Pro-Choice Versus Pro-Life

wannabeadesigirl · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
NO, its a culture of death. It is wrong!!!!

Here's my question. 6 out of 100 zygotes conceived by women not on birth control are expelled out of the uterus. If the Prolife movement is so prolife, where are the fundraisers to try and figure out how to keep those 6 zygotes from being killed by hormonal imbalances and genetic disorders? Or is that too much like playing God? If a woman has a miscarriage then it's God's will?

I can't imagine anyone is "pro abortion". As stated by me and others on this thread we think it is a really sad, horrible thing that happens far too frequently. I am pro-choice because pro-choice is so much more than just agreeing to have abortion be legal.

It is also seeking to give women the ability to level the playing field when it comes to sexuality. It is seeking to give women the free access to birth control that men have when it comes to obtaining viagra. It is putting more control and choice into OUR hands so we can decide when we are ready to be sexually active, with who, and when we decide to have kids.

I'm not entirely sure how that is a bad thing, particularly when guys have all the choice in the world, and there is less pressure on them to be "sexually pure" in the first place.

mathetes123 · Nov 2, 2012

ranunculus said:
'Pro life' policies cause more abortions than pro-choice policies.

How so?

mathetes123 · Nov 2, 2012

ranunculus said:
So what's your solution to lowering the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions?

Stop engaging in the risky behaviors that cause pregnancy.

ranunculus · Nov 2, 2012

mathetes123 said:
How so?

Making abortion illegal? That has no impact on the number of abortions and only serves to hurt women. Discouraging birth control use? That only insures more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions. Plus more spontaneous abortions. Abstinence only education? That has proven very ineffective.

ranunculus · Nov 2, 2012

mathetes123 said:
Stop engaging in the risky behaviors that cause pregnancy.

Risky behaviors huh... Oh you mean sex. So telling people they should stop having sex is your answer the problem of unwanted pregnancy and abortion? And how has that worked out so far?

yasic · Nov 2, 2012

A lot of pro-choice folks make claims that making abortion illegal does not reduce the number of abortions performed. I am sure I heard that claim at least 5 times in this thread.

Could someone show me the statistics or study or whichever evidence they have to back up that claim?

ranunculus · Nov 2, 2012

yasic said:
A lot of pro-choice folks make claims that making abortion illegal does not reduce the number of abortions performed. I am sure I heard that claim at least 5 times in this thread.

Could someone show me the statistics or study or whichever evidence they have to back up that claim?

Banning Abortion Does Not Decrease Abortion Rates

The first thing I learned from that New York Times article shocked me: it turns out that banning abortion does not actually affect the abortion rate.
A comprehensive global study of abortion has concluded that abortion rates are similar in countries where it is legal and those where it is not, suggesting that outlawing the procedure does little to deter women seeking it.
Moreover, the researchers found that abortion was safe in countries where it was legal, but dangerous in countries where it was outlawed and performed clandestinely. Globally, abortion accounts for 13 percent of womens deaths during pregnancy and childbirth, and there are 31 abortions for every 100 live births, the study said.
The results of the study, a collaboration between scientists from the World Health Organization in Geneva and the Guttmacher Institute in New York, a reproductive rights group, are being published Friday in the journal Lancet.
We now have a global picture of induced abortion in the world, covering both countries where it is legal and countries where laws are very restrictive, Dr. Paul Van Look, director of the W.H.O. Department of Reproductive Health and Research, said in a telephone interview. What we see is that the law does not influence a womans decision to have an abortion. If theres an unplanned pregnancy, it does not matter if the law is restrictive or liberal.
But the legal status of abortion did greatly affect the dangers involved, the researchers said. Generally, where abortion is legal it will be provided in a safe manner, Dr. Van Look said. And the opposite is also true: where it is illegal, it is likely to be unsafe, performed under unsafe conditions by poorly trained providers.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2012/10/how-i-lost-faith-in-the-pro-life-movement.html

Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates. For example, the abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa and 32 per 1,000 in Latin Americaregions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds. [1]

Facts on Induced Abortion Worldwide

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ranunculus said:
Risky behaviors huh... Oh you mean sex. So telling people they should stop having sex is your answer the problem of unwanted pregnancy and abortion? And how has that worked out so far?

Its all about the breakdown of morality in this country. Atheists and liberals spew that there is no right and wrong. Do your own thing. Whatever seems right to you. Reminds me of the 60's and how well did that work out. Regardless there is a right way and a wrong way.

ToddNotTodd · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
Its all about the breakdown of morality in this country. Atheists and liberals spew that there is no right and wrong. Do your own thing. Whatever seems right to you. Reminds me of the 60's and how well did that work out. Regardless there is a right way and a wrong way.

Stereotyping shows ignorance. Do you also believe that all blacks are lazy?

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ToddNotTodd said:
Stereotyping shows ignorance. Do you also believe that all blacks are lazy?

What?????? there is such a thing as right and wrong. When people are not raised with a good moral structure they don't know whats right and wrong. They live their lives in such a way that they hurt themselves then wonder why their life is so miserable. Anyone raising their children without moral codes are commiting child abuse. Many kids now days do not know right from wrong and they are wandering around doing things that mess up their lives.

ToddNotTodd · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
What?????? there is such a thing as right and wrong. When people are not raised with a good moral structure they don't know whats right and wrong. They live their lives in such a way that they hurt themselves then wonder why their life is so miserable. Anyone raising their children without moral codes are commiting child abuse. Many kids now days do not know right from wrong and they are wandering around doing things that mess up their lives.

This has absolutely nothing to do with my post to you. I was discussing your stereotyping.

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ToddNotTodd said:
This has absolutely nothing to do with my post to you. I was discussing your stereotyping.

stereotyping, lets see, you don't believe there is such a thing as right and wrong?

ToddNotTodd · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
stereotyping, lets see, you don't believe there is such a thing as right and wrong?

I don't know anyone who thinks there isn't right and wrong to them. But you've painted atheists and liberals with a broad brush. Which means you're stereotyping them, no different than calling blacks lazy.

Congratulations.

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ToddNotTodd said:
I don't know anyone who thinks there isn't right and wrong to them. But you've painted atheists and liberals with a broad brush. Which means you're stereotyping them, no different than calling blacks lazy.

Congratulations.

How did this go from stereotyping to painting blacks as lazy? Doesn't make sense. I will be sure to tell my sister-in-law that she is lazy because she is black. I was asking do you believe there is such a thing as right and wrong?

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ToddNotTodd said:
Stereotyping shows ignorance. Do you also believe that all blacks are lazy?

So you do not think there is such a thing as right and wrong?

JustMeSee · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
Atheists and liberals spew that there is no right and wrong.

That is a blatant lie. Atheists and liberals both, in general, have no problem with judging right from wrong.

ToddNotTodd · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
How did this go from stereotyping to painting blacks as lazy? Doesn't make sense. I will be sure to tell my sister-in-law that she is lazy because she is black. I was asking do you believe there is such a thing as right and wrong?

Let me try one more time...

You said:

"Atheists and liberals spew that there is no right and wrong. Do your own thing. Whatever seems right to you."

I know of no one that says this. You're stereotyping two groups of people. Stereotyping that's the same principle as saying that blacks are lazy. This is what you are doing. You're increasing the divisiveness in the country by spouting this nonsense.

Tell me, if I said to you "Christians molest children", would you take offense at the fact that I was attempting to stereotyping Christians based on the actions of certain individuals? That's what it's like when you do it.

Putting yourself in the shoes of other people can really help you to avoid the kind of behavior that leads to stereotyping.

trientje · Nov 2, 2012

ranunculus said:
Risky behaviors huh... Oh you mean sex. So telling people they should stop having sex is your answer the problem of unwanted pregnancy and abortion? And how has that worked out so far?

Its called morality. I'm involved with teens and we try to educate them and teach them that they are valuable, that their actions and choices have consequences. But these kids and many adults for that matter treat sex like its some kind of game. Then they end up pregnant are hit blind sided. Yes, they need to be educated as to how a woman gets pregnant. But the sad part is, they do not have a sense of respect for their body, and respect for themselves as a person. They are often ignorant of the diseases they can contract. And so often they come from homes where the parents are living the same way. so what chance to these kids have? When kids are raised in a home where there is no right and wrong, when they are raised with no moral standards then they flounder and do things to hurt themselves.

Shane Roach · Nov 2, 2012

Sex is one of the most strictly regulated behaviors in all of human history. That's because it has any number of very serious consequences. Acting like people controlling their sexual behavior is some sort of immoral restriction on people's freedoms is really rather absurd.

ranunculus said:
Risky behaviors huh... Oh you mean sex. So telling people they should stop having sex is your answer the problem of unwanted pregnancy and abortion? And how has that worked out so far?

ranunculus · Nov 2, 2012

trientje said:
Its called morality. I'm involved with teens and we try to educate them and teach them that they are valuable, that their actions and choices have consequences. But these kids and many adults for that matter treat sex like its some kind of game. Then they end up pregnant are hit blind sided. Yes, they need to be educated as to how a woman gets pregnant. But the sad part is, they do not have a sense of respect for their body, and respect for themselves as a person. They are often ignorant of the diseases they can contract. And so often they come from homes where the parents are living the same way. so what chance to these kids have? When kids are raised in a home where there is no right and wrong, when they are raised with no moral standards then they flounder and do things to hurt themselves.

So you agree that simply telling kids not to have sex does nothing to bring down the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortion.
Neither does misinforming them with misleading or fraudulent claims such as: birth control does nothing to reduce the rate of unplanned pregnancies, or the pill increases a woman's risk of breast cancer, or abortions cause infertility.

Pro-Choice Versus Pro-Life

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