Things are looking bleak

ThatRobGuy · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
I have little interest in the opinion of a bunch of 200 years dead disaffected hemp farmers. Why anyone does is beyond me.

Obviously many others from the land down under must agree with you...thus the reason you guys lost the right to defend yourselves and get taxed like crazy...

Blayz · Nov 8, 2012

miniverchivi said:
Obviously many others from the land down under must agree with you[/quote

Dunno. The topic of dead US hemp farmers doesn't come up much in Australia.

thus the reason you guys lost the right to defend yourselves

Click to expand...

Ridiculous hyperbole aside, we didn't lose it, we chose societal safety as a higher priority.

and get taxed like crazy...

Click to expand...

Still less than you Yanks. And I work in Singapore, which has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Being Australian, I don't have to pay Australian tax. If I had the misfortune to be Yanklandian, I'd still have to pay US tax.

Which of us has the crazy tax again?

Come on, I just whacked your sacred cow. You can do better than this.

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
miniverchivi said:

Obviously many others from the land down under must agree with you[/quote

Dunno. The topic of dead US hemp farmers doesn't come up much in Australia.

Ridiculous hyperbole aside, we didn't lose it, we chose societal safety as a higher priority.

Still less than you Yanks. And I work in Singapore, which has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Being Australian, I don't have to pay Australian tax. If I had the misfortune to be Yanklandian, I'd still have to pay US tax.

Which of us has the crazy tax again?

Come on, I just whacked your sacred cow. You can do better than this.

Click to expand...

We tried - Obama won anyways.

ThatRobGuy · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
Dunno. The topic of dead US hemp farmers doesn't come up much in Australia.

Ridiculous hyperbole aside, we didn't lose it, we chose societal safety as a higher priority.

Still less than you Yanks. And I work in Singapore, which has some of the lowest tax rates in the world. Being Australian, I don't have to pay Australian tax. If I had the misfortune to be Yanklandian, I'd still have to pay US tax.

Which of us has the crazy tax again?

Come on, I just whacked your sacred cow. You can do better than this.

Hmmm...unless a lot has changed since this study was done (in 2009)
(Based on the US median income)

In the US:
$7410.35 (14.75% of income)

In AUS:
A$15249.70
or
US$9945.85 (19.8% of income)

Which income bracket are you referring to? It's certainly not the bracket of the average Joe from these numbers.

What societal safety are you referring to? Safety like, say, Norway who has one of the highest gun ownership rates in europe and one of the lowest crime rates?

or this kind
Crime up Down Under
BBC News | UK | Handgun crime 'up' despite ban

Banning guns in a country with already relatively low crime isn't evidence of that ban actually accomplishing anything.

No different then if I ruled a country with very low car accident rates, made stricter driving laws, and said "hey, look at how low the accident rates are!, my law worked"

Blayz · Nov 8, 2012

miniverchivi said:
Hmmm...unless a lot has changed since this study was done (in 2009)
(Based on the US median income)

In the US:
$7410.35 (14.75% of income)

In AUS:
A$15249.70
or
US$9945.85 (19.8% of income)

Without knowing the actual medians I don't know. But you are forgetting your state and local taxes, actually, you seem to be forgetting about your own posts from a few days ago, complaining about a 40% tax rate.

Australia doesn't have much in the way of state and local taxes. Federal tax is it...with a bit of medicare levy on top, which may or may not have already been included in your example.

What societal safety are you referring to? Safety like, say, Norway who has one of the highest gun ownership rates in europe and one of the lowest crime rates?

The kind where we have a lower gun homicide rate than the US. That one.

or this kind
Crime up Down Under

hahahahaha World Nut Daily. Really? That's your evidence??? I trust wnd about as far as I can comfortably spit a rat. Any overlap between their reporting and reality is coincidence.

Banning guns in a country with already relatively low crime isn't evidence of that ban actually accomplishing anything.

No different then if I ruled a country with very low car accident rates, made stricter driving laws, and said "hey, look at how low the accident rates are!, my law worked"

Blah blah blah. Back on topic, which was your worship of some dead people.

msbs said:
Because they were people that created a government whose powers were limited and the rights of just the white people that were it's citizens came before government power. And unfortunately, that's no longer true. They had a good idea, but it didn't last.

Fixed that for ya. Not convinced it was a good idea though.

ThatRobGuy · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
Without knowing the actual medians I don't know. But you are forgetting your state and local taxes, actually, you seem to be forgetting about your own posts from a few days ago, complaining about a 40% tax rate.

Australia doesn't have much in the way of state and local taxes. Federal tax is it...with a bit of medicare levy on top, which may or may not have already been included in your example.

The kind where we have a lower gun homicide rate than the US. That one.

hahahahaha World Nut Daily. Really? That's your evidence??? I trust wnd about as far as I can comfortably spit a rat. Any overlap between their reporting and reality is coincidence.

Blah blah blah. Back on topic, which was your worship of some dead people.

Fixed that for ya. Not convinced it was a good idea though.

I notice you ripped on the source about "crime up down under" by calling it world nut daily...yet you seem to have conveniently ignored the other source that I posted...you know, the article from BBC. Why don't you take a crack at that one?

As far as the taxes:
Income tax in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this link, along with 5 other sources are saying that that top tax rate in AUS is 45% (higher than ours)

Yes, you have a lower homicide rate than us, but I stated before, Norway has a lower homicide rate than you, and they have the highest gun ownership rate in Europe. (in fact, they have the 10th lowest homicide rate in the world.

Norway: 0.6% with all their guns (almost a third of them own guns)
You guys: almost double that with your gun ban

Now, address some facts this time around rather than trying to pass them off with "blah blah blah" just because you don't have a valid rebuttal.

If you don't like the WND as a source, then please address the BBC article and some of these other sources:

Crime climbs in Australia after widespread gun ban - Mauinews.com | News, Sports, Jobs, Visitor's Information - The Maui News

Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban - Austin gun rights | Examiner.com

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Mail Online

Australia experiencing more violent crime despite gun ban

praying · Nov 8, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
"its now clear that a majority feel dependence on government is a better option."

I am a democrat, I voted Obama, I don't think that way, and I don't know anyone who does.

I vote democratic for social reasons mostly.

Blayz · Nov 8, 2012

miniverchivi said:
I notice you ripped on the source about "crime up down under" by calling it world nut daily...yet you seem to have conveniently ignored the other source that I posted...you know, the article from BBC. Why don't you take a crack at that one?

There are two reasons I don't take a crack at it
Number 1: It's the UK, not Australia
Number 2: It's a derail. The issue at hand remains your worship of dead hemp farmers, not gun control.

As far as the taxes:
Income tax in Australia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this link, along with 5 other sources are saying that that top tax rate in AUS is 45% (higher than ours)

Yes, and as I said, federal tax is all there is, no state, local or anything else.

You do remember you bitter complaints from a few days ago right? About 40% tax rates in the US?

You are arguing against yourself.

Now, address some facts this time around rather than trying to pass them off with "blah blah blah" just because you don't have a valid rebuttal.

If you wanna start a gun control thread in an appropriate forum, go ahead. It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I am not going any further down that derailing rabbit hole.

EDIT: Having just checked the Oz median wage, my wife earns about triple, and her federal tax burden before tax breaks is about 30%..and in case you care, Here in Singapore I earn about 4x, and my tax burden is 10%.

praying · Nov 8, 2012

Redac said:

lol

praying · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
I have little interest in the opinion of a bunch of 200 years dead disaffected hemp farmers. Why anyone does is beyond me.

LOL

praying · Nov 8, 2012

Anovah said:
I'm going over the state line to smoke a joint, marry a dude (I'm not even gay), then opine about my "lack of freedom"

Wolseley · Nov 8, 2012

DollIsMine said:
I have great news: The US is still not a colony of Great Britain so the spirit of '76 lives on.

Yes, it does.

The only difference is that it's our own Federal government that's King George.

Jeffwhosoever said:
Sadly, those who voted for Obama will suffer the most from the coming storm.

And they will be the most confused when it happens. They won't be able to figure out "why".

ThatRobGuy · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
If you wanna start a gun control thread in an appropriate forum, go ahead. It has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, and I am not going any further down that derailing rabbit hole.

How strange, you were more than willing to jump in on the matter when you thought you had a valid point (and when you thought you had debunked my claim). As soon as I post actual numbers and a half dozen sources, now it's derailing and you don't want to discuss it in this thread.

You do remember you bitter complaints from a few days ago right? About 40% tax rates in the US?

You are arguing against yourself.

How am I arguing against myself?
I said that paying 40% of my income in taxes was too high.
I said your taxes were higher, and they are.

Your lower classes might pay less than our lower classes, however once you start to get into the middle class, that changes.

TLK Valentine · Nov 8, 2012

Wolseley said:
Yes, it does.

The only difference is that it's our own Federal government that's King George.

So we're our own worst enemy -- after all, who gave these fat cats the keys to the kingdom?

And they will be the most confused when it happens. They won't be able to figure out "why".

And nobody, but nobody, will be able to figure out "how" to stop it.

Wolseley · Nov 8, 2012

TLK Valentine said:
So we're our own worst enemy -- after all, who gave these fat cats the keys to the kingdom?

They did. They vote themselves raises, they vote themselves perks, they vote to opt themselves out of the fantastic health care plan that they demand the rest of us have....the list is endless.

We've just been stupid and lazy and let them get away with it.

TLK Valentine · Nov 8, 2012

Wolseley said:
They did. They vote themselves raises, they vote themselves perks, they vote to opt themselves out of the fantastic health care plan that they demand the rest of us have....the list is endless.

We've just been stupid and lazy and let them get away with it.

Took you a while, but you finally hit on where the blame really belongs.

Blayz · Nov 8, 2012

miniverchivi said:
How am I arguing against myself?
I said that paying 40% of my income in taxes was too high.
I said your taxes were higher, and they are.

Some of a marginal rates are higher, but our overall tax burden is lower, how is that so hard to understand? You earn 100K and pay 40%. If I earned 100K in Oz I'd be paying 24.5%

It's not rocket science.

Your lower classes might pay less than our lower classes, however once you start to get into the middle class, that changes.

Clearly it doesn't.

Still no word on your hemp farmers, I see. Indefensible, I guess.

Wolseley · Nov 8, 2012

TLK Valentine said:
Took you a while, but you finally hit on where the blame really belongs.

So, what do you suggest we do to rectify the situation and bring the Feddle Gummint back into line?

I can only think of two things that might do it....armed rebellion followed by popular revolution, or complete economic collapse followed by a military coup. Nothing else would have enough momentum to get the job done.

Enlighten me, O Sage. And don't tell me "we'll change it by voting". You know fully well we change absolutely nothing in the Feddle Gummint by means of voting.

AceHero · Nov 8, 2012

Blayz said:
I have little interest in the opinion of a bunch of 200 years dead disaffected hemp farmers. Why anyone does is beyond me.

KarateCowboy said:

EDIT:
I notice now that you are Australian. Please stay in Australia.

Click to expand...

How very welcoming of you!

christseeker45 said:
Democracy is dead, idiots liberals killed it.

tulc said:

wow. Lose a couple of elections and you think the country is dead/dying? Someone has a pretty high opinion of themselves.
tulc(perhaps more coffee is in order?)

Click to expand...

You're always looking for an excuse, aren't you?

Jeffwhosoever said:
Sadly, those who voted for Obama will suffer the most from the coming storm.

Why's that?

Blayz · Nov 8, 2012

Wolseley said:
I can only think of two things that might do it....armed rebellion followed by popular revolution, or complete economic collapse followed by a military coup. Nothing else would have enough momentum to get the job done.

Just so long as it involves homicidal violence, I guess. Guaranteed an armed uprising would result in US utopia.

Things are looking bleak

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