Germany All Over Again!

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Biblewriter

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Biblewriter said:

His support for abortion?
Where has he said he "supports abortion". I've yet to see or hear the current POTUS mention just how rad he thinks abortions are.

From the website for the 2012 democrat party platform:

"The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman's right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right. Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor, and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way."

Are you going to pretend that The siitting President had no control over the platform published by the party he heads up?

Biblewriter said:

His refusal to defend babies that survived abortion attempts?


Could you elaborate?

In 2001, 2002, and 2003 Obama voted against the Illinois "Born Alive Infant Protection Act"

Biblewriter said:
pport for homosexual marriage?

You mean equal treatment of people in a secular state? Marriage equality is a good thing, why should we be against the civil liberties of our neighbor?

If this is your position, you are as bad as he is, at least on this issue.

Bibewriter said:
His written statement that he would always side with the Muslims?

When and where?

on page 216 of "The Audacity of Hope," He wrote of assuring Pakistani and Arab Americans "that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction."




Over the last four years it has been my experience that "simple matters of record" as put forward by right-wing propaganda machines are rarely simple and rarely matters of record.

Thus, all these are indeed simple matters of record, regardless of your protests.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Thus, all these are indeed simple matters of record, regardless of your protests.

So he's pro-choice. You said he supports abortion. The difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion is a very wide chasm.

I describe myself as pro-choice and pro-life, I don't see these as mutually exclusive positions. I think abortion is absolutely terrible, but I'd rather live in a society where a woman can go to medical professional than have to resort to DIY or back alley abortion. I'd prefer finding helpful ways in curbing the number of abortions through improvement of quality of life, both for mothers and for the post-born children. That includes proper sex education for young people, as well as having programs that improve the quality of life in general. Forcing a woman with an unexpected pregnancy to feel that her only means of "escape" is getting an abortion does nothing to bolster a pro-life ethic.

I believe abortion is, in most cases, a moral travesty that can be avoided, but we promulgate an environment where abortion becomes seen as the only recourse, and that helps nobody. Ignoring the quality of life for the post-born does nothing to benefit the life of the pre-born.

Now if the POTUS shares my views, I have no idea. But simply demonstrating that the POTUS' supports a pro-choice platform does not demonstrate a pro-abortion ethic. I actually have met very few people who think abortions are just the bees knees.

And as for Obama saying he'd stand with Pakistani and Arab Americans should it turn ugly for them? You see that as "siding with Muslims in everything"? Really? I see that as standing in solidarity with a vilified minority. That's what a Christian ought to do.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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waves

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Has he given support for abortion or has he backed up a belief that a government has no right to tell woman what she can or cannot do with her body?

Has he supported homosexual marriage or has he backed up a belief that a government has no right to tell people who they can or cannot marry?

Do you have proof of this written statement where it reads that he will always side with the Muslims?

You are right. They are not charges by conspiracy theorists. They are opinions and misrepresented statements and half-truths.

It is like saying that I purposefully abandon my home and family every single day instead of saying I go to work.


Obama has always supported abortion and same sex marriage. He wants to make it appear that he is fighting for people's "right to choose", because it would make him appear impartial. He says he is a Christian, but he is not a Christian. Therefore Obama is lying. Most politicians lie regularly, to get votes. Abortion is murder, murdering a child. Abortion and homosexuality are sins. Homosexuality is an abomination. Therefore people should not be allowed to perform abortions which is murder, and people should not be allowed to be involved in same sex relationships. There are serious consequences in disobeying Jesus Christ commandments. God is in control of this world, not man.


Obama announces he supports same-sex marriage

[FONT=&quot]Barack Obama Wants His Daughter to Get Abortion [/FONT]

Obama Lied About Infanticide Vote


America’s Most Biblically-Hostile U. S. President


Obama: "My Muslim Faith" - YouTube

Obama Mocks & Attacks Jesus Christ And The Bible / Video / Obama Is Not A Christian - YouTube


Pastors Arrested For Praying At White House-Obama Mocks Jesus Christ - YouTube

 
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waves

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The Politics of Racial Eugenics -Mad Margaret's Murder Machine : AN OCEAN OF BLOOD SINCE 1973


T4Program (Hitler)




New Jersey Pastor Clenard Childress of BlackGenocide.org discusses how The Negro Project was the foundation of today's industrialized abortion industry and how its pioneer, Margaret Sanger, who is still lauded by liberals as a human rights crusader, deliberately set out to sterilize blacks and encourage abortion of black babies in pursuit of a eugenicist drive to create a racially superior master race, a goal she shared with her close friend Adolf Hitler, and one that continues to reverberate through the generations as over 1,700 black babies are killed in the United States every day.


Pastor Clenard Childress: The Negro Project - YouTube
 
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Biblewriter

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So he's pro-choice. You said he supports abortion. The difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion is a very wide chasm.

I describe myself as pro-choice and pro-life, I don't see these as mutually exclusive positions. I think abortion is absolutely terrible, but I'd rather live in a society where a woman can go to medical professional than have to resort to DIY or back alley abortion. I'd prefer finding helpful ways in curbing the number of abortions through improvement of quality of life, both for mothers and for the post-born children. That includes proper sex education for young people, as well as having programs that improve the quality of life in general. Forcing a woman with an unexpected pregnancy to feel that her only means of "escape" is getting an abortion does nothing to bolster a pro-life ethic.

I believe abortion is, in most cases, a moral travesty that can be avoided, but we promulgate an environment where abortion becomes seen as the only recourse, and that helps nobody. Ignoring the quality of life for the post-born does nothing to benefit the life of the pre-born.

Now if the POTUS shares my views, I have no idea. But simply demonstrating that the POTUS' supports a pro-choice platform does not demonstrate a pro-abortion ethic. I actually have met very few people who think abortions are just the bees knees.

And as for Obama saying he'd stand with Pakistani and Arab Americans should it turn ugly for them? You see that as "siding with Muslims in everything"? Really? I see that as standing in solidarity with a vilified minority. That's what a Christian ought to do.

-CryptoLutheran

I do not even need to answer this. I do not come here to argue, but to demonstrate the error of unbiblical views. You have, in this post, sufficiently discredited yourself that further answer is not needed.
 
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waves

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I think what's telling is how those Christians who actually spent time as members of Germany's underground Confessing Church during the Nazi regime. Such as Eberhard Bethge, student, close friend, and biographer of Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who found himself deeply troubled by the growing power of the Religious Right in America during the 1980's, especially the growing fusion of American nationalism and Evangelical Christianity.

"Staying in Lynchburg, the headquarters of the Moral Majority leader Jerry Falwell, also provided an opportunity for them [the Bethges] to experience the heartbeat of American fundamentalism. The Bethges were particularly bothered by what they experienced when they visited Falwell’s church because so much that was referred to as ‘American Christianity’ reminded them of aspects of the German Christianity of the 1930s. Eberhard later wrote,

'As we entered the foyer, an usher stepped forward and gave me two badges to fasten to my lapel: the one on the left said, Jesus First and on the right, one with an American flag…I could not help but think myself in Germany in 1933…Of course, ‘Jesus First’, but and American Jesus! And so to the long history of faith and its executors another chapter is being added of a mixed image of Christ, of another syncretism on the American model, undisturbed by and knowledge of that centuries-long and sad history.'

Bethge added some remarks that have an uncanny contemporary ring to them:

'The disturbing fact is this new element, the battle for a ‘Christian nation’ against humanism. The flag has always been in the churches, but now it has come to represent the new threat of binding the political structure to an ideology, which models a whole new educational system, and a new kind of representation in Washington, and a newly interpreted Constitution.'

For Bethge, who had a great love for the United States and the democratic vision of its Founding Fathers, and who enjoyed visiting there, these signs were disturbing. He could only hope that they would not develop along the lines he feared they might.
"

(John W. de Gruchy, Daring, Trusting Spirit: Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s Friend Eberhard Bethge [Minneapolis: Fortress, 2005], 200-201.)

The danger is when the Church becomes compliant to a Nationalist Ideology, when Cross and Flag are intertwined. That's the danger.

The great irony is that in the 1930's the right-wing propagandists of the National Socialists managed to draw out from the national pride and patriotism of the people--including the churches--a compliance that would turn the churches into willing acceptance of blaming the scapegoats--the Communists, the Jews, the homosexuals, and all those who were not of the "German way".

-CryptoLutheran



Evolution is an evil theory which
abortionists, eugenicists, homosexuals,
communists, Hitler, Stalin, and many
other tyrants and dictators have used as
an excuse to commit sin, as well as
some of the worst crimes against
humanity that the world has ever
witnessed.

Society needs to clearly understand
that evolution came out of the mind of a
racist named Charles Darwin, who
both Hitler and Stalin adored. They used
evolution to justify killing Jews and
Africans, as well as anybody else who
got in their way. Charles Darwin's belief
in "the survival of the fittest" most
surely influenced Hitler’s eugenicist
goals.


The Theory of Evolution Part 3

The Theory of Evolution Part 1

The Theory of Evolution 2

 
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Gnarwhal

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So he's pro-choice. You said he supports abortion. The difference between being pro-choice and pro-abortion is a very wide chasm.

I describe myself as pro-choice and pro-life, I don't see these as mutually exclusive positions. I think abortion is absolutely terrible, but I'd rather live in a society where a woman can go to medical professional than have to resort to DIY or back alley abortion. I'd prefer finding helpful ways in curbing the number of abortions through improvement of quality of life, both for mothers and for the post-born children. That includes proper sex education for young people, as well as having programs that improve the quality of life in general. Forcing a woman with an unexpected pregnancy to feel that her only means of "escape" is getting an abortion does nothing to bolster a pro-life ethic.

I believe abortion is, in most cases, a moral travesty that can be avoided, but we promulgate an environment where abortion becomes seen as the only recourse, and that helps nobody. Ignoring the quality of life for the post-born does nothing to benefit the life of the pre-born.

Now if the POTUS shares my views, I have no idea. But simply demonstrating that the POTUS' supports a pro-choice platform does not demonstrate a pro-abortion ethic. I actually have met very few people who think abortions are just the bees knees.

And as for Obama saying he'd stand with Pakistani and Arab Americans should it turn ugly for them? You see that as "siding with Muslims in everything"? Really? I see that as standing in solidarity with a vilified minority. That's what a Christian ought to do.

-CryptoLutheran

Excellent post. :thumbsup: !

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
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PureDose

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History records that most pastors in Germany prior to
World War II were not actively involved in leading and
protecting their nation, sounding the alarm against evil politicians
with immoral political policies, goals and ambitions. This is
happening in the Republic of the United States of
America today! Germany was in a terrible crisis with the
economy and unemployment, just as America is today.
Hitler took advantage of the situation in Germany, running on
a platform of change, just as Obama did in 2008.


Obama is not Hitler and Obama is not Lenin.

The situation in America today is not as it was in Germany, at all.

It could quickly become that way, though, if people are so inclined to ignore the truths they know are true as they so continously and obviously do.
 
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gracechick

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I propose we ignore waves, she has become nothing more than a bot that posts garbage from bunk "news" sites and then runs, never engaging in actual discussion.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
You're here reading in posting in her thread because? :D
Sent from my laptop dude.
 
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gracechick

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Obama is not Hitler and Obama is not Lenin.

The situation in America today is not as it was in Germany, at all.

It could quickly become that way, though, if people are so inclined to ignore the truths they know are true as they so continously and obviously do.
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it as the saying goes. America is almost like Germany and ripe for the picking which happens to the citizens of a country who turn their back on God reveling in their rebellious ways. Don't know what country you are from, but have you taken a good long look at the US recently?
 
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ViaCrucis

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Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it as the saying goes. America is almost like Germany and ripe for the picking which happens to the citizens of a country who turn their back on God reveling in their rebellious ways. Don't know what country you are from, but have you taken a good long look at the US recently?

Earlier in this thread I pointed to how those Christians who actually were part of the underground Church in Germany and experienced, first hand, Nazi tyranny made their own comparisons to what they saw happening in America.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, I agree. It's also true that those who don't know history often think they do.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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gracechick

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Earlier in this thread I pointed to how those Christians who actually were part of the underground Church in Germany and experienced, first hand, Nazi tyranny made their own comparisons to what they saw happening in America.

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it, I agree. It's also true that those who don't know history often think they do.

-CryptoLutheran
Yes and I would say there are a few around these parts;)
 
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