If Christ took the curse of the law away, does the curse still apply?

Yahu said:

The problem comes in when we follow the flesh instead of the Spirit and are not IN CHRIST for that action. IF we are following the Spirit THEN we don't have to worry about any curses.

That is a totally different concept then, 'there are no more curses' so do anything you like and you don't have to worry about the consequences because the curses are all gone and paid for.

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"IN CHRIST" is a new creation birth - all the old is gone - everything is made brand new - meaning you are a new creation because your spirit is fused to the HOLY SPIRIT when you truly genuinely give your life to CHRIST

now if you just dabble in christianity - or "date" JESUS and do NOT give your life to HIM - then you can pop in and out of a quasi-relationship with HIM for as long as you wish - but once your spirit is fused to the HOLY SPIRIT you are "committed/saved/kept" for life - by HIS power and ability - not yours

you can NOT pop in and out of CHRIST - your spirit is forever one with GOD the FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT

now your mind that needs renewing and your heart that needs guarding can pop in and out of faith and truth - which results in your behavior popping in and out of GODLINESS/CHRIST-likeness

and that is why we need to be filled with the WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT daily

JESUS said that we would bear fruit that lasts ONLY if we STAY in HIS WORD and follow the HOLY SPIRIT WHO has been sent to lead and guide us into all truth

so our fruitfullness is affected by our beliefs and behavior - but "IN CHRIST" is a WORK of GOD by the HOLY SPIRIT - and GOD does not make new creations that fall in and out of new creation-ness - you can NOT pop in and out of being a new creation and then an old creation and then a new creation and then an old creation

GreatistheLord said:

Its an interesting point, but I think this verse in Revelation is about the curse being lifted from Mankind as a whole, not as a result of men's faith but simply because it is the end of the world, death itself is thrown into hades!

Just because life has problems doesnt make it a curse, it is just life! we are promised trials, but we are also promised a seat in heavenly places. Jesus is not cursed, and we are his body. God could not curse us any more than He could curse Jesus sitting next to Him. These NT verses assume we are in Christ. God sees us that way, unless we choose to rebel.

Just because we see the effects of the curse does not mean that God wills it. The devil is a liar and a thief. God has given us the promise of freedom from the curse(s) of the law(s), and we have to obtain it "through faith and patience", it is not an automatic fact. The Israelites took 440 years.

Thanks for the great thoughts on Gal 3:13 - the laws it refer to are not restricted to the Mosaic law, but the Adamic law too. Praise God!

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Yet Yeshua Himself curses the Jezebel and her followers in the church of Thyatira in Rev 2. These are individuals IN THE CHURCH!

HolySpiritWOF2 said:

"IN CHRIST" is a new creation birth - all the old is gone - everything is made brand new - meaning you are a new creation because your spirit is fused to the HOLY SPIRIT when you truly genuinely give your life to CHRIST

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Nonsense. There are many baby christians that have salvation but never get very far in the sanctification process. We become a new spiritual creation but that does NOT imply we have overcome the flesh within our life and instantly become christ-like. That is a lifelong process.

If we disobey, there are consequences regardless if we are saved. Sin has consequences. Those consequences are due to curses. It allows the enemy the right to attack, destroy and kill.

HolySpiritWOF2 said:

now if you just dabble in christianity - or "date" JESUS and do NOT give your life to HIM - then you can pop in and out of a quasi-relationship with HIM for as long as you wish - but once your spirit is fused to the HOLY SPIRIT you are "committed/saved/kept" for life - by HIS power and ability - not yours

you can NOT pop in and out of CHRIST - your spirit is forever one with GOD the FATHER SON HOLY SPIRIT

now your mind that needs renewing and your heart that needs guarding can pop in and out of faith and truth - which results in your behavior popping in and out of GODLINESS/CHRIST-likeness

and that is why we need to be filled with the WORD and the HOLY SPIRIT daily

JESUS said that we would bear fruit that lasts ONLY if we STAY in HIS WORD and follow the HOLY SPIRIT WHO has been sent to lead and guide us into all truth

so our fruitfullness is affected by our beliefs and behavior - but "IN CHRIST" is a WORK of GOD by the HOLY SPIRIT - and GOD does not make new creations that fall in and out of new creation-ness - you can NOT pop in and out of being a new creation and then an old creation and then a new creation and then an old creation

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Sorry, I don't follow your salvation by works doctrine or your concept of quasi-saved individuals. What you are describing is the difference between spiritual maturity verses immaturity, not a 'lack of salvation'.

It is what I like to call a 'baby slapping' doctrine, telling baby christians they are not saved because they don't measure up to your standard of spiritual maturity. We know what Yeshua says about harming the little ones. That is also a curse. You are better off tying a millstone around your neck and jumping into the sea.

Justification (salvation) is a one time event. Many never get past that point. They don't overcome any trials or tribulations. They will just be poor, blind and naked in the coming kingdom BUT the may crawl in the gates.

IMO you need to learn the difference between justification, sanctification and glorification or the salvation of the spirit verses salvation of the soul as well as the reward system for the overcomers.

I have been pondering this mystery, asking the Lord about it recently, Adam and Eve knew they where naked, after they had fell, disobeyed God s instruction,
all of us would not walk down the high street naked, we would be more than aware we are naked,

so do we posses this knowledge, also of good and evil. ? the Lord wanted to keep us from,

Adam and Eves mind set, spiritual innocence , position before the fall.

Also where was the garden, was it in this realm as we know it?

Yahu said:

Yet Yeshua Himself curses the Jezebel and her followers in the church of Thyatira in Rev 2. These are individuals IN THE CHURCH!

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well obviously they were not stellar christians being spoken to!

Yahu said:

Yet Yeshua Himself curses the Jezebel and her followers in the church of Thyatira in Rev 2. These are individuals IN THE CHURCH!

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Isn't it interesting how Paul shows that the blessed Abrahamic gospel, was juxtaposed to the cursed Mosaic law life, (that being the the ministry of death and condemantion according to 2 Cor 3), in Gal 3:9-10?

Amazing, the curse of the mosaic code was ended for believers in the gospel. I love that.

GreatistheLord said:

We do not drift in and out of being in Christ every time we sin and then repent. that is really, really wrong theology. Can you imagine dying, and it would be a lottery if you went to heaven or hell? No!

We are saved by grace, through faith, and we stay saved by grace. We can choose to walk away out of rebellion, but it cannot happen because you had a bad day.

We are in Christ, and that is by faith, not by law.

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exactly, and that verse (red above) juxtaposed Abrahamic faith, to the mosaic code in gal 3:11-12.

That's why the Abrahamic promise did not come by law, or it would void the promise, and the law worked wrath too..

Rom 4:14 For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. 15 For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.

Frogster said:

well obviously they were not stellar christians being spoken of!

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But the point is that ALL curses are not done away with by Yeshua's sacrifice. That doesn't occur until the heavenly kingdom (Rev 22:3).

While there are still thorns, thistles and death, there is still a curse.

Yahu said:

But the point is that ALL curses are not done away with by Yeshua's sacrifice. That doesn't occur until the heavenly kingdom (Rev 22:3).

While there are still thorns, thistles and death, there is still a curse.

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why ye look at the flesh? the body is dead because of sin anyway, but the spirit is life because of righteousness. rom 8:10.

Yahu said:

But the point is that ALL curses are not done away with by Yeshua's sacrifice. That doesn't occur until the heavenly kingdom (Rev 22:3).

While there are still thorns, thistles and death, there is still a curse.

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besides, the law was added to adam, to that creation, humanity rom 5:20, to the sin of adam, so that means the curses were culminative by the time of gal 3:13, because the whole adamic creation went to the cross, the body of sin destroyed, Rom 6:6, so that covers all.

As far as condemnation, and justification, all were condemned legally judicially in adam, under curses from the beginning , so the justification in the same verse, was antedated to pre law adam, we were justified from the original condemnation, and from all it's curses, not just those of the book of the law in Gal 3:13. Rom 3:25 shows that the cross went backwards in time also, as far as the redemption.


Rom 3:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.


All condemned in Adam, all justified from that sin, and it's curses that were even pre law.

GreatistheLord said:

We can choose to live in the flesh or in the spirit, the world can choose to live in the kingdom or not. we can choose supernatural life, or religion. There will come a time when the curse will be finished on the earth, when it passes away and judgement comes instead. Until then, those who are *in Christ* have no more curse put on them by God, the devil will try and continue to curse you - our job is to resist - James 4:7

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How do you resist thorns and thistles growing on your property? I have to bush-hog the pasture with a tractor to cut them down every year. They don't care that the property owners are Christians! They still grow on the property hense the curses over the earth made at Eden are still in effect. Women still have pain in childbirth.

The point is not all curses are done away with. It is the curse of being perfect under the law that was done away with, not ALL curses. You violate Yah's law and you will reap the consequences.

Yahu said:

How do you resist thorns and thistles growing on your property? I have to bush-hog the pasture with a tractor to cut them down every year. They don't care that the property owners are Christians! They still grow on the property hense the curses over the earth made at Eden are still in effect. Women still have pain in childbirth.

The point is not all curses are done away with. It is the curse of being perfect under the law that was done away with, not ALL curses. You violate Yah's law and you will reap the consequences.

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The curse of weeds and of physical death (the Flood) came by the sinfulness of mankind. Jesus did away with the curse of the sins of the individual -pain in childbirth is an example. To neglect what Jesus did for us is to neglect the greatness of the salvation that we have.

TasManOfGod said:

The curse of weeds and of physical death (the Flood) came by the sinfulness of mankind. Jesus did away with the curse of the sins of the individual -pain in childbirth is an example. To neglect what Jesus did for us is to neglect the greatness of the salvation that we have.

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IMO it is hiding your head in the sand because you don't know consequences when it is right in front of you. You are disregarding the consequences of sin that still exists while claiming it doesn't and having faith in your own claims.

IMO it is one of WoFs most ridiculous doctrines that all curses are gone while justifying totally tossing out the old testament and the instructions provided to the people as irrelevant. It is just a justification to live in sin without any 'fear of Yah'. Scripture calls that a lack of wisdom, ie foolishness. The 'fear of Yah' is the knowledge of the consequences of sin and acting rightly as a result which is the beginning of wisdom. Don't let the flesh rule because there are consequences of your actions.

I don't neglect the greatness of salvation. I just don't use salvation as a license to sin whereas denying the curses involved with sin is error IMO. I'm not foolish enough to believe such a ridiculous doctrine.

While people still die, we are all under a curse for the consequences of sin. There are no more curses when there is no more death.

GreatistheLord said:

Plants are not cursed because they dont fit in with your garden, or prickly.

I said that God does not put the curse on those in Christ, the curse is still on the Earth, and will be until the end. The devil will never stop trying to afflict believers.

God has chosen that our fight is spiritual, and that through prayer and faith, we can remove the illegal effects of the curse in our life. It is our choice, and our process to do this. Does sin in our life deny that we are redeemed - no. Neither do the effects of the curse mean that we are subject to it.

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The Law of reaping and sowing is still in effect. If we sow to the flesh, we still reap corruption. Our salvation does NOT invalidate that law.

Those 'in Christ' are those with wisdom (and a fear of Yah) that follow the guidance of the Spirit and don't fall into error thus are free from the consequences but we are never totally 'in Christ' until we are in the eternal kingdom.

If you commit adultery, I guarantee there will be a curse on your life that opens the door to attack by the enemy that is allowed by Yah.

Yahu said:

IMO it is hiding your head in the sand because you don't know consequences when it is right in front of you. You are disregarding the consequences of sin that still exists while claiming it doesn't and having faith in your own claims.

IMO it is one of WoFs most ridiculous doctrines that all curses are gone while justifying totally tossing out the old testament and the instructions provided to the people as irrelevant. It is just a justification to live in sin without any 'fear of Yah'. Scripture calls that a lack of wisdom, ie foolishness. The 'fear of Yah' is the knowledge of the consequences of sin and acting rightly as a result which is the beginning of wisdom. Don't let the flesh rule because there are consequences of your actions.

I don't neglect the greatness of salvation. I just don't use salvation as a license to sin whereas denying the curses involved with sin is error IMO. I'm not foolish enough to believe such a ridiculous doctrine.

While people still die, we are all under a curse for the consequences of sin. There are no more curses when there is no more death.

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The is a difference in the covering of sin or atonement of the old covenent through animal sacrifices and the wiping out or redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in the covenant that we have. This is not ridiculus doctrine as you would suppose but that which God ordained and paid heavily for. Is it a licence to sin? No Of course not. Either Jesus became a curse for us or He didn't, however according to the Word He did. Does that mean that we automatically receive his redemption -No like everything else about the Cross we have to believe and receive. It does make believing very difficult for many however when there is such a confused lot of teaching.
Death should never be considered a curse to a believer but rather a mere component of the eternal salvation that begun at Calvary.

TasManOfGod said:

The is a difference in the covering of sin or atonement of the old covenent through animal sacrifices and the wiping out or redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in the covenant that we have. This is not ridiculus doctrine as you would suppose but that which God ordained and paid heavily for. Is it a licence to sin? No Of course not. Either Jesus became a curse for us or He didn't, however according to the Word He did. Does that mean that we automatically receive his redemption -No like everything else about the Cross we have to believe and receive. It does make believing very difficult for many however when there is such a confused lot of teaching.
Death should never be considered a curse to a believer but rather a mere component of the eternal salvation that begun at Calvary.

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Ga 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

We can still reap corruption.

Ac 13:37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

We are resurrected into the incorruption. We do not achieve it until then.

Ro 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

We are delivered from the BONDAGE of corruption, not from corruption. It is the bondage that can be removed. It is that bondage that was defeated, not the corruption itself. We can be freed from the consequences of the curse IF we repent of the acts of the flesh.

These verses show that we don't get that incorruptible state until the resurrection, not at salvation. We are still capable of sowing to the flesh and reaping the consequences. Yes we can repent of individual sins in our life and be freed from those consequences in this life. The eternal price has been paid but not the physical consequences in this life. For example, if you sleep around, you can still get an STD. That is a curse. Yes, we can repent of that action and get healing but salvation doesn't pay the earthly penalty for our actions. It pays the eternal price but individual repentance covers the individual consequences of sin. If you murder someone in this life, it doesn't matter if you repent because the state will still extract the consequences.

If you sow to the flesh, you will still reap the corruption in this life regardless if you are saved or not.