Optimax

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Why do ya think this information was given?


Job 1:4-5

4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
KJV

Do you see any relation to what the information given in the next verses?

:)
 
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Yahu

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Why do ya think this information was given?


Job 1:4-5

4 And his sons went and feasted in their houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.

5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
KJV

Do you see any relation to what the information given in the next verses?

:)
None! Job's children just got together to celebrate family member birthday celebrations. The 'every one his day' was their birthday. (Later Job curses his own birthday by those that 'raise leviathan'.) Job was making sure that his children were covered for any sin they committed while celebrating. I would assume there was drinking involved. He was just making a sin offering in case they committed some sin. Some see that as fear on Job's part, but IMO he is just doing what was prudent.
 
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Yahu

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some see "ghost" everywhere.;)

Yes, everywhere they are mentioned in scripture.

Job 26:4 To whom hast thou uttered words? and whose spirit came from thee?
5 Dead things (ghosts) are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
6 Hell is naked before him, and destruction (Abbaddon)hath no covering.


I was mistaken, the speaker is Job, not one of his friends. Job is accusing his friend of being under the influence of a demonic spirit and then states that 'dead things', ie 'shades of the dead'/'ghosts' are from waters(people) and inhabit other waters. He is accusing his friend of being inhabited by an ancestral spirit of the dead and speaking falsehood. Then Job goes on to speak of Hell and 'the destroyer', ie Abaddon. (Re 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.)

His friend Bildad also tells Job earlier to seek guidance from his ancestral spirits.

Job 8:8 For enquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers:
9 (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow)
10 Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart?


This is a part of the ancient paganism to seek spirit guides from ancestral spirits, ghosts. For they are much older and have more knowledge. Bildad tells him later to go to the pagan temples to get these spirit guides.

Then of course Job rebukes his friends for being under demonic spiritual influences and letting them speak through them. He is 'testing the spirit' behind their teachings and finding them in error just as we are commanded to do.

Job is riddled with spiritual and pagan references that are not easy to see unless you go back to the Hebrew and look for alternate translations and know the pagan references.
 
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Yahu

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What do ya think it was that Job feared.

Whatever it was he said it had come upon him!

Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me , and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. KJV
:)

He feared doing something offensive to Yah to give the enemy grounds to attack his household.

He goes on to say:
2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
...
14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
 
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Optimax

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What Job feared is revealed in the first chapter verse 5.

Job feared that his sons had sinned.

Because Job feared that his sons had sinned he continually offered burnt-offerings for them.


Job 1:5
and it cometh to pass, when they have gone round the days of the banquet, that Job doth send and sanctify them, and hath risen early in the morning, and caused to ascend burnt-offerings -- the number of them all -- for Job said, 'Perhaps my sons have sinned, yet blessed God in their heart.' Thus doth Job all the days.
YLT


These sons are grown men.

They have their own houses.

They are responsible for themselves before God.

Job was continually offering sacrifices because of his fear they had sinned against God.

Job realized that what he feared most had come upon him and said so.

Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. KJV

:)
 
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Yahu

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What Job feared is revealed in the first chapter verse 5.

Job feared that his sons had sinned.

Because Job feared that his sons had sinned he continually offered burnt-offerings for them.

No, what Job feared is in Job 1:1!

Not continually, every birthday. That is a yearly sacrifice for atonement which is exactly what the Hebrews did. Remember Yah had not set the day to do that atonement offering yet. There was no priesthood to do it for the nation. Now Job was of the priestly line of Shem/Eber. He was the priest of his family.

Job was doing the righteous thing. He was more righteous. Job feared Yah.

Job 1:1 There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.
 
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Yahu

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You think Job was afraid of God and God "whacked" Job
Job 3:25
For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me. KJV

Fearing Yah isn't about being afraid. It is about fear of the consequences of sin and is the beginning of wisdom and of course Yah didn't whack Job.

Job was a 'perfect and upright man' according to Yah. You try to paint him as operating in fear which is false. Fear and 'fear of Yah' are two different concepts. This is an example of a poor translation into English. 'Fear of Yah' is better translated as being reverent towards Yah.

Any father would fear the loss of his children. That is a normal fear of any parent.
 
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Optimax

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The thing that Job feared that came upon him was the fear he had for his children.

He was afraid It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.

Job was so afraid "Thus did Job continually".

Job did not trust God where his children were concerned.

Job 1:5
And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. KJV
 
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Faulty

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The thing that Job feared that came upon him was the fear he had for his children.

He was afraid It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.

Job was so afraid "Thus did Job continually".

Job did not trust God where his children were concerned.

Job 1:5
And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually. KJV

Well, by what you quoted, the thing he feared was not for his children. The thing he feared was his children sinned and cursed God in their hearts.

To say what he feared came upon him is to claim that his children sinned and cursed God, and that's not anywhere in the text that his children actually did these things.
 
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Optimax

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Job 2:3, God states He caused harm to Job without cause.

Job 9:17, Job states God harmed him without cause.


Job 2:3
And the Lord said to Satan, Have you considered My servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, one who [reverently] fears God and abstains from and shuns all evil [because it is wrong]? And still he holds fast his integrity, although you moved Me against him to destroy him without cause. AMP


What Job said is Job's opinion.
 
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Yahu

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Job 2:3, God states He caused harm to Job without cause.
I suggest you look at it closer. Yah is saying HaSatan is moving Yah to harm Job, not that Yah is the source of that harm but the desire of HaSatan. HaSatan is trying to get Job to fall into sin so Yah will harm him. Has Job sinned at this point? No.

Job 9:17, Job states God harmed him without cause.
You need to go back to the Interlinear. Here Job uses a different word translated as 'God'. He uses 'Elowahh' not 'Elohyim'. He uses 'Elohyim' when he is referencing 'God' not 'Elowahh'.

Job is referencing the pagan gods in this passage, not Yah starting at verse 13.

You really need to look at Job in the Hebrew words translated 'God'. Too many places 'God' is used incorrectly when it should be 'god, gods or goddess'. There are several gods discussed in the book of Job. Job's friends are pagans and follow other gods. Many times Job is talking about the error of those pagan gods. He KNOWS the attacks are from HaSatan, not Yah. That is clearly presented in Job.
 
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Yahu

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Job was so afraid "Thus did Job continually".

But that 'continually' was a yearly event after each ones birthday. It was a yearly sin offering which corresponds to Hebrew law.

Don't build doctrine out of ignorance because of a misunderstanding of the translation. There is NOTHING wrong with Job. Yah calls him 'perfect and upright'. To claim Job is in error for that is contrary to a direct statement of Yah. Job was following the laws of Yah in offering those sacrifices.
 
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Yahu

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It helps if you list out the attacks against Job.

1) Sheep destroyed
2) Camels stolen
3) Children killed
4) Servant claiming it was Yah that destroyed them
5) Wife enticing Job to curse Yah
6) Friends attempting to get Job to bow to pagan gods and preaching false doctrines
 
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Got this from a Hebrew student:

Job 2:3-7
3. "Yahweh He is saying to the adversary, 'You set your heart against My servant Job? There is none like him in the earth. A man flawless and upright fearing of Elohim and withdrawing from evil and still him holding fast in integrity of him, and you are inciting Me to swallow him up, destroy him for no reason?"

(The adversary has been trying to incite God to strike Job, but God says "No! Job is an upright flawless man and there is no reason for Me to strike him!")

4. The adversary he is answering Yahweh and he is saying, 'Skin for skin and all which to man he shall give up to his soul." (man will give anything up to a point, unless it will cost him his soul, unless it becomes too important)

5. However, please! You put Your hand and You strike him against his bone and against His flesh and see whether or not to Your face he shall bless You."

6. And Yahweh He is saying to the adversary, "Look at him! (an expression of surprise), in your hand and power surely even already. (he is already in your hand)

His soul, life, breath you hedge, preserve, save !" (Don't you take his life !)

7. And the adversary he is (going) forth from the face of Yahweh and he is smiting Job." (the adversary does the smiting, because God refuses)

That's what the original says, which leaves a lot to ponder about why Job was already in the adversary's hand.

But it's clear God didn't hand Job over to the adversary, and God didn't touch Job.
 
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