Truth hurts

Helpme22

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I had a chat with my husband last night about my therapy sessions. As you will see in a previous thread, we have many challenges. One of which is money. We are seriously in debt. I am the breadwinner but I recently got transferred to a new city with better hours and less money. The city and lifestyle are much better but I am scared about money. It's tight despite the fact we still have $$$ car loans and $$$$ rent. They are obligations we can't get out of because we are upside down on the cars.

Anyway, my husband responded to concerns by blaming me. He said "if you didn't have to take that pay hit and then move to a state with such a high tax..."

The "transfer" was very difficult on me so I felt that was a low blow. I asked him to pick up part time work. He ignored me and said that my ebook that was been pushing me to write is SO good, it's going to be a mega seller. He just said "keep writing".
 

makeitwork

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break it down...if you have two cars do you really need to have 2? that means 2 car insurances, gas, parking... he needs to work it doesn't matter if its mcdonalds...do you eat out? start cooking and bringing food from home to work...do you go to starbuck? stop and make your own coffee from home...find areas that you can change...you'll be surprise how much you will be saving in just one week..hope this helps thanks for sharing.
 
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Helpme22

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He does work a full time job. We just need more. We also need to keep paying on the cars. We are upside down on them. We have no choice.

I also just found a fairly old Facebook message on his phone history with a woman he knew in high school. They went back and forth ... Definitely flirting. He told her the same things he always told me. In fact he said that things were tough because of personal issues but that his wife (me) was good to put up with him. He then said that he was drawn to me because of the same reasons he was drawn to her. Then went on to say that she had a beautiful smile and that she always seemed so happy. I don't know if they are still talking. But this definitely hurt my feelings.
 
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Helpme22

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It's true. I am certain I'm getting a taste of my own medicine.

However I think right now I have to deal with finances first. I sat down and did the budget. Here's the thing. We moved into a new lease that would work bevausr he told me that his parents wanted to pay for our sons private school education. It amounts to about 1500 a month. So we moved closer to the school (further from work for me) and then he said his parents were only giving us a total of 1k. Total. Now we are obligated to this school and we moved into a new lease because of it. He refuses to take the penalty and put him in public school. So I told him I would need to file bankruptcy unless he made up the extra money. He said his best answer is going straight from his day job to sweeping floors overnights at Walmart. 80 hr week. No sleep.

Mind you this is the same guy that just turned down freelance work for a day at 800.00 for the day. He is acting like a child. Says "he will do his best".

I mean what do I do with that?
 
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Helpme22

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If I tell him about infidelity from years ago... It will only cause more stress and childish antics from him.

How does a grown man/father avoid helping the family from bankruptcy and threatens to work sweeping floors at walmart instead? He is obviously not serious. I said "ok" why don't you do that. We need any money we can get". Then he said no... No. I couldn't do that. I think you will have to file bankruptcy. I have to file alone because he has already filed in e before.

I don't think I can deal with this lack of leadership anymore
 
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sdmsanjose

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The financial situation

Your husband has a full time job
You have a full time job but recently took a job with less pay
You are both in financial trouble
He has already filed bankruptcy and now you are going to file bankruptcy
Neither one of you have a second job
You husband refuses to put your child in public school that will save $500 monthly

Will the reduction of the $500 obligation save the financial situation?

It appears that you have both failed to be good with money.

If the $500 savings in school costs will save your financial situation then your husband is failing to do what is necessary to keep your finances above water.

If the $500 savings is not enough to save your financial situation then one or both of you will have to get a second job or find another way to cut expenses. Finally, if all fails then you have no choice but to file bankruptcy.

I am sure you already know all of this . It seems like you are trying to put all the blame on yur hsuband. He may have some of the blame but you said that you are the main bread winner. If you are the main bread winner did you have anything to do with the finacial mess that you are in?





Relationship situation
"I don't think I can deal with this lack of leadership anymore"
If you are referring to divorce then your husband’s financial inadequacy is not grounds for divorce but adultery is according to the Bible.

You blame your husband for your financial situation which you are also partly responsible and you had an adulterous affair in the past. Do you resent your husband? It seems like you are wanting to get out of your marriage
 
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Helpme22

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Thank you for your reply. I just want to point out that I have a full time job and have 2 side projects that bring in an additional 2k a month. That's just to keep us afloat as it is. The tuition issue is that I paid 15k out of pocket with the expectation that my husbands parents were going to be paying me back. Now, they are not. They are only paying 500 instead. My husband won't get an extra job like I have for the past year. He simply threatens to go sweep floors overnights at Walmart. When I said "ok we need the money" and called him on his bluff... He said he can't.

We have BOTH failed. I have enabled and I'm trying to improve. But we keep getting deeper in the hole (now thanks to his parents) and now he won't help me try to turn the ship around. I am working 65 hrs a week in BOTh jobs and all I want to do is be a Mom to our son who barely sees me because of it.
 
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sdmsanjose

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The financial issue right now:
If the $500 savings is not enough to save your financial situation then one or both of you will have to get a second job or find another way to cut expenses. Finally, if all fails then you have no choice but to file bankruptcy.

The financial issue in the future:
You and your husband need to have someone (professional) help you with financial decisions. You both have proven that your financial decisions are poor as he has filed for bankruptcy and you seem to be headed that way also. Get some good financial advice and DO WHAT THEY SUGGEST. I know that you and your husband want to make all your financial decisions but your history has shown you to be inadequate.

My guess is by what you wrote is that your family income is at least 85,000 maybe more.

My son and his wife make around $85,000 a year and they have three children in private school at around $4,000 each for a total of 12,000 per year. They also have a mortgage on a 4 bedroom home and a new car payment an all the rest. They have never filed bankruptcy and have moved from a $300,000 home into a manufactured home in a subdivision that is barely a middle income subdivision. It s not in the best part of town. My son also drives a 25 year old paid car because he refuses to go in debt and he knows that they can only afford one newer car with payments.

They now have enough money that they can help their grown son with car repairs and hire him for extra work around the home.

I can not help but think that you two have a beer paycheck but want to have a champaign life. In other words with your family income you could be in much better financial shape if you bought what you could afford and adjusted your life style.

If I am correct and you make around $85,000 year or more then you just need to adjust your wants and living style. Not a pleasant thing to do but many have done it and so can you.

I know that you are mostly concerned with your finances now but it seems that you have a much more serious family problem. That problem involves you and your husband and an attitude that is not healthy.

Your financial situation can be dealt with by you and your husband changing your lifestyle. Your family unity is in worst shape than your financial situation. Did you avoid my earlier question on purpose? That question was
Do you resent your husband?

It is very hard if not impossible to work as a team on finances and other family issues when there is resentment between the husband and wife.
 
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Helpme22

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Do I resent my husband? The answer is probably yes. I don't know how to make that go away. As much as I try and pray about it and get it to lift -- he does something else to further the blow.
he knew that I had the appt today with the bankruptcy attorney. Did he offer. No] Did he even text or call to see how it went? No. He didn't.[bless and do not curse] When I told him HOW it went and that it was going to be really tough, and that I was having trouble dealing -- he said "yeah, I know I felt like a felon when I went through mine, too." Then he said that he saw they were looking for holiday help overnights at Target and that he could try and work 90 hours a week (with 40 overnights at minimum wage) if I wanted.[bless and do not curse] Of course he wasn't serious.[bless and do not curse] I called him kindly on his bluff.[bless and do not curse] I said - if that's what you think needs to be done, that please --[bless and do not curse] he then came back with...no...sorry.[bless and do not curse] I don't htink I could do that.[bless and do not curse] Of course not![bless and do not curse] You were just trying to play me.[bless and do not curse]
[bless and do not curse]
So, tonight he called his dad and asked him for money.[bless and do not curse] Ding Ding Ding. He got it.[bless and do not curse] Now he thinks that everything is JUST fine.[bless and do not curse] He didn't understand why I still felt concerned.[bless and do not curse] We aren't getting enough money to even cover our son's tuition - but he thinks it should keep me off his back.[bless and do not curse]
[bless and do not curse]
So - yes.[bless and do not curse] I make more than 6 figures.[bless and do not curse] It sounds easy to cut back and make it work.[bless and do not curse] But when you have so many bills -- it is just like living on a much smaller salary.[bless and do not curse] We can't sell our cars - they are leased and we would get sued.[bless and do not curse] We are renting our house and can't get out of that lease or we will get sued.[bless and do not curse] We could stop paying our creditors..but that will just continue to end in bankruptcy.[bless and do not curse] So - it may SOUND great that I (we) make a lot -- but the mistakes of the past are haunting us.
[bless and do not curse]
Do I truly want to leave my son in a broken home?[bless and do not curse] Absolutely not.[bless and do not curse] I don't even know how I would tell him that we are going to have to move out of this new house we JUST moved into -- that he adores.
[bless and do not curse]
I have several choices.[bless and do not curse] I could file bankruptcy and try to keep my husband on a tight leash.[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] That would be exactly what he wants.[bless and do not curse] He wants all the bills to go away and the pressure to be off.
[bless and do not curse]
OR -- I could not file and live in financial agony with him -- and our son.[bless and do not curse]
[bless and do not curse]
OR -- I could file and start over without my husband in the marriage.[bless and do not curse]
[bless and do not curse]
I honestly don't know what to choose tonight.[bless and do not curse] I was planning on having a heart to heart with him tonight.[bless and do not curse] But, he wouldn't allow it.[bless and do not curse] I wanted to air out everything and tell him that I do feel resentment toward him for a number of things...and that I feel I have a wandering eye...because we are so split and living seperate emotionless lives.[bless and do not curse] But,[bless and do not curse] I think he will either threaten suicide or completely shut down.[bless and do not curse] However - it needs to be said.[bless and do not curse]
 
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LinkH

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Have you met with the companies that leased you the cars, yet? You could tell them that you are meeting with a bankruptcy attorney, and you are wondering if you could just work something out with them where you could get out of the lease. What if you just paid a couple of hundred a month in penalties?

If that works out, go on Craiglist and see what you can get for $5k-$10k.

If you could make the budget work without the monthly drain of leased cars, then you can keep the house for the term of the lease. Moving is expensive, tiring, and is a major time sink. If you can tough the year out paying for the house you don't have the time to enjoy because you are always out of it earning the money to pay for it, then you can get into a sensible home.

My guess is my family of six could probably get by in one of the most expensive cities in the US just by spending your rent and maybe one of your car payments.

Research shows that after your home size reaches a certain level for minimum comfort, a larger house does not add to your overall happiness. A more balanced life in terms of working hours will make your family happier than a bigger home. That's something to think about next time.

I don't see how breaking up and adding another residence will help with the financial issue either.

It sounds to me like you are making a lot of the financial decisions. You also seem to be blaming your husband for the mess you are in. Did you decide to lease the house and cars, or was that all his decisions. ("Hi, Honey, I just signed a lease on this house and these two cars, today. What did you do today?")
 
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Helpme22

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I tried to talk to my husband about all of this tonight. He won't talk about it. I asked him if we could agree that the cars would be let go during the bankruptcy.
That way we could get cash cars. He said no. He felt that they would be money pits. I asked him if we could talk to our landlord about finding a replacement tenant so we could move into cheaper. He said he doesn't want to move again and we should just pay the 3800 a month in rent.


I also requested we go to church and pray about this. He said "maybe over the weekend".

So I'm pretty much stuck.
 
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IMHO.. you are only as stuck as you let him make you be. You have just as much control over this situation as he does.

I'd think you could find a local accountant to talk to for advice at this point, and found out if taking both cars to the dealership and rolling them over for a lower end, high efficiency older model might be advantageous or not, and how to keep from going into bankruptcy which takes a while to a) get out of and b) wipe away.

He's being a patoot, but you don't have to be one back at all. But, you don't have to pay for his mistakes either, while trying to work through.

Are you still getting counseling? I'm thinking venting your frustration at this point over the whole deal for trained constructive criticism might be a good idea.
 
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Helpme22

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I talked this morning with my husband about how I felt he wasn't being a teammate when I need to rely in him for help. I told him I knew he was full of empty promises with the "overnight stock" job and he just glared at me.

He then accused me of having credit cards that he didn't know about. Which I told him that I do NOT and that was why I wanted him to come to the bankruptcy meeting WITH me. He just glared. He said he just didn't understand. I said that's why I want him to sit down with me and go through it. Then he glared. You get the picture.

I told him that I feel resentful that we've been down this road before and he makes empty threats like "buying a scooter" instead of a car. He said "do you really need to bring that up again? You like rubbing my nose in it?". I said I wouldn't if you didn't continue to make empty threats...

That was it. He glared at me and said he had to go. Then he muttered something about canceling the phone service.

How do I work on this issue with him... When that is what I get?
 
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sdmsanjose

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I tried to talk to my husband about all of this tonight. He won't talk about it. I asked him if we could agree that the cars would be let go during the bankruptcy.
That way we could get cash cars. He said no. He felt that they would be money pits. I asked him if we could talk to our landlord about finding a replacement tenant so we could move into cheaper. He said he doesn't want to move again and we should just pay the 3800 a month in rent.


I also requested we go to church and pray about this. He said "maybe over the weekend".

So I'm pretty much stuck.




I talked this morning with my husband about how I felt he wasn't being a teammate when I need to rely in him for help. I told him I knew he was full of empty promises with the "overnight stock" job and he just glared at me.

He then accused me of having credit cards that he didn't know about. Which I told him that I do NOT and that was why I wanted him to come to the bankruptcy meeting WITH me. He just glared. He said he just didn't understand. I said that's why I want him to sit down with me and go through it. Then he glared. You get the picture.

I told him that I feel resentful that we've been down this road before and he makes empty threats like "buying a scooter" instead of a car. He said "do you really need to bring that up again? You like rubbing my nose in it?". I said I wouldn't if you didn't continue to make empty threats...

That was it. He glared at me and said he had to go. Then he muttered something about canceling the phone service.

How do I work on this issue with him... When that is what I get?




Your husband is the very opposite of a solution partner. He kills all your financial solutions. You must be right he is all hot air and no action.

You are resentful and have a wondering eye.

You both have allowed yourselves to try and live way over your means. Our household makes a lot less than your household. We have a very nice home, three cars that are all over 5 years old, have all the necessities of life and some luxuries. You both sound like you are either greedy for more than you can afford or are too material minded.

Paying $3800 a month for rent and then complaining that you have financial problems tells me you both are financial disasters. I am in properly management and you can get a very nice apartment for $1000 to $1500 a month and is in Arizona. You can get a decent apartment for $1500 in any state.

You both agree to lease two new cars? What is wrong with a 5 year old car that you can own in a very short time? You paid $15,000 cash for the private school? I paid $15,000 for my used vehicle 15 years old and I still have it and drive it to work every day. It is nice that you want your child to go to private school but because of your inadequate financial management you have put that in real jeopardy.

You both need to make some serious changes for the better QUICKLY. It is obvious that you both are not going to work as a team to solve this so a third party counselor/therapist is a must. Remember that you BOTH have to do what the counselor says; you have tried it your way and it is a total failure.

Your husband is a real detrement to problem solving and is even part of the problem. You are a resentful woman with a wondereing eye that has allowed your family to get in financial trouble when it could have been avoided.

Make some real changes and get professional help NOW!


Yes "The Truth Hurts" the Truth rally does Hurt sometimes. However it can be a hurt that leads to getting better if you are willing to make th right changes
 
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LinkH

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How good are you with spreadsheets?

Whether you use spreadsheets (easy) or paper, you both need to sit down and calculate out all the items in your budget and come up with a scenario where it works out. If he thinks you have credit cards and you don't, it sounds like he isn't doing the math. Is anyone counting how much you spend? You don't have to count if you are living below your means, but that doesn't mean it's still a good idea.

Set targets for how much you want to give to the church, how much you want to save, too. Work out your temporary budget for now, and the budget you would like to live under for the future.

If you want to talk him into a different arrangement for the cars, you may need to do some research on how much the average repair cost is for a car of a certain brand that is X number of years old. You don't want to get an old Jaguar. You could spend a lot on repairs. You don't want to buy an old Lexus because, even though they are made with excellence, if you do have to repair it-- or maybe even get an oil change-- it requires special tools and a special technician, I hear-- the cost of the precision with which the engine is made.

I have a 2001 Town & Country. It has about 97000 on it and I've driven it for three years now. My wife found a great deal on it. I think we paid $3500. Not counting maintenance (oil changes), I think I've put about $1000 in repairs into it over a three year period. I don't have collision on it either. If you get an old car, an emergency fund for another old car makes more sense than collision insurance, IMO.

The danger with old cars is they can break down when you need them. But they are so much cheaper, you can buy a $1500 car as a backup. Cars under $3000 are pretty liquid. If they are in decent shape and have A/C (in the summer) you can flip them on Craigslist pretty quickly, too.

I've got a friend who had a high paying job who went to Bible college. He spent half his money on a fancy German car and bought high quality stuff. He is moving back to get a job again because God did not miraculously provide. We have to make due with what we are provided and live within our means.

I think you need to convince your husband to look at the numbers. Show him some scenarios with the cheaper cars and see what he says. If he doesn't like it, ask him sometime when he has some time to sit down, go through the numbers and come up with another scenario that works. If you live in a place with bad public schools, I know you want to pay the tuition for your son. If I were you, and I could make it work to keep the lease, I probably would just to avoid a move. I live in a city where it is really hard to get an agent just to show you a place-- and just about everything is tied up by these slow agents. It's just not worth the time and hassle to move. Time costs money too, especially if you have to take off of work. When the lease is up, you can try to find a cheaper place. Don't fill the place you have up with junk. If you do buy furniture, get used stuff as cheap as you can, if you are going to discard it.

Can you rent out an extra bedroom? There is a source of income to offset the high rents.

If you do try to cut out the car payments, put yourself in the leasing agents shoes. If you go bankrupt, he could miss a few payments while you use the car while you are in process. If you tell him that, that there is a chance you won't be able to make payments next month--AND you are talking with an attorney about bankruptcy, maybe they will cut a deal with you. Even if you paid them a couple of hundred a month or a one-time payment to get out of the contract, and bought used cars, it might pay off.

What is it you live on, $200k? $300k? If you budget and cut out some of the fat, I'm sure you'll be able to live on that, even if you live in NY, LA, Chicago, or Honolulu.
 
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