question for Muslims

TG123

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Salaam Alaikum, I hope you are doing well. I was wondering what people's thoughts are on this.

I recently borrowed a Quran from the library, and am reading through it. It is Yusuf Ali's translation, although I will be posting multiple translations of these 2 verses. I am quoting from the site The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

Surah 5:51 states that Christians and Jews should not be taken as allies, because they are friends and protectors of each other.

Surah 5:51


5_51.png
Sahih International
O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

Muhsin Khan
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers, etc.), they are but Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust).

Pickthall
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Yusuf Ali
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

Shakir
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Dr. Ghali
O you who have believed, do not take to yourselves the Jews and the Nasara (Christians) as patrons; some of them are patrons to some (others). And whoever of you patronizes them, then surely he is one of them. Surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

According to the tafsir of Ibn Abbas, who knew Muhammad, they follow each others' religions openly and secretly and are friends with each other:

(O ye who believe!) in Muhammad and the Qur'an. (Take not the Jews and Christians for friends) seeking their assistance and help. (They are friends one to another) He says: some are followers of the religion of others in secret and in the open, just as they are friends of each other. (He among you) O group of believers (who taketh them for friends) seeking their assistance and help (is (one) of them) in alliance and is not included in Allah's protection and safety. (Lo! Allah guideth not) to His religion and proof (wrong-doing folk) the Jews and Christians.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ


Surah 5:64 states that God has cast emnity and hatred between Jews and Christians, and that it will last until the Day of Judgement. It comes in context of chapter 5, which is full of writings about both Jews and Christians.


5:64 to top

5_64.png
Sahih International
And the Jews say, "The hand of Allah is chained." Chained are their hands, and cursed are they for what they say. Rather, both His hands are extended; He spends however He wills. And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war [against you], Allah extinguished it. And they strive throughout the land [causing] corruption, and Allah does not like corrupters.

Muhsin Khan
The Jews say: "Allah's Hand is tied up (i.e. He does not give and spend of His Bounty)." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for what they uttered. Nay, both His Hands are widely outstretched. He spends (of His Bounty) as He wills. Verily, the Revelation that has come to you from Allah increases in most of them their obstinate rebellion and disbelief. We have put enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Every time they kindled the fire of war, Allah extinguished it; and they (ever) strive to make mischief on earth. And Allah does not like the Mufsidun (mischief-makers).

Pickthall
The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will. That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them, and We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguisheth it. Their effort is for corruption in the land, and Allah loveth not corrupters.

Yusuf Ali
The Jews say: "Allah's hand is tied up." Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief.

Shakir
And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers.

Dr. Ghali
And the Jews have said, "The Hand of Allah is shackled." Shackled are their hands, and they are cursed for what they have said. No indeed (but) both His Hands are out spread, He expends how He decides. And indeed what has been sent down to you from your Lord will definitely increase many of them in all-in ordinance and disbelief; and We have cast among them enmity and abhorrence till the Day of the Resurrection. Whenever they kindle fire for war, Allah will extinguish it. And they endeavor (diligently) in the earth doing corruption; and Allah does not like the corruptors.



According to Ibn Abbas, the emnity exists between Christians and Jews, and is manifested in killing and destruction.



(The Jews) Finhas Ibn 'Azura', the Jew (say: Allah's hand is fettered) and cannot give. (Their hands are fettered) they neither do good nor spend in good causes (and they are accursed) they are punished by the imposition of the capitation tax on them (for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty) His hands are wide open for both the righteous and the sinner. (He bestoweth as He will) if He wishes, He gives, and if He wishes, He withholds. (That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord) i.e. the Qur'an, by Allah it (is certain to increase the contumacy) constancy upon disbelief (and disbelief) firmness in disbelief (of many of them) of the disbelievers, (and We have cast among them) the Jews and Christians (enmity) manifested in killing and destruction (and hatred) in their hearts (till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war) whenever they unite to kill Muhammad out of disobedience, (Allah extinguisheth it) Allah makes them disunite and oppose each other. (Their effort is for corruption in the land) they cause corruption in the land through preventing people from Muhammad and by inviting to other than Allah, (and Allah loveth not corrupters) the Jews and their religion.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs - ÇáÊÝÇÓíÑ


This is my question: How can Christians and Jews be both friends and even follow the others' religion while simultaneously hating each other and being full of emnity towards one another? According to Ibn Abbas, this emnity and hatred is manifested in killing and destruction, and it will be like that until the day of resurrection.

At what point in history have Christians and Jews both hated and killed each other, and at the same time were friends and acted as allies against Muslims?

Shukran was Allahma3k. Salaam.
 

TG123

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"some of them are friends of some" can be the translation.
Does the Arabic say that, or does it say they are friends of each other? Only one translation states "some of them". Also, Ibn Abbas (who knew Muhammad and his companions personally) translates both surahs are referring to Christians and Jews in general, not some.
 
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AskTheFamily

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Does the Arabic say that, or does it say they are friends of each other? Only one translation states "some of them". Also, Ibn Abbas (who knew Muhammad and his companions personally) translates both surahs are referring to Christians and Jews in general, not some.

Ba'thahum = some of them

A direct translation would be "some of them"...but it can be taken as expression of generality as well.
 
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Sister of Faith

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I can see where is the confusion :scratch:
The word (بعضهم أولياء بعض) in [5:51] which was translated as "They are friends one to another." Does not mean that Christians are friends to Jew. But it means something different. It means that "some of the Jew are friends to some of the Jew" and "some of the Christians are friends to some of the Christians" and both of them (i.e. Christians and Jew) are against Muslims. Jew are enemies of Christians and Christians are enemies of Jew.
in verse [5:64] Allah says: (وألقينا بينهم العداوة والبغضاء إلى يوم القيامة) which was translated as "And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection." the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only as mentioned at the beginning of the same verse. because Jew are split into groups. or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say) as referred to verse [5:51].
To make this clearer, you may refer to verse [2:111]
2_111.png

"And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful.""
Tafsir is that Jew say:"None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew" and Christians say:"None will enter Paradise except one who is a Christian."
Jew will not say: "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." and Christians will not say" "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Christian or a Jew."
I got this tafsir from"Taysir Al Tafsir" by one of "our" scholars not available in English, unfortunately.
 
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TG123

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I can see where is the confusion :scratch:
The word (بعضهم أولياء بعض) in [5:51] which was translated as "They are friends one to another." Does not mean that Christians are friends to Jew. But it means something different. It means that "some of the Jew are friends to some of the Jew" and "some of the Christians are friends to some of the Christians" and both of them (i.e. Christians and Jew) are against Muslims. Jew are enemies of Christians and Christians are enemies of Jew.
in verse [5:64] Allah says: (وألقينا بينهم العداوة والبغضاء إلى يوم القيامة) which was translated as "And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection." the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only as mentioned at the beginning of the same verse. because Jew are split into groups. or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say) as referred to verse [5:51].
To make this clearer, you may refer to verse [2:111]
2_111.png

"And they say, "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." That is [merely] their wishful thinking, Say, "Produce your proof, if you should be truthful.""
Tafsir is that Jew say:"None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew" and Christians say:"None will enter Paradise except one who is a Christian."
Jew will not say: "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Jew or a Christian." and Christians will not say" "None will enter Paradise except one who is a Christian or a Jew."
I got this tafsir from"Taysir Al Tafsir" by one of "our" scholars not available in English, unfortunately.
Hi Sister of Faith,

Salaam Alaikum.

Thanks for the explanation and for taking the time to translate the tafsir into English. I really appreciate you doing that.

It seems you are stating that "they" could be a reference to Jews or Jews and Christians, right?

As you stated:

the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only as mentioned at the beginning of the same verse. because Jew are split into groups. or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say) as referred to verse [5:51].


How did you get "some of the Christians" and "some of the Jews", though? Neither Ibn Abbas (who knew Muhammad and his companions) or Ibn Kathir or Jalalayn used the word "some", they just used "Jews" or "Jews and Christians", depending on the tafsir.
 
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TG123

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Ba'thahum = some of them

A direct translation would be "some of them"...but it can be taken as expression of generality as well.
Hi AskTheFamily,

Thanks for your input. I am looking at a transliteration of the surah. Can you please tell me where you see "Ba'thahum"? Thanks.

Waqalati alyahoodu yadu Allahimaghloolatun ghullat aydeehim waluAAinoo bima qaloobal yadahu mabsootatani yunfiqu kayfa yashaowalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran waalqaynabaynahumu alAAadawata walbaghdaa ilayawmi alqiyamati kullama awqadoo naran lilharbiatfaaha Allahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardifasadan wallahu la yuhibbualmufsideen

http://quran.com/5/64
 
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AskTheFamily

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Hi AskTheFamily,

Thanks for your input. I am looking at a transliteration of the surah. Can you please tell me where you see "Ba'thahum"? Thanks.

Waqalati alyahoodu yadu Allahimaghloolatun ghullat aydeehim waluAAinoo bima qaloobal yadahu mabsootatani yunfiqu kayfa yashaowalayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka minrabbika tughyanan wakufran waalqaynabaynahumu alAAadawata walbaghdaa ilayawmi alqiyamati kullama awqadoo naran lilharbiatfaaha Allahu wayasAAawna fee al-ardifasadan wallahu la yuhibbualmufsideen

Surat Al-Ma'idah [5:64] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

I was referring to verse 5:51.
 
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Sister of Faith

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Hi Sister of Faith,

Salaam Alaikum.

Thanks for the explanation and for taking the time to translate the tafsir into English. I really appreciate you doing that.

It seems you are stating that "they" could be a reference to Jews or Jews and Christians, right?

As you stated:

the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only as mentioned at the beginning of the same verse. because Jew are split into groups. or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say) as referred to verse [5:51].


How did you get "some of the Christians" and "some of the Jews", though? Neither Ibn Abbas (who knew Muhammad and his companions) or Ibn Kathir or Jalalayn used the word "some", they just used "Jews" or "Jews and Christians", depending on the tafsir.
You are mixing up things!
When I said "It means that "some of the Jew are friends to some of the Jew" and "some of the Christians are friends to some of the Christians" I was referring to verse [5:51] and
When I said "the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say), I was talking about verse [5:64] them in "And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection."
 
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TG123

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I was referring to verse 5:51.
Sorry, I misunderstood.

Is this the word? baAAduhum

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo alyahooda wannasaraawliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdinwaman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha layahdee alqawma aththalimeen
 
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TG123

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You are mixing up things!
When I said "It means that "some of the Jew are friends to some of the Jew" and "some of the Christians are friends to some of the Christians" I was referring to verse [5:51] and
When I said "the pronoun "them" could refer to Jew only or could refer to (people of the book) Jew and Christians (as some scholars say), I was talking about verse [5:64] them in "And We have cast among them animosity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection."
OK, I see. So 5:51 is saying that some Christians like some Jews and Muslims shouldn't take some Christians and Jews for protectors, is that correct? Or does it say that Christians and Jews (not just some) should not be taken for protectors and friends?

Also, 5:64 is a reference to Christians and Jews in general, not just some, right? Am I understanding correctly? Thank you and salaam.
 
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AskTheFamily

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Sorry, I misunderstood.

Is this the word? baAAduhum

Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoola tattakhithoo alyahooda wannasaraawliyaa baAAduhum awliyao baAAdinwaman yatawallahum minkum fa-innahu minhum inna Allaha layahdee alqawma aththalimeen

Yes, that's the word. And np.
 
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