Job ~ Did he know the commandments of God?

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 27, 2012

Frogster said:
i guess job had the 613?

Better him than me

http://www.christianforums.com/t7644085/
Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

I put this one together using reftagger. I copied it from Wiki but added the function of reftagger. Hover your mouse over each verse citation to read it without clicking it. Very educational and should be wonderful for those who wish to wallow in the Law...

http://www.summascriptura.com/613/

Isatis · Aug 27, 2012

JohnRabbit said:
i've read that moses is attributed to writing the book possibly during the time he was in midian.

job apparently lived during abraham's time or thereabouts.

There is no consensus about who wrote the Book of Job (or even when it was written). Suggestions include Job himself, Elihu, Solomon and Moses as you mentioned.

DeaconDean said:
I'm not gonna argue, but only present evidence that the scriptures have.

I don't know whether it is the same Job or not but Job is mentioned in scriptures as having lived after the flood, but before the commandments were given at Mt. Sinai:

"And these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt, Jacob and his sons: Reuben, Jacob's firstborn. And the sons of Reuben; Hanoch, and Phallu, and Hezron, and Carmi. And the sons of Simeon; Jemuel, and Jamin, and Ohad, and Jachin, and Zohar, and Shaul the son of a Canaanitish woman. And the sons of Levi; Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. And the sons of Judah; Er, and Onan, and Shelah, and Pharez, and Zarah: but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan. And the sons of Pharez were Hezron and Hamul. And the sons of Issachar; Tola, and Phuvah, and Job, and Shimron." -Gen. 46:8-13 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

Job in verse 13 above is spelled Jashub in Numbers 26:24 and 1 Chronicles 7:1

JohnRabbit · Aug 27, 2012

Isatis said:
There is no consensus about who wrote the Book of Job (or even when it was written). Suggestions include Job himself, Elihu, Solomon and Moses as you mentioned.

Job in verse 13 above is spelled Jashub in Numbers 26:24 and 1 Chronicles 7:1

you are correct about the consensus.

i offered what i was able to find and there seems to more questions about it's author and time frame than there are answers.

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 27, 2012

Job ~ Did he know the commandments of God?

Originally Posted by Isatis

Click to expand...

There is no consensus about who wrote the Book of Job (or even when it was written). Suggestions include Job himself, Elihu, Solomon and Moses as you mentioned.

Where did Job learn about providing sacrifices to atone for the sins of his sons?

Job 1:5 And so it was, when the days of the banquet came round, that Job sent and hallowed them
and rising early in the morning offered ascending-sacrifices according to the number of them all
for Job said "Peradventure my sons have sinned, and have cursed 'Elohiym in their hearts".
Thus and thus, was Job wont to do all the days.

Kindgdom Bible Studies Job

It is believed that the book of Job is the most ancient of the inspired writings we have come to know as the Bible. It predates the first five books of the Bible, the books of Moses, and its exact origin is a mystery. We do not know who wrote the book of Job: no information is given us on this point either in the book itself or elsewhere. The book of Job just appeared on the scene, it came out of antiquity, it emerged from the mists of obscurity, and has always been a part of human history. It was just there!

It was there before Moses. It was there, perhaps, before Abraham. We cannot tell when Job lived. The scene of the book of Job is laid in Arabia in the remote Patriarchal period. The story begins simply: There was a man. Since a parable (II Sam. 12:1) and a history (I Sam. 25:2) begin with this same simple phrase, the style does not indicate whether Job was meant to be fact or allegory.

Fireinfolding · Aug 27, 2012

weathered said:
Actualy maybe Job was a prophet?

Jas 5:10 Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.
Jas_5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Would appear so.

Here we know Abraham is a prophet, also called a servant

Of Abraham...

Gen 20:7 Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.

Gen 26:24 And the LORD appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

As with Abraham (a prophet) likewise called a servant God said he will pray for you, the same also with Job

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

Jobs freinds had to take an offering of bullocks and rams and Job also was to pray for them (for him) I will accept He said
　
Job 42:8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you:for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

And we got the seven bullocks and rams for a burnt offering there. Though the verse you shared seems to imply Job as a prophet, in the sense it follows him up after saying, "take" (for an example) the prophets and pulls in Job (there).

YosemiteSam · Aug 27, 2012

Liking the feed back thus far...thanks!

Frogster · Aug 27, 2012

LittleLambofJesus said:
Better him than me

http://www.christianforums.com/t7644085/
Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

good one...
it would be worse than a job trial to live uner 613.

DeaconDean · Aug 27, 2012

Isatis said:
Job in verse 13 above is spelled Jashub in Numbers 26:24 and 1 Chronicles 7:1

You say tomato, I say tomatoe.

Like I said, I'm not gonna argue.

Jashub

In Bible versions:

Jashub: NET AVS NIV NRSV NASB TEV
Iob: AVS NIV NRSV NASB TEV

son of Issachar
son of Issachar son of Israel
a layman of the Bani clan who put away his heathen wife
a returning; a controversy; a dwelling place

Hebrew

Strongs #03102: bwy Yowb

Job = "persecuted"

1) the 3rd son of Issachar also called 'Jashub' 3102 Yowb yobe

perhaps a form of 3103, but more probably by erroneous
transcription for 3437; Job, an Israelite:-Job.
see HEBREW for 03103
see HEBREW for 03437
Strongs #03437: bwvy Yashuwb or byvy Yashiyb

Jashub = "he will return"

1) the 3rd son of Issachar and founder of the family of Jashubites
2) one of the sons of Bani who had to put away a foreign wife in the
time of Ezra 3437 Yashuwb yaw-shoob'

or Yashiyb {yaw-sheeb'}; from 7725; he will return; Jashub,
the name of two Israelites:-Jashub.
see HEBREW for 07725

Jashub [EBD]

returner. (1.) The third of Issachar's four sons (1 Chr. 7:1); called also Job (Gen. 46:13). (2.) Ezra 10:29.

Jashub [NAVE]

JASHUB
1. Son of Issachar, Num. 26:24; 1 Chr. 7:1.
Called Job in Gen. 46:13.
2. Of the family of Bani, Ezra 10:29.
JASHUB [SMITH]

(he turns).

The third son of Issachar, and founder of the family of the Jashubites. (Numbers 26;24; 1ÃÂ Chronicles 7:1) (B.C. 1706.)

One of the sons of Bani, who had to put away his foreign wife. (Ezra 10:29) (B.C. 459.)

IOB [ISBE]

IOB - yob (yobh; the King James Version Job): Third son of Issachar (Gen 46:13). In parallel passages (Nu 26:24; 1 Ch 7:1) the name is Jashub (yashubh), which the versions in Gen also support as the correct form.

JASHUB [ISBE]

JASHUB - ja'-shub, jash'-ub (yashubh; yashibh, in Chronicles, but Qere, yashubh, "he returns"):
(1) In Nu 26:24; 1 Ch 7:1, a "son" (clan) of Issachar. Gen 46:13 has incorrectly Iob, but Septuagint Jashub.
(2) In Ezr 10:29, one of those who had married foreign wives = "Jasubus" in 1 Esdras 9:30.
(3) In Isa 7:3, part of the name SHEAR-JASHUB (which see).

Source

I presented evidence to Job in Gen. 46:13 and I stand by it.

I shall now take my leave as I can see where this is going.

God Bless

Till all are one.

YosemiteSam · Aug 27, 2012

Receive, I pray you, the law (torah) from his mouth, and lay up his words in your heart. KJ Job 22:22

What I find interesting is that Job appears to have known the law even before the books of Moses were written...As a matter of fact you can see that Job kept every one of the commandments before Sinai...

Here's another Job 36:9-12 "then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to instruction and commands that they return from iniquity. If they listen and serve him, they complete their days in prosperity. and their years in pleasantness. But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword and die without knowledge."

King James renders the above...v 11 "If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment."

The verses above sure say alot...but what about 42:4-6 "Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me. I had hear of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The word of God was being preached even in Jobs day...and Job repented of sin (which is a transgression of the law 1 jn 3:4)

I think weathered found where Job was called a prophet. (Great job weathered)

How could Job obey God if there was no law? What would he obey. Paul wrote "...where there is no law there is no transgression." The above verses clearly talk about transgression!

Frogster · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Receive, I pray you, the law (torah) from his mouth, and lay up his words in your heart. KJ Job 22:22

What I find interesting is that Job appears to have known the law even before the books of Moses were written...As a matter of fact you can see that Job kept every one of the commandments before Sinai...

Here's another Job 36:9-12 "then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to instruction and commands that they return from iniquity. If they listen and serve him, they complete their days in prosperity. and their years in pleasantness. But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword and die without knowledge."

King James renders the above...v 11 "If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment."

The verses above sure say alot...but what about 42:4-6 "Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me. I had hear of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The word of God was being preached even in Jobs day...and Job repented of sin (which is a transgression of the law 1 jn 3:4)

I think weathered found where Job was called a prophet. (Great job weathered)

How could Job obey God if there was no law? What would he obey. Paul wrote "...where there is no law there is no transgression." The above verses clearly talk about transgression!

because when the vast amount of clear overt text indicates job did not have torah, that would indicate that people have to fish around, to prove he did.

Frogster · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Receive, I pray you, the law (torah) from his mouth, and lay up his words in your heart. KJ Job 22:22

What I find interesting is that Job appears to have known the law even before the books of Moses were written...As a matter of fact you can see that Job kept every one of the commandments before Sinai...

Here's another Job 36:9-12 "then he declares to them their work and their transgressions, that they are behaving arrogantly. He opens their ears to instruction and commands that they return from iniquity. If they listen and serve him, they complete their days in prosperity. and their years in pleasantness. But if they do not listen, they perish by the sword and die without knowledge."

King James renders the above...v 11 "If they obey and serve him, they will spend the rest of their days in prosperity and their years in contentment."

The verses above sure say alot...but what about 42:4-6 "Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me. I had hear of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you; therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes."

The word of God was being preached even in Jobs day...and Job repented of sin (which is a transgression of the law 1 jn 3:4)

I think weathered found where Job was called a prophet. (Great job weathered)

How could Job obey God if there was no law? What would he obey. Paul wrote "...where there is no law there is no transgression." The above verses clearly talk about transgression!

in job 22;22 it can just mean instruction, but to act like he had the torah is absurd.

if the torah was pre sinai, you have to rip out romans 5.

how can paul use abe, to ward off torah in galatians, if abe had torah

Isatis · Aug 27, 2012

DeaconDean said:
Like I said, I'm not gonna argue.

Good!

ananda · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Receive, I pray you, the law (torah) from his mouth, and lay up his words in your heart. KJ Job 22:22 ... What I find interesting is that Job appears to have known the law even before the books of Moses were written...As a matter of fact you can see that Job kept every one of the commandments before Sinai...

Job not only trusted in YHWH, but he walked in repentance and obedience to Him and His commandments, just like Messiah did (perfectly). What wonderful role-models for our faith!

How could Job obey God if there was no law? What would he obey.

Frogster · Aug 27, 2012

netzarim said:
Job not only trusted in YHWH, but he walked in repentance and obedience to Him and His commandments, just like Messiah did (perfectly). What wonderful role-models for our faith!

instructions are not always torah. abe went out, is that a torah law?

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 27, 2012

Originally Posted by netzarim Job not only trusted in YHWH, but he walked in repentance and obedience to Him and His commandments, just like Messiah did (perfectly). What wonderful role-models for our faith!

Which begs the question :angel:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7683322/
What significance does Job hold for Christians today?

Isatis · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Receive, I pray you, the law (torah) from his mouth, and lay up his words in your heart. KJ Job 22:22

Correct! based on the Hebrew text analysis here Job 22:22 Hebrew Texts and Analysis and this Hebrew Concordance: tÅÂ·wÂ·rÄh -- 23 Occurrences

YosemiteSam said:
What I find interesting is that Job appears to have known the law even before the books of Moses were written...As a matter of fact you can see that Job kept every one of the commandments before Sinai...

It simply gives us more clues on when this book may have been written, don't you think so?

YosemiteSam said:
How could Job obey God if there was no law? What would he obey. Paul wrote "...where there is no law there is no transgression." The above verses clearly talk about transgression!

Same as above, more clues to consider.

There is strong literary evidence that the Book of Job was compiled and written during the time of Solomon, when wisdom literature flourished.
The mention of iron tools and weapons (Job 19:24;20:24;40:18) and even mining (28:2) implies a date during the Iron Age (after 1200 B.C). Moreover, the description of a horse in a military context (39:19-25) may indicate the mounted warhorse, which was used at the earliest around the tenth century B.C. Furthermore, at least two passages in Job may allude to biblical passages from the Solomonic era (compare Job 7:17,18 with Psalms 8:4; compare Job 28:28 with Proverbs 3:7;9:10). These various strands of evidence may indicate that Job was written around Solomon's reign.
Source: NKJV study Bible

YosemiteSam · Aug 27, 2012

Isatis said:
Correct! based on the Hebrew text analysis here Job 22:22 Hebrew Texts and Analysis and this Hebrew Concordance: tÅÂ·wÂ·rÄh -- 23 Occurrences

It simply gives us more clues on when this book may have been written, don't you think so?

Same as above, more clues to consider.

There is strong literary evidence that the Book of Job was compiled and written during the time of Solomon, when wisdom literature flourished.
The mention of iron tools and weapons (Job 19:24;20:24;40:18) and even mining (28:2) implies a date during the Iron Age (after 1200 B.C). Moreover, the description of a horse in a military context (39:19-25) may indicate the mounted warhorse, which was used at the earliest around the tenth century B.C. Furthermore, at least two passages in Job may allude to biblical passages from the Solomonic era (compare Job 7:17,18 with Psalms 8:4; compare Job 28:28 with Proverbs 3:7;9:10). These various strands of evidence may indicate that Job was written around Solomon's reign.
Source: NKJV study Bible

Regardless of when it was written it is speaking of a time prior to the writings of the book of Moses. We just need to remember that God inspired its writing. We also should remember that prior to Moses God dealt also directly with those He called. (I heard of you by the hearing of the ear but now my eyes sees you) An awesome record for us! It is amazing while looking for the laws (which Job kept all of them) that we can understand that God really is the same yesterday , today and forever...

Frogster · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Regardless of when it was written it is speaking of a time prior to the writings of the book of Moses. We just need to remember that God inspired its writing. We also should remember that prior to Moses God dealt also directly with those He called. (I heard of you by the hearing of the ear but now my eyes sees you) An awesome record for us! It is amazing while looking for the laws (which Job kept all of them) that we can understand that God really is the same yesterday , today and forever...

DEFINE "ALL"?

YosemiteSam · Aug 27, 2012

Frogster said:
in job 22;22 it can just mean instruction, but to act like he had the torah is absurd.

if the torah was pre sinai, you have to rip out romans 5.

how can paul use abe, to ward off torah in galatians, if abe had torah

And instruction can mean law, will, desire, commandment. funny that in Job 22.22 the aramaic word meands law. Abraham kept my commandments, my statues and my judgements Gen 26:5

The word of God was probably spoken before God guided Moses to write the first five books. Look what Job says, "Remember to extol his work, of which men have sung..."

It is no doubt that God revealed His ways to those he called. And Job knew not to lie, to steal, murder, commit adultery...Why? Simply because that is what God expected of him after revealing Himself and His ways. His commandments which are holy just and good, stand fast forever and ever.

So to answer your answer, yes the torah (law) existed prior to Sinai and I dont have to rip out Rom 5 I just have to understand.

Isatis · Aug 27, 2012

YosemiteSam said:
Regardless of when it was written it is speaking of a time prior to the writings of the book of Moses.

What? What do you mean by "regardless", if the book of Job was written after the Pentateuch, then it makes sense that Job kept the Torah.
Or are you saying that he was obeying before hearing?

Job ~ Did he know the commandments of God?

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