Faith & Honor: Why President Obama is a Christian and NOT Muslim according to Hearsay

I've often noted where I don't support the President on many things and will not vote for him because of it. I don't like many of the policies of the President when it comes to the Middle East since they often seem to be imperialist in nature/focused on intervening where the U.S should not (more shared here, here, here, here and here )..and I do feel that many of his policies have done more many times to further destablize relations between groups such as Muslims/Christians than to help them when opening the door for radical/Fundamentalist Islamic groups to take over whenever the U.S leaves..causing harm to Muslims and CHristians and people of all kinds in very difficult situations, whether it was intended or not.

However, I've noticed a lot of talk going on over the years in regards to views ascribed to the President---and one thing I don't like to do even with people I dislike is misrepresent facts on who they are. The claims of Obama somehow being a "Muslim" (or wanting fundamentalist/Radical Islamic organizations to take over the U.S in regards to the claims of his supporting the Muslim Brotherhood) being one of them. As often as this video amongst others was played, I wish that the video actually kept the entirety of his speeches rather than edit out many parts, especially like it was at the beginning when it kept having him say "The Holy Qu'ran says...". On the full video that the previous one sampled from:



It can be said that one can say as President Obama and not be a Muslim just as many others have said, including Christians/Messianics, when it comes to ministry amongst those in Islamic cultures. The same thing goes for the many times he gave credence to Islamic cultures and the achievements done by those from that perspective...as realizing where others from a certain culture have contributed doesn't make one a follower of that religion. What Obama noted with the scientific developments from Islam was something that even atheists/agnostics have acknowledged alongside others-----and its not really any different than noting how the Scientic Revolution was something that occurred mainly to beliefs within Christianity...or that fireworks/GREAT Innovative developments came from the Asian cultures, regardless of their culture or religious views. Not everything within Islam has to be villified or feared---and much of it needs to be appraised. Of course, I may be alone in that stance here...as I've discussed elsewhere when it comes to those who are Messianic Muslims... and Muslim outreach. People often seem to have very little understanding of what it means to come from one background/express appreciation for it and yet be in another faith and advocate for that one. There was an excellent book I was going through that has been excellent on the issue, entitled "The Crescent Through the Eyes of the Cross" ( ), which has been really helpful whenever it comes to working with Muslims and seeing the extensive ways outreach is done amongst them and how they often interact with others. (more here , here, here, here and here/here).



It is fairly well -known that Obama attends a "Christian" church and is within that camp, even if the church views he supports are more liberal than most--and for more, one can go here, and here at Obama Is Not a Muslim | Christianity Today | A Magazine of .


Obama claims to believe in CHristianity and has recieved encouragement/council from other Christians (i.e. Rick Warren, T.D Jakes, Jim Wallis, Joshua DuBois, Joel Hunter, etc) that he looks to as mentors for many of the things he does...them being apart of his spiritual advisory council.


Not surprising that Obama has worked with Jakes Not so long ago, he led an early morning prayer service for President Barack Obama at St. John’s Church in Washington, D.C. – not a new role for him as he has advised other presidents as well. In his book Decision Points, George W. Bush described Jakes as “a kind of man who puts faith into action.” With Obama, He has claimed Christ--yet in many ways, what he does is not consistent with Christ....



President Obama has shared multiple times where he claims to be a Christian rather than for other religions (even though he also made known where he respects other religions/appreciates them in their contributions.....his views being more so an Inclusivist viewpoint that acknowledges common grace in other camps). People have often tried the claim "He's Muslim!!!" due to his father's background and his comments on honoring Muslims, depsite the fact that believers in the OT did the same thing when it other cultures and he has made clear that finding things within other religions that are respectable doesn't mean he thinks it's greater than Christ---and doing no different than others did in the scriptures( Genesis 18:1-3, Genesis 23:6-13 Genesis 33:2-4 Genesis 48:11-13 , Exodus 18:6-8 , etc). And as even even seen recently at the National Prayer Breakfast (seen here, here, here , here , here and here / here) where he continually pointed to Christ as being Lord/Savior of all and the one to look to, I was reminded of the folllowing:
Obvious is the fact that people with the spirit of God don't always make the best choices and anyone reading through the books of I-II Kings (i.e. King Asa, King Uzziah, Solomon, etc) and other texts of scripture sees the same principle in action....but declaring Christ as Lord is plainly something one says by the inspiration of the Spirit. The same is possible, IMHO, with President Obama. Multiple times he has surrounded himself as Christians as the people he seeks council from and has noted his development of faith in Christ long before he was president. Obama's Call to Renewal speech on faith and politics from 2006 (which made others on the Left feel their feathers ruffle ) is something that caught the attention of many way before the 2008 election...with it being pointed out often by Joshua Debois, who is head of White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships — including economic recovery and poverty reduction, abortion reduction, responsible fatherhood, and global interfaith dialogue.


For others, it seems to be the case that man is a highly decieved/apostate Christian worthy of the treatment in Jude 1:23 which gives caution for how to help certain people decieved (and I support that one for the most part)--whereas others believe he's a Christian who is still maturing since he didn't have a lot of knowledge before hand (as noted by Christianity Today here), with a tendency to often make very BAD alliances while also doing a lot of righteous things (similar to the many kings in II Chronicles with Judah who often were noting for loving the Lord at many points except in certain areas-----King Jehoshaphat being a great example when seeing his life in action, the ways he sought to bring reform and yet was known for often joining up with the wrong leaders in Israel- II Chronicles 17-20 ). Others say that he's one who believes himself to be a "Christian" when not really understanding what it means to be one...........

Regardless of the differing stances others have on him, what is clear is that Muslims do not see the President as a Muslim.

If other Muslims consider Obama to not be "Muslim", its interesting when others say that he is...

On the video shared at the beginning, some things didn't really seem surprising to me. For even his statements about the U.S. not being a "Christian" nation is something that has not shocked anyone, seeing that many have tried to point that the U.S was never truly "Christian" to begin with---and even the Founding Fathers themselves were not truly "Christian" to begin with in regards to their treatment of other groups since the founding of the nation.......and most of the Founding Fathers were very much into demonic things such as Freemasonry. There was one statue I remember seeing of George Washington IN D.C that had him in the form of a Greek GOD...


Many other things besides that ALL over the capital where one could see plainly evidences of how our nation never really was Christian or believing in the Lord Jesus. For more

• Secrets of the Founding Fathers part 1 (History Channel)[/COLOR][/SIZE]\

• ---"Prison Planet: Free Masonry" ( )

• George Washington Massonic Memorial...

• The United States: A Country founded on Paganism

• ---"David Barton discuss the Founding Fathers and Masonry." ( )

I do hope people will begin understanding and learning the reality of how dangerous it is whenever others slander people without having any kind of understanding as to how systems work...or how our own is often similar.

NightHawkeye said:

ROTFL ...

Who is that man in the White House?


What is his religion? What is his name? Where did he come from? What does he really want?

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Seeing that he has made his identity quite clear for any one honest enough to go with what he has said (as it concerns appreciation for his background in Islam based on what his father raised him in and yet identifying with Christianity/proclaiming CHrist), people need to learn how to be honorable on it---or at least remotely aware of how things are for believers living in cultures that are Islamic (as even they have often noted what it's like being a Muslim Background Believer and yet following Christ...them still identifying much with Islam on many levels/showing honor for it and yet claiming Christ). People often do the same kind of foolishness when claiming "Only Muslims say Allah or use Muslim phrases while Christians don't" and yet they have no remote understanding or awareness of how Arabic believers used the same word "Allah" to refer to God for centuries before Islam and the same with saying "Peace be unto you" As-Salamu Alaykum ) being used by believers for a long time.

Some of this was discussed before in another thread when it came to others trying to do the "guilt-by-association" tatics in regards to the President/his working with Muslims. As said before:

Grizzly said:

I work with a guy who claims to be Jewish. He's Christian and believes all the things Christians believe. But he's Jewish.

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Seen the same, although there are many people who are Messianic Jewish and a lot of Christians have no concept of what it means to be both Jewish and a believer in Yeshua (just as Yeshua was Jewish/followed God the Father).

DaisyDay said:

He is Christian. Hawaii by way of Chicago. Too vague to be answerable, but I think he really wants his children to grow up safe and happy.

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In line with his beliefs as a Christian, I definately think that he's very concerned about his children growing up happy/safe. And he has been well known to be a family man when it comes to his daughters/wife and advocating for Americans to spend time with their children...as well as advocating other forms of family as well.

For more:

• Families are a pro-life subject
• Obama Father's Day Speech - C-SPAN Video Library
• Video: Obama on being a hands-on dad – CNN Political Ticker ...
• 
  President Obama gives Latino youth an opportunity ... - OrthoCuban

His desires for his children growing up safe is one of the reasons why it seems he's often concerned about interfaith dialouges with other groups since we live in a multicultural/global economy and kids are facing those things head on. As it concerns his actions when it comes to other groups and working with Muslims as a Christian , I do think that a lot of it is taken WAY out of context when trying to say he wants to harm Christians everywhere. Concerning his working with Muslims and how so many have idolized a lot of the things said in Glen Becks' documentary "The Project" on the conspiracy theory of Muslims from Muslim Brotherhood somehow taking over, I think there are so many things willfully left out of the equation that need to be remembered.


As another said best:

NightHawkeye said:

I agree that Barack Hussein Obama's background is quite clear for anyone who has an interest in looking at it objectively.

It also seems that having grown up on foreign shores, he didn't set foot on the American mainland until he was a full-grown adult. Perhaps because of that his perspective is quite different from that of many Americans ... and many Americans simply don't understand him at all.

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Seeing that he grew up in Honolulu, Hawaii, and didn't move from there with his mother until he was 6yrs, he'd already have more of a multicultural perspective simply because the state of Hawaii is already a culture of mixture in regards to the ways Polynesian/Eastern values and Western/American values are intertwined. And his time in Indonesia (when he/his mother moved at 6yrs old) makes a world of difference when it comes to some of the exposure he has had. His childhood is a complicated one indeed ( more here, here, here and here )...and he has noted that many times

Some want to project their own aspirations and ideals onto Obama ... but that leads them to erroneous conclusions regarding his actions as President. Others simply substitute one stereotypical image or another and they then build erroneous conclusions which result from that. Obviously, neither is quite right.

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Indeed

Dinesh D'Souza, on the other hand, went to considerable lengths to understand Obama's childhood background and his upbringing in order to discern what motivates the man in political terms. D'Souza's movie, 2016, is an amazing work which is must seeing for anyone sincerely interested in understanding who Obama is, what motivates him and his intentions for the USA.

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A lot ot what D'Souza (author of "The Roots of Obama's Rage" which I checked out before) had true points whereas other things were overstated and many things left out in the analysis. I agree with others who note that the documentary could have been done better and with more honesty on a host of points (as much of it seemed typical at types of the right wing smeer journalism that often happens when divorcing statements from their overall context as D'Souza did when quoting from "Dreams of My Father"/leaving out other portions of the book alongside differing books President Obama made on the issue)---and other points of connection didn't work since many presidents before). Trying to infer based on views his father supposedly had doesn't equate to understanding how a president is now---especially as it concerns a lot of the conspiracy theories of "Obama is trying to make the world less than it was because he's against colonianlism." ...even though other presidents have been against colonialism as well/many of the things that the President has. And seeing the many of the plans the President has sought to implement for prosperity were plans designed/offered by many of his opponents, it would be inconsistent to claim as D'Souza that the President was seeking to make the country less than what it was due to his father....for that'd mean by default that all others working with the President must have had similar backgrounds or goals somehow when they agreed with stances he had even though they opposed him.

In light of the many times good plans/opportunities were developed and others didn't take advantage of them, it often seems people keep trying to blame the president for things that they allow. The claim of him being "anti-capitalist" being one of the worse in light of the ways President Obama has consistently worked with capitalists of many kinds throughout his campaign, be it in the Private sector with Big Buisness or with Wall Street or with other grass-roots organizations as well (more here and here/ here and here ). Much of it seemed very much in line with the silliness others do when trying to claim "President Obama's a SOCIALIST, NOT CAPITALIST!!!!" and yet have little to no understanding of what that actually is (as shared before here and here/here )...and not surprisingly, most if not all of the people accepting the film already do just that. The other accusations of the President wanting America to be poorer don't line up in light of many opportunties he has opened up for investment in many areas---including going abroad (as he lived abroad) and trying to find ways to get the U.S connected to others around the world.

NightHawkeye said:

Hi, Easy G.

It seems we're largely in agreement on both the FACTS of Obama's background and the ways in which he is largely mis-understood by people all across the political spectrum.

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Hey NightHawkeyeIndeed. There are many others who've noted the reality on how being raised in differing regions carry with it differing understandings of social issues that people in the mainland are bothered by. One dear brother in the Lord I know of/have enjoyed following lives in Indonesia and has often noted the ways that Islam interacts with Christianity and others have a better grasp of it there than in the West where it's often stereotyped. For some good resources on the issue:

• Isa Almasih and Jesus Christ - PART 1 | ἐν Χριστῷ
• Isa Almasih and Jesus Christ - Part 2 | ἐν Χριστῷ
• Isa Almasih and Jesus Christ - Part 3 | ἐν Χριστῷ
• Isa Almasih and Jesus Christ - Part 4 | ἐν Χριστῷ
• Isa Almasih and Jesus Christ - Part 6 | ἐν Χριστῷ
• The Use of the Word "Allah" in Malaysia| ἐν Χριστῷ

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NightHawkeye said:

LOL ... sure, D'Souza could have been more accurate if Obama had been honest that his basis for Christianity was "black liberation theology" and that Obama would support the arab world rather than Israel at every opportunity.

Of course, if Obama had been open about those he wouldn't have secured his party's nomination, much less the election.

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In light of the bottom line reality that President Obama has already been funding Israel via weapons and funding throughout his term, it would be foolish for anyone remotely trying to claim that the President would rather support the Arab world rather than Israel...especially seeing how he has already spoken against it MULTIPLE times and done warfare with others in Arab lands that are terrorists. Even Israel's president spoke to Obama on the issue in support multiple times--with Palestinians being upset at President Obama..

President Barack Obama signed legislation to bolster U.S. military cooperation with Israel and highlighted release of $70 million for the Jewish state's missile defense ...and he consistently spoken out against the enemies of Israel when it comes to harrassing them. Where others often seem mad is that he isn't of the mindset that one must demonize all other Middle-Eastern countries as "terrorists" in order to support Israel since his mindset is for PEOPLE, be it Israelis or Non-Israelis, to live and to ensure that others keeping that from happening are not allowed to continue on. One of the reasons he has been very tough on Iran.


For reference:

• Israeli President Peres to Obama: ‘We support you' on Iran
• Obama Announces $70 Million in New Military Aid for Israel - ABC ...
• Barack Obama Supports Israel 100% - USA Owes Jews Due to the Holocaust - OBAMA 2012

Your failure to understand Obama's Marxist leanings though, does not mean that D'Souza was incorrect in his conclusions ... but I digress.

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President Obama has never supported Marxism and other capitalists have noted that multiple times when it comes to others throwing the term around without actually showing evidence of such. The failure on your part to use terms correctly as many others is in line with what D'Souza does in failing to understand what capitalism is about and the many variations of that. Throwing the term "Marxism" around does nothing in establishing credible understanding of that simple point...and again, that's said in light of what numerous economists have said who are for capitalism. At best, it could be said Obama supports State Capitalism...but not Marxism

And on Obama and his policies, as said before:

NightHawkeye said:

..if Obama had been honest that his basis for Christianity was "black liberation theology" and that Obama would support the arab world rather than Israel at every opportunity. Of course, if Obama had been open about those he wouldn't have secured his party's nomination, much less the election.

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Obama had already been honest as it concerns discussing Black Liberation theology, including his views on the pastor of the church/his relationship, as he noted before in his "A More Perfect Union" (prior to his distancing himself from Wright altogether)


Even folks like Mike Huckabee defended President Obama in his views/responses toward Wright (as seen here )...and most people trying raise the black liberation issue as a point against Obama are rather clueless as to what is actually taught in liberation theology (as Dr.Martin Luther King was) as well as the variations of Black Liberation theology and where President Obama already noted his disagreement with it....one of the biggest reasons he has others around him from Evangelical Christianity as his advisors. I always find it humorous whenever people seek to demonize all aspects of Black Liberation theology and yet have never been involved in a Black Liberation church, worked with black people or even are connected to Black culture....and way too many blacks have spoken on the issue before.

Although people may sharply disagree with the president on a host of issues and there's freedom to do so, I must say that it doesn't seem biblical to do things which can be akin to slander---and that is something even many against the president noted when it comes to the claims that President Obama went to a racist/anti-American church. For that was NEVER the case for anyone aware of what was actually said and why it was said in the context it was in. Other black pastors were once discussing the former pastor of Barack Obama, Jeremiah Wright, and his public comments concerning the Black Church and the United States of America. For more:

• EX-Cast Episode 20

Though they disagree (as I do) with Jeremiah on a HOST of issues...namely, how Jeremiah has supported Louis Farrakan (of the Nation of Islam) despite how that man has often been VERY demeaning toward Judaism---they also noted how much of what Jeremiah said were things that directly speak for all groups of oppressed peoples. In example, what Jeremiah stated about America being in sin for hypocrisy is something that others have noted with the Israeli state since many were often saying Israel/Jewish people should be supported.....and yet, many Jewish people were being WILLFULLY neglected by the U.S. government in their own territory.

Many talking about Wright's church being "racist" don't even attend a black church nor do they understand the nature of African-American social justice preaching, but got quotes of their pastor from the media or worse - biased sources. I don't think his pastor was all that radical when compared to others of the same persuasion, and I certainly don't think anyone on this forum is in a position to judge, as most people here are not African-Americans from Chicago who lived through and still live a serious civil rights problem. There are a host of issues I disagree with Jeremiah Wright on. However, the comment he said about the U.S.A isn't something I think people should be willing to die for.

People often don't realize that many pastors/teachers and rabbis have noted the same thing that the pastor of that church did when it came to condemning the U.S for what it has done toward others. (Fredrick Douglass as well)..and for those supportative of Liberation Theology, the emphasis of social justice is always paramount because one cannot claim to love the Lord while ignoring the physical needs of others (Luke 10:25-39, James 1:26-27 ,etc ). People often forget that with Wright, his attacks on racism and the activist programs of his church are what attracted Obama to the church. It was Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago that helped others realize how serving the Lord should be practical. Wright was a man who for 30 years led a church that serves the community by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS. Thus, others may often forget that Wright's comments had a context that gets quickly forgotten.

For many, Jeremiah Wright dared to forgo the singing of “God Bless America"...trying to claim that the prophetic biblical message of the hour ought to call us to proclaim, “God D_#@%^__ America.”The words remain infuriating....and at worst, they imply that God is vindictive, vengeful, and bloodthirsty. Where many were vexed was with Jeremiah's comments seeming to imply that even during a time of tragedy–that the judgment of God is appropriately meted out through the tragic deaths of innocent people through terrorist acts of hatred/ evil.

However, when his provocative language is read alongside the vitriolic words of many Hebrew Testament prophets, it seems Wright’s words ring true. The prophets connected their nation’s injustice and neglect of the poor with the destruction of Israel, often using vitriolic language. The prophet Amos once described the wealthy women of Samaria as “fat cows."---and Isaiah referred to once faithful Israel as a prostitute.

In the Hebrew Testament, prophets were as a rule not insiders in the royal palace. Jeremiah’s words of prophetic judgment became so disruptive to the King threw the prophet into jail ( Jeremiah 37 ). Its interesting to note that just over 40 years ago, Martin Luther King, Jr. gave up his access to President Lyndon Baines Johnson to prophetically speak out against the war in Vietnam. The reality is that prophets and presidents don’t mix generally....

It was from this perspective that Wright was seeking to come from. For what he was saying in the full context of his sermons/messages was that the U.S. has participated in many acts of evil. From slavery to Jim Crow segregation, from sexism to the internment of Japanese during World War II, from environmental disasters to the neglect of the poor, America has a record on par with that of Hebrew Testament Israel. When it comes to foreign policy, the U.S. did financially invest in South Africa during the days of apartheid, used the CIA to enact coups against democratically elected leaders in Iran and Guatemala in the 1950s, and remains the only nation to use nuclear weapons. One could say that perhaps these domestic and foreign policy actions prove that Rev. Wright was right.

And for those that say that the Bible doesn't has a focus upon what happens PHYSICALLY as much as it does with things SPIRITUALLY, Wright's comments were aimed at that:
Since the first slaves arrived in America, blacks and whites have preached different versions of the Bible. For blacks, the most popular text was Exodus, and slaves strongly identified with Moses and the "Hebrew children." For whites connected to slavery, the most popular text came from the disciple Paul, who urged the slaves to be kind to their masters and obey their masters. The former is a theology of liberation; the latter is a theology of oppression. No one did more to unite these wildly differing views of Christianity than the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. King was able to preach a religion that incorporated the militancy of the Old Testament with the "love your neighbor as yourself" message of Jesus and the Sermon on the Mount. Moreover, King integrated our secular political philosophy of liberty and equality with his religious message. King wanted to move toward a colorblind society but realized we weren't there yet. Toward the end of his life, he recognized that America would need a true revolution in values to get there. More than a dream, he called for an end to militarism, poverty and racism. As a Liberation Theologian, King's goal was to see justice given practically to people of all classes/ethnic backgrounds. And Liberation Theology is the driving theme behind the foundations of what Jeremiah's intent is.

For more on Liberation Theology, if interested, you can investigate the work of a man known as Phil Perkins....and one organization that deals much in the area is known as the CCDA. They're a ministry geared toward aiding those who deal extensively in Urban/Street Ministry....and who often deal with groups where there's physical struggle going on and the needs of the poor are ignored counter to what the Good Samaritan did (Luke 10:25-33). They have also done an excellent job (IMHO) addressing the issue of Liberation Theology and what it means for others in certain social contexts. For more, one can go online/investigate under the following titles:

• "UrbanSermons.org | Liberation Theology"
• "Luis Carlo: Understanding Liberation Theology: UYWI 2008
• "COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT THEORY AND PRACTICE: BRIDGING THE DIVIDE BETWEEN ‘MICRO’ AND ‘MACRO’ LEVELS OF SOCIAL WORK

With Liberation Theology, much of it arose in response to what happened often throughout church history....as it concerns Ascetism and focusing seldom to none on the physical and believing one becomes more spiritual as they have less. It was highly influential in the Catholic Church for a good bit...and in many other churches since who say God's not concerned for things such as healing of the body (as Jesus did often) or having goods....condeming others who dare to believe in praying for the sick to get healed/believing Gods heart is for wholeness and that its not wrong to live comfortably.

Its what often kept those who were poor in their states, as their condition was "spiritualized" and made to look bad if one tried to rise up from that....as the prevailing view was that God "ordained" each of us to remain in the state of life that we were born into---and so if you were born poor, you were not to fight against it.

As Martin Luther King said best, , “A minister cannot preach the glories of heaven while ignoring social conditions in his own community that cause [people] an earthly hell.”-He said this in regards to other colored preachers of his day who'd talk about God and yet not do anything on physical conditions others dealt with. Some of its similar to others who have a "pie in the sky" mindset, as opposed to others who are of the mindset that heaven is to be brought to Earth. With Liberation Theology, others who are founders within the movement would be people such as priest Gustavo Gutiérrez. James Cone would be another influential leader in the movement---as he contexualized it within the framework of something known as Black Liberation Theology. With Wright, his specific emphasis on "Black Liberation Theology" was centered on the fact that blacks in the Civil Rights time/afterward needed to know that the Lord indeed desired for them to be treated fairly as well.....

People often think that all those advocating "Black Liberation Theology" are "racist"---but the reality, ironically, is that the kind of "Black Christianity" that Wright preaches today was born in an attempt to make Christianity relevant to the black urban youths who strike fear in the hearts of so many suburban whites – and, as Obama said in his speech, his own grandmother. King's Christian-led, Southern-based civil rights movement did not resonate with ghetto youth in the North in the mid-'60s. When King tried to calm those engaged in urban violence in Watts in 1965, he was booed. Those youths did not see any gains from the civil rights movement and were more attracted to the rhetoric and programs of Malcolm X and the Nation of Islam. James Cone, Vincent Harding and other black Christian activists who admired both King and Malcolm sought to develop a theology that would bring young blacks back to the Christian church. They argued that God was on the side of the oppressed and that Jesus was a militant willing to rock the boat. Their work inspired a whole new generation of black church activists and activists of all ethnicities who have made it their Christian duty to shelter the homeless, feed the hungry, cloth the naked and protect the weak. A large part of the message has to do with family values and responsibility that should be encouraged by conservatives. But they also preach King's message of opposition to war and materialism – a message often lost in the annual focus on King's "dream" of a colorblind society..

There are many things within forms of Black Liberation theology that're off and I'm glad others have noted that--but some things are worth considering.

DaisyDay said:

He is Christian. Hawaii by way of Chicago. Too vague to be answerable, but I think he really wants his children to grow up safe and happy.

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I often wonder what his children may think of him in light of what the rest of the country often says about their father as if they know him more than they do

Originally Posted by NightHawkeye

Hey, have you heard about Benghazi-gate? The theory is that the Obama regime is lying about circumstances surrounding the killing of the ambassador there. Do you think the trial will occur after Obama leaves office or will it begin while Obama is still in office?

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Who knows on that one. I'm really not concerned on it to be truthful on it...although I'd not be surprised if all the facts were not automatically being given since anyone working in government knows that the public is never told the full story on a lot of things.

Illuminaughty said:

You can never do enough for the Israeli regime apparently. The way some conservatives talk you would think American presidents were elected to represent Israel. It's not enough that Obama forks over billions in financial and military aid. It's not enough that he turns a blind eye to the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians. What more could they possible want? .

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So true...although I don't think he necessarily turned a blind eye to the Palestinians. The military funding he gave to Israel throughout his term is something I've often wondered whether others really keep up with whenever making claims that he didn't support Israel.

As said elsewhere in NY Times:
There've been many who've noted that it often seems President Obama has been betraying his Progressive base that helped him in the election (many seeing how he has been against civil liberties and doing the exact same things the previous president did in with bad policies)---but as it concerns Israel, the man has seemed to be very consistent in helping it. Also, as another wisely noted on what it means to be "Pro-Israel" when comparing President Obama and Romney:

• President Obama and Israel: The Facts | NJDC
• Iran, Israel, and Obama | Tikkun Magazine
• The Truth About Obama and Israel - NYTimes.com
• On Iran, Obama shows he loves Israel a little too much
• 
  President Obama Calls Israel's Bluff - Tikkun Magazine
• Obama's Chutzpah Is Catching Fire Among Jewish Democrats
• Obama's Speech About Palestinian Statehood at the UN–A Critique

It's noteworthy in seeing the relationship Obama has had with Israel when considering how President Obama’s record compares with previous presidents:

• No Republican president has visited Israel in their first term. President George W. Bush didn’t visit Israel until the eighth year of his presidency. The only two U.S. presidents to make an official state visit to Israel during their first term were Presidents Carter and Clinton.
• President Ronald Reagan never visited Israel during his presidency.

President Obama has visited Israel twice, including once as a candidate in 2008—just like Mitt Romney is doing now. While in Israel, President Obama visited Sderot to see the impact of repeated rocket attacks out of Gaza and went to Yad Vashem, where he participated in a wreath laying ceremony in the Hall of Remembrance. While in Israel, President Obama visited Sderot to see the impact of repeated rocket attacks out of Gaza and went to Yad Vashem, where he participated in a wreath laying ceremony in the Hall of Remembrance.


Prime Minister Netanyahu recognized President Obama’s trip when asked a question about Romney’s, adding that he’d say “pretty much the same things [to Romney that] I’ve said to the presumptive Democratic candidate, Senator Barack Obama, when I greeted him four years ago—roughly the same time—in the campaign.”

• Barack at the Wailing Wall
• Barck in Israel and Other Juicy Tidbets
• The Truth About Obama and Israel - NYTimes.comjavascript:void(0)

I'm guessing they want us to go to war for Israel too. Maybe do a little bombing in Iran and do Israels dirty work for them. Anything less than that isn't doing enough supposedly.

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Bizzare when considering how much others don't say someone really supports others unless they are ready to wipe out all in opposition to/disagreement with Israel..and that is sad.


President Obama needs support..

Grizzly said:

I hate that our middle eastern foreign policy appears to be dictated by a 2,000 year old document of dubious origin.

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What exactly was it that you had in mind..

Illuminaughty said:

You can never do enough for the Israeli regime apparently. The way some conservatives talk you would think American presidents were elected to represent Israel. It's not enough that Obama forks over billions in financial and military aid. It's not enough that he turns a blind eye to the Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians. What more could they possible want? I'm guessing they want us to go to war for Israel too. Maybe do a little bombing in Iran and do Israels dirty work for them. Anything less than that isn't doing enough supposedly.

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Some are of the mindset that the only way to support Israel is to be for wiping out ALL enemies of Zion permanately----sad as that would be....and dangerous for Israel as well. I'm reminded of folks from the Religious Right/Christian Zionism camps that have huge political voices such as John Hagee, who has often spoken against President Obama in his stances for Israel and other nations:


Hagee often seems to advocate for the enemies of the Israeli state to go to war with Israel so that Israel may destory them and the return of the Messiah may come. In his books and sermons Hagee has promoted a “greater Israel,” that will reclaim all of Israel’s former biblical territory, stating “In modern terms, Israel rightfully owns all of present-day Israel, all of Lebanon, half of Syria, two-thirds of Jordan, all of Iraq, and the northern portion of Saudi Arabia.” In Hagee’s apocalyptic prophecy media he claims that the rest of the world will turn on Israel in the imminent battles of the end times and that a “remnant “of Jews will only convert after being rescued by Jesus and his armies...and because of this, he has often noted where believers need to vote for policies against the enemies of Israel since it may lead to aggression on the enemies part and the Lord showing vindication by delivering Israel.

I was shocked seeing what Hagee called for at one point on Iran when calling for military action/war (and death) against Iran regardless of what would come afterward:




IMHO, it's hard not to ignore the ways he has often spoke of Iran as an enemy needing to be destroyed by Israel for their antagonism against the Israeli state and Jews---which is ironic in light of the many who are Iranian Jews (Jews of Persia, who are directly connected to Queen Esther in Esther 2-9 since she lived there )....and for the Jews in Iran who either lived there or currently reside there and many Iranian Jews moving to Israel live in fear of their relatives back in Iran and wonder if they're considered whenever Israel is supported at any cost (as if they're simply casualties of war caught in the crossfire), whereas others feel frustrated at the ways that people forget the many ways that Iranian Jews were treated respectfully in Iran ---and many Jewish groups have noted that reality of Hagaee having dangerouns consequences when seeing the things he has said. Many have noted how the main reasons why Iran is even against Israel is because of the treatment of Palestinians in Israel and many Iranian Jews espect/have made clear their unity with the Palestinians on the matter when it comes to defending them and demanding that Israel treat them fairly.....counter to the stereotype that all Jews are united in support of the Israeli state (more shared here from previous discussions on Israel).






One organization that did alot of good documentation of where Hagaee expressed genocidal thoughts can be seen at "ZEEK: A Jewish Journal of Thought and Culture - A Serial Obstructionist" . Whenever I watched his show, I thought "This man WANTS to start a war, all in the name of Jesus and saying it's justified because he's with Israel."...and sadly, during the Obama presidential term, it does seem that what often happens is that people have the same Christian ZIONIST mindset toward Israel that says one isn't truly for Israel unless they're seeking to actively go to war with Israel whenever Israel calls for it------or seeking to not be cautious in getting involved in conflicts whenever people (Israel included) demand for the U.S to get involved in taking others out.

It is President Obama's caution that has caused him to not truly be popular with many, including others who don't want him to be pursuing a policy that calls for others to consider all options beyond sending a nuke to kill someone. And for many of those on the Religious Right, it seems that is the only real option.