Obama's Progressive Gamble - over the wants/needs of Americans

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

"Mr. Obama has governed from the left not because he miscalculated his priorities but because these are his priorities. His first term is best understood as a race to put himself in the pantheon of the great progressive PresidentsWilson, FDR, LBJwho expanded the state's control over the private economy and over the wants and needs of the American middle class.

The price of this governing choice includes a weak recovery, achievements like ObamaCare that are unpopular, the loss of the House in 2010, and a polarized electorate. Unable to run on his record, he has conducted a low-down re-election campaign based on destroying his opponent's character. If the polls are right, even if he wins re-election, he will do so as the first President since Wilson to win with a smaller margin than he did the first time."

Review & Outlook: Obama's Progressive Gamble - WSJ.com

SnowCal · Nov 5, 2012

So you're saying Obama is like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and LBJ?

Did Obamacare just get compared to Social Security and Medicare?

That's high praise to most of us. With enemies like you, who needs friends?

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

Seems socialists all think alike.

TeddyReceptus · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
Seems socialists all think alike.

Yeah, maybe you should ask an older relative who relies on Medicare and SS. I bet they are raving socialists now!

That's why a true conservative would try to run on a platform to get rid of these things.

Oh, wait, no they will never do that! ^_^

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

Actually, they are not. When I saw the movie Obama2016, I was in a packed theater filled with retired Americans.

President elect Romney.

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
Actually, they are not. When I saw the movie Obama2016, I was in a packed theater filled with retired Americans.

President elect Romney.

Do those retired Americans look forward to the end of social security and medicare on principle?

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

TheOtherHockeyMom said:
Do those retired Americans look forward to the end of social security and medicare on principle?

No, because that ain't happening. They do look for to having social security for their grandchildren when they retire 20-30 years from now, unlike they would have with Obama.

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
No, because that ain't happening. They do look for to having social security for their grandchildren in 30 years, unlike they would have with Obama.

But if those are socialist programs, then why would a true Republican want to save them?

ETA: I'm not voting for him, but I have to admit that your oversized picture of Romney is one of the best shots I've seen of him. It's amazing what a bit of windblown hair does to improve ones look.

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

TheOtherHockeyMom said:
But if those are socialist programs, then why would a true Republican want to save them?

True Republicans are not against Social security and Medicare. They want to save it, not end it. Where was it again Obama is getting $800B to fund Obamacare? Um, Medicate, right?

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
True Republicans are not against Social security and Medicare. They want to save it, not end it. Where was it again Obama is getting $800B to fund Obamacare? Um, Medicate, right?

So, either they don't see them as socialist programs, or they don't mind socialist programs.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/nov/02/cuts-medicare-anatomy-talking-point/

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

TheOtherHockeyMom said:
So, either they don't see them as socialist programs, or they don't mind socialist programs.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2012/nov/02/cuts-medicare-anatomy-talking-point/

I don't use politifact to find my talking points.

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
I don't use politifact to find my talking points.

That's just the link to the fact check on the 700 million.

So, are social security and medicare socialist programs that shouldn't be allowed to exist in our country, or are they good and necessary programs that we should work to save? What's the Republican view on this?

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

I did. Here is a fact check of your fact check

http://www.forbes.com/sites/aroy/2012/11/05/the-ten-worst-fact-checks-of-the-2012-election/

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

Jeffwhosoever said:
I did. Here is a fact check of your fact check

The Ten Worst Fact-Checks of the 2012 Election - Forbes

Did I miss it, none of those ten seemed to refer to the 700 million/medicare issue?

So, are they socialist policies, and should they be strengthened or eliminated?

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

Sorry - it fact checked your source, not the specifics.

Here are specifics:

Romney’s right: Obamacare cuts Medicare by $716 billion. Here’s how.

TheOtherHockeyMom · Nov 5, 2012

From your link:

It’s worth noting that there’s one area these cuts don’t touch: Medicare benefits.

But, should we even have medicare or social security? Are they socialist programs by nature, and therefore without place in a Republican platform?

TeddyReceptus · Nov 5, 2012

TheOtherHockeyMom said:
From your link:

But, should we even have medicare or social security? Are they socialist programs by nature, and therefore without place in a Republican platform?

You will either never get an answer to that or you will get the standard "they paid into the system all their lives..."

Interestingly enough that betrays a gross misunderstanding of how the system works. I always like to ask Conservatives who paid for the first generation of Social Security recipients? And when did the system become a "present pays for future" vs a "present pays for current retirees".

What I also find interesting is that some hard core conservative retirees will complain when they don't get a "cost of living adjustment". I always like to ask if they paid extra when they were working to cover that.

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

The Medicare Advantage cut gets the most attention, but it only accounts for about a third of the Affordable Care Act’s spending reduction. Another big chunk comes from the hospitals. The health law changed how Medicare calculates what they get reimbursed for various services, slightly lowering their rates over time. Hospitals agreed to these cuts because they knew, at the same time, they would likely see an influx of paying patients with the Affordable Care Act’s insurance expansion.

Illuminaughty · Nov 5, 2012

According to the standard conservative Republican definition of socialist it would probably qualify but they can't get rid of it without people going bananas and them loosing elections for a long time to come.

Jeffwhosoever · Nov 5, 2012

Why does Jill Stein keep emailing me? I'm up to at least 20 emails now.

"Dear Jeffrey --

Tuesday is Election Day, and before you vote, we wanted to let you know about 3 ways you can help build our Green movement.

First, take a look at Jill Stein's positions on various ballot measures around the country. Then, don't forget to watch tonight's Free & Equal presidential debate with friends and family. Finally, join Jill and Cheri Honkala for a live Google hangout video chat on Tuesday night. Read on for details..."

Jill's campaign must be very disorganized if I'm getting email! :doh:

Obama's Progressive Gamble - over the wants/needs of Americans

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