king of the north" and "the king of the south," (Egypt) at the same time, with "the king of the north" continuing on down into Egypt, conquering many other countries as he goes. It should be noted that although both Assyria and Egypt attacked Judea in ancient times, they were never both in Judea at the same time.

The prophecies about the Assyrian are not couched in symbolic language, but are explicitly stated in plain language. According to Nahum, he will arise out of Nineveh, whose modern name is Mosul, the center of the insurgency in Iraq. (compare verses 1 and 11 of Nahum 1.) And according to Isaiah 10:24-25 and Nahum 1:12-13, Israel's many long ages of affliction will end in his destruction. Isaiah 10:28-32 even gives the daily progress of his advance on Jerusalem. It should be noted here that the part described here was not followed by any ancient Assyrian army.

Micah 5:5-7 explicitly tell us that when this happens, Judea will respond by wasting the land of Assyria with the sword, and no ancient Israeli army ever even got near Assyria.

But the Antichrist does not attack Judea at all. He is its last ungodly ruler, who will sit as God in the temple of God, showing himself that He is God. He is the great false Messiah, who will deceive the Jews

Choose Wisely · Nov 21, 2012

Biblewriter said:
How could "the Assyrian" and the king of Babylon represent the same future leader when these were two different ancient kingdoms? Assyria was the northern half of today's Iraq, while Babylon was its southern half.

The map below shows the ancient Assyrian Empire, superimposed on the ancient Selucid empire, which came into existence several hundred years after the Assyrian Empire was defeated. Except for a few sparsely settled areas around the edges, these two ancient empires covered the same area. From this, we understand that "the Assyrian" of Isaiah, Micah, and Nahum is the same end time individual as "the king of the north" of Daniel 11, for throughout Daniel 11:5-34, every act attributed to "the king of the north" was actually committed by one of the Selucid Emperors.

This conclusion is strongly backed by the fact that in Isaiah 7:17-19 we see Judea overrun by swarms from Assyria and Egypt at the same time, resulting in Judea being consumed by "the king of Assyria," while in Daniel 11:40 we see it attacked by "the king of the north" and "the king of the south," (Egypt) at the same time, with "the king of the north" continuing on down into Egypt, conquering many other countries as he goes.

The prophecies about the Assyrian are not couched in symbolic language, but are explicitly stated in plain language. According to Nahum, he will arise out of Nineveh, whose modern name is Mosul, the center of the insurgency in Iraq. (compare verses 1 and 11 of Nahum 1.) And according to Isaiah 10:24-25 and Nahum 1:12-13, Israel's many long ages of affliction will end in his destruction. Isaiah 10:28-32 even gives the daily progress of his advance on Jerusalem. It should be noted here that the part described here was not followed by any ancient Assyrian army.

Micah 5:5-7 explicitly tell us that when this happens, Judea will respond by wasting the land of Assyria with the sword, and no ancient Israeli army ever even got near Assyria.

But the Antichrist does not attack Judea at all. He is its last ungodly ruler, who will sit as God in the temple of God, showing himself that He is God. He is the great false Messiah, who will deceive the Jews

So, who is this king of Babylon?

Biblewriter · Nov 21, 2012

Choose Wisely said:
So, who is this king of Babylon?

It is my opinion, and I wish to stress that it is only an opinion, that Isaiah 14:4-23 refers to the "Babylon the great" of the Revelation, or religious Rome. (It is obviously symbolic language, for it calls him Lucifer.) But it could refer to an end time leader of the southern portion of today's Iraq. The city of Babylon is gone, and no prophecy speaks of its ever being revived. But the ancient land of Babylon is still there, and will be ravaged by "the Assyrian," for as the "little horn" of Daniel 8:9-11. This "little horn cannot represent either the Roman power or the Russian power, for it came "out of one of" the four horns that resulted from the breakup of Alexander's Empire. And Alexander never conquered Rome or any part of Russia. This "little horn" grows "exceedingly great" toward the south, (Babylon, or the southern part of modern Iraq) toward the east, (ancient Persia, or present day Iran) and toward the pleasant land (which obviously means Israel.)

Choose Wisely · Nov 21, 2012

Is there anything that you can do with these verses?

Isaiah 14
7 The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

rollinTHUNDER · Nov 21, 2012

Biblewriter said:
Yes, the great tribulation will be 3-1/2 years, ut this is preceded by another 3-1/2 years, the first half of Daniel's seventieth week.

Yes, but the first 3 1/2 years are not the tribulation.

Biblewriter · Nov 22, 2012

rollinTHUNDER said:
Yes, but the first 3 1/2 years are not the tribulation.

The first 3-1/2 years are tribulation only for those that refuse to worship the Antichrist. The last 3-1/2 years are tribulation for everyone.

But remember that the entire 7 years (seventieth week,) like the rest of the seventy weeks, is determined upon Daniel's people (the Jews) and upon Daniel's holy city (Jerusalem.) See Daniel 9:24. It is not "tribulation" for the entire world, although the disasters that lead up to it will be widespread.

rollinTHUNDER · Nov 22, 2012

Biblewriter said:
The first 3-1/2 years are tribulation only for those that refuse to worship the Antichrist. The last 3-1/2 years are tribulation for everyone.

But remember that the entire 7 years (seventieth week,) like the rest of the seventy weeks, is determined upon Daniel's people (the Jews) and upon Daniel's holy city (Jerusalem.) See Daniel 9:24. It is not "tribulation" for the entire world, although the disasters that lead up to it will be widespread.

How is it that the people are forced to worship the beast in the first 3.5 years, when he has not yet claimed to be God, which happens at the mid-point of Daniel's 70th week, during the abomination of desolation? This is a GIGANTIC assumption on your part. Good luck finding scripture to back this belief. And there is no scripture that mentions any tribulation before the abomination of desolation.

MISCONCEPTION: The Seven Year Tribulation

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not the evil king Manasseh

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not the evil king Manasseh

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